Suzuki GSXR 750 quad Throttle Body Install on 2.3 L Duratec

[Business]

This is amazing. Please, continue.

[jinstall]

Daily check in.

[jinstall]

Daily check in.

[JohnStranahan]

Best not to check in daily. Sign up for e-mail alerts. I wish that my alerts worked though.

I ordered a couple of 1/8 x 12 x 24 inch plastic ABS Sheets from Mcmaster.com
I also ordered 1/8 inch black ABS plastic welding rod there.

http://www.mcmaster.com/

I ordered a reasonably priced plastic welder from Harbor Freight. A desirable feature here is adjustable temp which this model has over their cheaper model. Now chances are I will have to fit the parts in the engine bay, trim, fit, trim then finish the back of the box off with the plastic sheet. The modifications will be underneath. The nice Suzuki top will show.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96712

I had used a glue previosly which did not stick very well to the ouside of the box repairing a seam. It stuck well to the inside gluing on the intake pipe. Perhaps I needed more surface prep (liquid primer). I did sand the outside.

[JohnStranahan]

I used some modified 2 inch rubber flexible 90's From Home Depot to clamp on to the throttle bodies and extend the runner length to 12.5 inches plus the 3.5 inches in the head. Sealing seems to be satisfactory. This should improve midrange. Total runner length now inclucing, the heads 3.5 inches, intake and throttle bodies, is about 16 inches on the two center cylinders. A couple inches shorter on the two end cylinders. If you have a runner length tuning program put some numbers in for me and see what I have for tuning. Using some basic Physics of standing waves, I come up with 1744 RPM for the third harmonic and 5262 RPM for the fourth. That should be good.
john

[Egz]

Hmm, this says differently.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/cgi-bin/intakeln?length=16

[JohnStranahan]

Eqz-Thanks. I am sure the programs results are more accurate. Now if you are willing, I can set this up with 9 inch total runner length. What would the RPM's be.
The 3rd and 4th harmonic are RPMs that I play in so this would be pretty good. I just wonder how that 2cnd harmonic (the strongest) would change. It is at unusable RPM now.


For 2nd harmonic, RPM range is from 7342 to 8910 with a pulse strength of 10 percent
For 3rd harmonic, RPM range is from 5517 to 6305 with a pulse strength of 7 percent
For 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 4301 to 4810 with a pulse strength of 4 percent

[Hocky]

I can't believe this project is still going. haha

[Egz]

Just change the last number in the URL for the length.

http://www.bgsoflex.com/cgi-bin/intakeln?length=9

Input length is 9 inches
For 2nd harmonic, RPM range is from 13053 to 15840 with a pulse strength of 10 percent
For 3rd harmonic, RPM range is from 9808 to 11209 with a pulse strength of 7 percent
For 4th harmonic, RPM range is from 7647 to 8551 with a pulse strength of 4 percent

Shorter is not your friend unfortunately.

[JohnStranahan]

Well. I expected shorter was not my friend. Its nice to have numbers. Thanks for the URL help. (I also expected the RPM for each harmonic to be higher than the last.) I like the numbers for the 16 inch runners. Thanks a lot. It was worth the effort to change to longer runners. This makes this intake considerably different than the cosworth single throttle body intake.

[JohnStranahan]

I puchased a plastic Welder from Harbor Freight Tools. It has a built in fan and a temperature control. I purchased white plastic ABS rods about 1/8 " in diameter from Harbor Freight and 3/16 or so inch black plastic ABS welding rod from MacMaster.com. The second bead with the black ABS matched my plastic better. You could see the rod melt and actually wet about 1/8 inch to either side of the bead. The bead is magnified on the screen. It is only about 1/8 inch wide. It came out nice. It is apparent from the beginning of the bead at right that I am getting good penetrations as well. Very similar to gas welding but it is much faster. Now the advantages over the 3M liquid glue product that I tried previously is that I can take my time with setup and then add beads as neccesary. The glue dried really fast. You only get one shot at it and then in 20 seconds it is hard. I was pleased. I wont be distorting the ABS much with this equipment. The disk came right from the air cleaner housing where I mounted my intake. I cut the disk out with a zip tool for tile.
There is a seam right under the weld. I could not break the weld by hand. This is good news. Close inspection reveals a good seal. I had trouble here with the glue.

Note that you can sand the bead smooth if you like.

The silver color is from an indelible marker.
john

[JohnStranahan]

Photo 11 shows the plastic manifold flange with one runner glued in place. The pipe came .025 over size. I could dry fit it by tapping with a hammer, so I decided not to reduce this size. I cleaned the hole and the pipe end with the cleaner. Let it almost dry. Applied the glue. Then I tapped the pipe in to touch the table. I rotated 1/8 turn to insure a 360 degree seal. It went very well. Only 1 inch of the pipe will show above the flange; on the bottom of the flange the pipe will be trimmed flush. Then I will port the engine side to fit my already made gasket. This will match it exactly to the head ports. The top will be ported to match the throttle bodies.
John

[JohnStranahan]

The manifold flange is ready for porting to match the head on this the engine side.


Here is the set of throttle bodies atop the short runners. The fit will be better by shortening the runners to between 1/2 and 3/4 inches. They are at the design height of 1 inch now. 1/2 inch should be sufficiently long to grip the rubber hose that I will use two connect the two assemblies. I will also gain clearance at the radiator by keeping the runner short. A side gain will be an increase in turbulence at idle by having the throttle plates close to the head.
Thick walled ABS black pipe will allow good port matching to the throttle bodies.
John

[paulhaskew]

that is some serious plastic... It's all coming together, keep it up!

[JohnStranahan]

Paulhaskew-Thanks for the post. The manifold is at 1 lb 12 ounces now. The throttle bodies are at 2 lbs 5 ounces. Things are getting pared down some more.

I trimmed the runner protrusion to 1/2 inch. This is ideal for fit of the throttle bodies and also leaves more room for the air box. I will mark the excess plastic pipe with silver sharpie marker and port it away both inside and ouside the throttle body bore.
John

[JohnStranahan]

I used a 1/4 inch Router bit in the Dremel with router base to remove the major parts of the excess OD on the black runners followed by the Drum sander and then a band file. Next the Id.
John

[JohnStranahan]

Outside of Intake Manifold is mostly complete save some finish sanding. Metal inserts will fill attachment holes. Threaded metal inserts will allow attachment of a couple of brackets to secure the throttle bodies to the flange in a more secure manner. Bottom clamps are Suzuki parts. This will be the top view of the Project in the engine compartment.

[JohnStranahan]

This photo shows a hot forged wire bracket I added to secure the throttle bodies to the manifold. There are three total (two on the other end). I made the bottom eye by heating 1/4 inch mild steel wire and hammering on the vise. This was the only way I could make the eye wide enough for 6 mm bolts at adequate thickness. A couple of small L brackets can be seen to secure the right side of the throttle bodies and the left side (on the pic) of the throttle linkage. I have now completed an adjustable idle stop and a full throttle stop at this point. Two ball studs will be added to pick up the ends of the Ford Throttle cables (green dots). The idle will be controlled by the stock ford Idle air control motor but these other two stops are necessary on metal throttle bodies.

The brackets not only secure the throttle body better than just the rubber tubes, but they create a nice truss of the whole assembly which should keep the manifold flat over time. I have some 5/16 wide by 2.5 inch worm-gear clamps(narrower than shown above) coming for a better fit of the clamps to the throttle bodies which have a slight taper. I will probably use these for the clamps to the manifold as well.

I used the long threaded inserts for three of these brackets. They worked just great. I drilled .9 inch deep blind holes (by 3/8 inch diameter). I threaded in the inserts with an allen wrench. This gave me nice steel threads for my 6 mm bolts. I was pleased.

The left side of the manifold in the pic will be down in the engine bay.
John

[jon.k]

Originally Posted by Z63R

Oreo, thank GAWD you've retained some of the stuff I seem to have forgotten... Well said, sir.



Meanwhile, back at the Bar D (for Duratec) Ranch...

Though the thread title says "quad throttle body" I don't see how an air metering device developed for a 750 cc displacement would benefit a 2261cc displacement especially when final power figures are taken into consideration...

Now, I haven't checked Mr. Stranahan's link, but let's say we're shooting for an even 200 at the Duratec's fly... Do Suzuki GSXR 750s make 200 HP? I honestly don't really know. I know that Hyabusas do, but they're almost twice the size as teh gixer.

An air INDUCTION device developed for a performance .75L engine will benefit a 2300CC engine based on the fact that it benefits the 750CC so much due to the mass amounts of air it takes in. The overall air intake diameter will be bigger than any single TB made for that car.

Try plugging one nostril on your nose and breathing in a full breath...... now unplug that nostril and breath in your full breath. See how much less time it took? Your engine does the same thing. Giving it "four nostrils" (hypothetically speaking) will allow it to get its fix ALOT faster. Maybe its time to ITB the SVT! LOL

Also, the busa is 165hp, not 200..... Thats as much as an SVT Focus (5hp less) with a 2.0L 10.2:1 Compresion engine...... in a 1.3L 11:1 compression engine with ITBs! Gixer 750s don't make near 200hp, but the fact that they weigh less than 500lbs , have higher compression, ITBs and an aggressive tune make them powerful bikes. My brother has the Gixer 1000 and THATS an impressive bike.... WOW.

Point is... a Gixxer 1000 or Busa will kick the **** out of pretty much any car you throw at it. within reason (none of this 1000HP twin turbo supra stuff lol)

I just wanted to say that I really love the fact that you're doing something that no one (that I know of) has done to their Performance Econobox Focus..... You've broken the bubble of 'normal modding' which is great imo. I honestly think that ITB setup is much more impressive and prestigious than a Turbo'd setup. Good on ya and best of luck with your project!!

ps. if you don't mind me asking, howmuch were all the parts so far. What is the total cost you've incurred on this project os far???

[jinstall]

Keep it up this is so cool to watch. I think I am going ot keep all the posts in a PPP and keep for later to see if I can make it work. But I am going at it blindly lol.

[JohnStranahan]

Thanks for the post and support guys. The project is proceeding well. I have reduced the length now between head to radiator of the project to 8 inches. I believe I have 9 inches available. It should fit. I'll put down some of the major costs
Used Throttle bodies $140 airbox used $25
Plastic and tooling for manifold $100
Nuts Bolts Clamps etc $100
Plastic and Plastic Welder for airbox mods $100
These are rough estimates. I'll provide more detail if I get it to work OK. Things look promising right now. I can hear that motor rev up when I pull that throttle linkage.

I plan to drill a 2 inch hole with the same bit I used on the manifold without coolant some time this week. I think it is going to work fine. This means you could build the thing yourself with a large drill press which usually include an angle plate. My dimensioned drawing can be used as is with the modification to shorten the tubes to 1/2 inch protrusion when done.

I tell you that I get a thrill just looking at this rig on the floor. It just plain looks powerful. Remember the main goal is to improve midrange by increasing air velocity near the head ports at part throttle. Autocross (ProSolo). Pic: Height above the glass is only 8 inches now. It should fit. Interior of manifold needs to be ported still. You can see 3 of the added 1/4 inch rod brackets. No angle iron please. Billet Aluminum would be OK but would add 5-6 hours to the project.
2.5 inch exhaust will come later. I am hoping to expand the manicat mouth to 2.5 inch and add a high flow cat as well. Thats another project. I have tooling in hand.

[EricR]

Wow, that looks nice. Really nice!

[JohnStranahan]

Thanks.

I ported the Intake manifold at the head to match the gasket dimensions which were taken directly from the cylinder head. I used a 1/4 inch router bit in the Dremel with Router Base to rough it in. Then I smoothed and radiused with a 1/2 inch diameter sand wheel in the Dremel. Finish sanding remains to be done. (drums are coming) Black ABS pipe location was excellent. This was a very fast operation in the plastic compared to porting aluminum or cast iron, both of which I have done. About 30 minutes.

[alk.3_st]

It looks amazing! Wow you went through a lot of work.
Talk about a unique focus.

[JohnStranahan]

Thanks. It will be unique. This is more like play though.


I then ported the Throttle body side of the intake manifold to match the throttle bodies 1.6 inch ID. I carried this ID through the center of the manifold to the previously ported area. I will smooth with a homade single flap wheel. I also made a 2 inch hole with the same bit that I used to make the holes for the black runner pipe, in the egr pipe area. This will give it complete access. I drilled this one without coolant as a test. It worked fine. I withdrew the bit to clean out chips about every 1/8 inch. The surface finish of the hole was satisfactory for a glued in intake manifold runner. The manifold is mostly complete. You can see a couple of the threaded inserts in this shot for the wire brackets. You can also see the smooth inserts that will take some of the compression load for the manifold attachment bolts. The manifold flange came in 1/16 inch over 1 inch thick. I will have to remove this from the engine side for proper operation of these inserts.
John