Suzuki GSXR 750 quad Throttle Body Install on 2.3 L Duratec

[JohnStranahan]

Focus WRC07
I would have thought that everyone with a Cosworth manifold would have a plastic one for sale. This is not the case. I could not find one. Nor could I find one in the junkyards that they would sell. I did find two complete engines. Instead I will make a short manifold from ABS plastic that I described in my previous post. My original plan was to make a short 2-3" manifold out of the Ford plastic one.

I received the adhesive today. It is on the expensive side, but you get a small drinking glass full of glue (6 ounces, 200 mL). This should be more than enough for the whole project. I also received the Spectre 4 inch plastic inlet tube with flange. The height of the tube is insufficient to use alone. Instead I plan to invert this part and glue it to the box with the 4240 3M Plastic Repair. This will make a nice solid mount for the Aluminum inlet. The goal is not to have constant vibration open up any seams that I made in this box.

The combined inlet area of these 42 mm throttle bodies is about 84mm if it were a single. This should be more than enough. What upgrade were you thinking about. If you make the throttle bodies or ports too big in diameter you will lose your charge velocity that helps the midrange out.

[JohnStranahan]

Air Intake Box is ready for glue. I put a cut down 4 inch plastic intake under the Aluminum intake to add strength and to fill the bottom two corners where the Aluminum intake flange lacked material. A couple of holes are left and will be filled with the 3M 4240 plastic mender. Also visible in this shot are the two islands that used to support the Suzuki air filter that were removed. Left over is a gap. This will be filled with the plastic mender from the back and then smoothed over on the front. Surfaces must be scuffed and treated with an ABS primer which I bought at Lowe's. This will dry leaving surface tacky. The glue and primer are best used outdoors.
John

[JohnStranahan]

Here is a picture after the glue up and a report on the glue. The 3M 4220 plastic mender comes in two large syringes. The 3M tool to squirt these is about $75 and is a good investement for a body shop. I cut two equal length dowels and used a standard caulk gun to push on the syringes. I sealed the two long seams along side the trumpets with one long smooth nice looking bead from the outside of the case using one of the self mixing tips. I smoothed the inside with my finger. This is really about all the time you have with this glue. Less than a minute before it starts to set up.
I used a second self mixing tip for the air inlet. I put a bead of sealer under the 4 inch plastic flange and on top of the plastic flange followed by the aluminum inlet and then four screws. I just barely got them tight before it all turned into a brick.
With the tips used up I then mixed the glue on a piece of heavy polyethylene. It is very liquid when it comes out, mixes and starts to stiffen very quickly. I applied it like putty to the inside of the plastic flange to smooth the air transition into the box. This worked OK but was not very smooth when I finished. I sanded it smooth and rounded off the corners. It sands and feels like a hard rubber when cured. The outside looks very much like the previous photo. Not much mess there.
It may be that Suzuki offers replacement trumpets at a reasonable price. This will allow some length and diameter tuning. Mine are a bit large in diameter, so maybe they are from the 1000 cc bike.
You might think this is a lot of work on an airbox until you price one from an aftermarket supplier.
John

[PCP_TwilightZX3]

i'm actually getting excited about this project i've ben lurking on here for a few days

[JohnStranahan]

Thanks for the interest.

I may have some help Christmas week. We will pull off the intake manifold and make drawings of several mounting surfaces. We will cut a paper gasket/template for the heads ports and threaded holes, also the idle air valve surface, and we can remove the MAP/IAT sensor. With manifold removed I can lower the assembly in place to see better if it will fit in its current configuration. Then we can put the stock manifold back and I can finish my work at my leisure with the drawings and detail. This would be easier with a spare manifold that has all those goodies installed. I would still be interested in one.

I found a PCV kit with an inline, with 3/8 inch fittings, filter at Jegs. I might investigate it some more before I decide what to do with the PCV air.

Things are still a go.
John

[pitchblack23]

Man this is a great thread

[orionlion82]

i know i was a nay-sayer earlier, but im not above eating some crow.
gotta pay to play.

its like im watching the wheel be reinvented.
and ya know what? you might just be on to something!

[Egz]

Originally Posted by JohnStranahan

The 3M tool to squirt these is about $75 and is a good investement for a body shop. I cut two equal length dowels and used a standard caulk gun to push on the syringes.

Yea, that's the trick I used when I used that 2-part plastic epoxy stuff.

[JohnStranahan]

Eqz-Thanks for the help that worked out well.

Here is a pic of the new intake manifold. Well you have to use some imagination. This is a piece of ABS plastic Billet 1 x 4 x 24 From McMaster-Carr.com It has a little extra width and thickness to add rigidity. I plan to correct some of my spacing difference between the port and throttle bodies in this first inch with a porting tool. The ports will match the head. Coming out of this piece will be some 1.75 OD black pipes. The pipe is extra thick at 1/4 inch. I will use this thickness and some recontouring of the pipe to correct any remaining spacing difference. It will be a two tone manifold with black pipes.
You can use any tools to work this plastic that you can with wood or metal including a skill saw, hole saw, router, Sanding Drums, Drills etc. The pipes will be glued in using the dissolving type of glue and primer from the hardware store.

[JohnStranahan]

We hooked up the SCT unit with the included livewire program to the Focus to look at a couple of things.

MAP-we looked at the absolute manifold vacuum to determine if I am porting it correctly. At idle it read 9.8 then decreased gradually to 7.6 at 4900 RPM. This tell me a port well behind the throttle plates will be a good place to feed vacuum to this unit. That is where my rearmost ports are located.

IMRC-Intake Manifold runner control- This is the output of the solenoid. It switched from 0 to 1 right at 3000 RPM.
IMRCAD-Intake Manifold runner control AD count. This is the ouput of the position sensor that is contained in the vacuum motor that runs the runner control. I monitored this to see how fast was the response to an opening signal. It appears from further study that this sensor reads open or closed only. I can't get speed of opening data from it. There is bound to be some delay in the Vacuum motor. I don't want to feel a step in the power delivery right at 3000 RPM. I also may be able to tune this for my application by using stock Suzuki vaccuum ports just in front of the throttle plates.

We could not find an output for the IMTV intake manifold tuning valve (tumble plates). I believe they open at 1200 RPM.

I have a very adjustable bellcrank from Mr. Gasket that I plan to use to hook these vacuum motors to my secondary throttle plate shaft.

IAT-Intake air temperature included with the MAP sensor. 74F actual signal 617 This is probably mV.
98 F 486. This will tell me if the Suzuki IAT is compatible electrically if I test it with similar temps.

EGR-I had another discussion with my Ford Tech. The egr is only active at cruise. Not at full throttle nor idle. Full throttle power will not be affected.

[Egz]

Originally Posted by JohnStranahan

IMRC-Intake Manifold runner control- This is the output of the solenoid. It switched from 0 to 1 right at 3000 RPM.
IMRCAD-Intake Manifold runner control AD count. This is the ouput of the position sensor that is contained in the vacuum motor that runs the runner control. I monitored this to see how fast was the response to an opening signal. It appears from further study that this sensor reads open or closed only. I can't get speed of opening data from it. There is bound to be some delay in the Vacuum motor.

Can you look at the time stamps from when the command was sent, and the response was recieved? That would give you an idea of how quickly it operates.

[JohnStranahan]

Ok. Thanks for the thought. I did that; here are the results. If you look at the runner butterfly opening command (IMRC open) and the runner butterfly position readout (IMRC AD) graphically they are almost superimposed. Very fast reaction.

If I take a look at the microsoft excel file that contains the original numbers I can get more info. It looks like there is a .1 second delay from the relay opening until the vacuum motor sends a butterfly open signal. I don't know how far the vacuum motor needs to move to send this signal as all the linkage is hidden from view. That seems like enough time lag.

[JohnStranahan]

There was enough wire in the Suzuki Fuel Injection Harness to connect a female plug (and a set of wires from a different plug) to the stock Suzuki Throttle position sensor. My tests showed that electrically the Ford and Suzuki TPS are very similar. The wires will need to reach the drivers side of the manifold which is pictured. They will be spliced into the Ford Harness with solder and then adhesive lined heatshrink leaving the Ford TPS plug available as well.
Copper pipe is for EGR. White nipple is for idle air feed. Slightly tan nipple right next to the wire harness will feed the MAP/IAT sensor or sensor Vacuum Accumulator (that would need to be made).
I did find a PCVfilter with 3/8 inch inlet and outlet from Vortech at Summitracing.com. This will be used to filter the crankcase feed which is behind the stock manifold into the idle air stream.
Also pictured is the throttle cam. Our Ford throttle cables are terminated with a ball connection. I will have to add a couple of balls to the Suzuki Throttle control hardware and may be able to get it to work with few changes. One outer ball for the cruise control one inner ball for the throttle pedal. With any luck we will Remove and Replace the stock manifold this Thursday and draw diagrams of the various gasket surfaces so I can fabricate the new intake manifold.

Height of this assembly to the throttle body edge is about 8.25 inch. It looks like it will fit with a short intake manifold. The EGR manifold and vacuum hose manifolds look like they will package neatly without interfering with the engine. They are also mostly invisible from the top view.

I have several components to mount. Two butterfly control solenoids. One Idle air Control Valve. I am thinking of adding a piece of brushed finish 1/4 inch T6 aluminum plate to the top of the manifold about 3 inches wide just to give me a mounting surface and also maybe to dress up the inner hose connections to the plastic manifold. The four throttle bodies will remain exposed.
John

[arty]

Bump Any new developments to show us this week? Bump

[Focus_wrc07]

Arty, he's probably been busy with the holidays, and is trying to find time to do more.

Once more is done, I'm pretty sure he'll inform us.

[JohnStranahan]

We removed the stock intake manifold today to take measurements. The first pic shows a gasket/template that I will use to make the intake manifold flange. You can tap these holes out with a ballpeen hammer tapping lightly on the edge of each hole. The sharp edge of the casting will cut the hole.

The proximity of the power steering pump on the passenger side and starter motor underneath will require some changes. I will need to run the throttle bodies upside down so that the TPS sensor and secondary throttle plate shaft will have some space to operate in. The airbox will need to be smaller. It is hard to see this ahead of time untill you empty the space you plan to use.

More pics here
http://journals.aol.com/johnstranahanb/RebarrelingandHome-ShopMachining/#Entry1633

[JohnStranahan]

Here is a pic of the MAP/IAT Manifold Ablsolute Pressure, Intake air Temperature Sensor. The MAP seals on the green O-ring through a hole in the intake manifold. On the right is the Idle Air Control Valve. I plan to incorporate both of these items. The Map will go in a Vacuum Accumulator can that will be housed inside the Intake air box. This should give satisfactory temps. The can will be fed ported Vacuum from near the back of the throttle bodies.

[Focus_wrc07]

John, thanks for the update. I appreciate it. Keep up the good work, and happy holidays to you.

The pics you've posted look great, and hopefully this is going to work.

[JohnStranahan]

WRC07, arty. Thank you for your interest and support. Here is the latest pic. I cut the airbox down where it would fit the space. It looks like I can use a 2 inch manifold along with the short rubber trumpets on the susuki air box. These are available individually for about $10.00 each. The total space between the head and the radiator support is only about 8.25 inches. I have had to scale back the volume of the intake box some. Things were looking pretty grim for a while, but I think with some chages to the airbox it could still work.

Notice in the pic I have used the EGR pipe for clearance on the radiator support.


John

[Focus_wrc07]

DANG!!!! That's a tight fit there John. Do you think flex issues will have play with the intake, and everything? Just curious.

[JohnStranahan]

It is a tight fit. There is a lower manifold bolt that will eventually hold the very bottom of the air box to prevent up and down flex. In the last pic the throttle bodies are about in their ideal position. 2 inches off the head. The air box will have to be sized according to the space available. If you look back at the inside of the airbox there are two sets of trumpets. Long and Short. The short ones will be needed. Anyway think of this as a work in progress rather than a guaranteed to work at this point.
John

[Focus_wrc07]

John, that's very understandable, and I hope that this work in progress is going to work.

It may be re-inventing the wheel as some say, but it's a good concept for those who truly like to do things themselves.

I hope that the lower manifold bolt will be enough on the flex issues, but I was referring to being more concerned about the flexing of the airbox like you've stated the possible solution for, and the motor/trans. flexing.

[polarisman14]

I'm sure if you wanted to CAD up some blueprints or something (assuming it works) that people would be willing to buy the design off of you, too...cut costs a bit that way