Crower Stage III cams on a DD...

[fhg959]

.... anyone running stage 3 cams on a daily driven focus? what's your experience with them?

[ehancock]

There is a a TON of information on this topic if you go back and look through the duratec tuning chat.

First, I have no personal experience with the matter. That being said, in all of the old threads it was recommended not to use bigger than crane stage 2's for a daily driver. I do not remember the crower stage 3 specs off of the top of my head, but you'll probably need new pistons with valve reliefs in them.

[tallguy2.3]

^x2 brotha

New pistons will allow you to even consider stage 3's.

[fhg959]

I know there's info out there... I'm lazy, that's all and I rather have the opinion of someone who had actually used stage III cams in his/her daily driven focus than just hear "it is not recommended". I want to know why would it be a pain in the ass to use them in a dd car; because of the idle? low end lack of power? Also, I plan to use aftermarket pistons with valve reliefs so that wouldn't be a problem.

[biscuitninja]

959...

You've never really driven a stick car with a big cam have you? Really....

HUGE cams usually kill bottom end and only have upper midrange to high RPM power. They aren't really running right until you go WOT and really aren't fast cars unless you are killing it.

There are trades to the car also. In stop and go traffic cars like these are not really confortable to drive because your idle quality is usually poor as well as you have to slip the clutch alot. So you're either revving the car alot to keep it from stalling OR you're revving the pee out of it to keep it in its powerband.... this usually causes heating issues, results in poor gas milage and just overall not very road worthy performance.

Just look at all the old guys, they stick a relatively mild cam, big torque, gears, maybe a little boost and they end up with major fun cars. They won't go to 9000rpms, but they will be easy to drive and still produce decent power.

[fhg959]

Dear stealth killer ninja,


You are right, I have never driven a 4 banger with "HUGE" cams... However, I have driven a couple V8s, and they certainly are a pain in the ass to drive on stop and go traffic, I had never had overheating issues however. Also, I'm being specific when I ask about crower cams, because according to some experts in here and other forums as well, from the options available for the duratec (Cosworth, Crane, etc) crower are the "mildest" of all, that is, a Crower stage III is not as agressive as a Cosworth stage III. Of course I really appreciate all the input you guys are giving me (and keep them coming please), but that being said, I'm looking for someone who at least is running stage III crowers (daily driven or not) to see how bad the bottom end is.

Sincerely,

FHG959

[tallguy2.3]

[fhg959]

That doesn't look that bad at idle... I wonder how it behaves while actually driving.

[KevinZX3]

I don't think that you have to change pistons with crower 3. There is more lift on my crane 1 actually...

[afraziaaaa]

You do need to change pistons. I checked this with my piston manufacturer.

[fhg959]

Originally Posted by KevinZX3

I don't think that you have to change pistons with crower 3. There is more lift on my crane 1 actually...

Regardless of if I have to change them or not, I will change them. I'll be increasing the compression... but with all the comments I've recieved so far, I think I'm going to stick with stage II just to play it safe.

[FocusSportVP]

Originally Posted by afraziaaaa

You do need to change pistons. I checked this with my piston manufacturer.

[FocusSportVP]

Originally Posted by tallguy2.3

That car is already warmed up based on the Coolant gauge. If that idle needs to be set that high to keep the car running when warm, you will really use a lot of gas if you do any kind of traffic driving. You will be surprised. Also, I've worked with plenty of cars that have their idle set that high and the coolant really gets nice and hot. So you need to have your fans kick on earlier and they will be on quite often so be aware that you'll need to make sure that if they burn out, you aren't caught off guard.

[fhg959]

^^^^ Thanks a lot I want the car to be reliable as a dd. I'm just going to stick with stage II.

[daveyboy]

Anyone make a nitrous specific cam.

[fhg959]

^^^ Are you asking? Making a Request? or just let it me know? If you are asking, Crower can make any custom cam you want, Zex or Comp aswell.

[biscuitninja]

Originally Posted by daveyboy

Anyone make a nitrous specific cam.

I think Crower makes a specific grind, but i haven't seen it in a good long while.

Depends upon how much you plan on shooting. I think in a street application even a stage one or two would be adequate. I've driven cars with mild to wild in nitrous applications and definitely mild cams seem to work well on the street. Normal manners and then ungodly strong power/torque at the push of a button.

You get the top end power as well as the midrange rush. Don't want too much on the bottom end (seen alot of FWD cars snap axles with sticky tires and big hits of nitrous or you just sit there nuking the tires )

good luck
-bix

[daveyboy]

Just listened to the video of the stage three cams. I like it alot. I dont think I would have any problem driving that on the street. Well maybe not commuting as much as I do but I would definatly enjoy it.

[Dtec04]

Hey thats my car!!! That was on the base tune from walter on my na build. The bugs were eventually figured out and never had any problems with it. It was fun to drive and I did like the idle. But other then crazy torque response, turbo is the way to go in my opinion.

[fhg959]

^^^ So, was that your DD car? who well did it drive?

[Dtec04]

That motor was 11.6:1 compression with cosi mani. I tried stage 1's and stage 3's crane cams. To be honest the stage 1's felt faster.... The stage 3's drove fine once walter worked on the tune a bit. Other then the idle it drove close to stock. The power differences were pretty much exactly how biscuitninja described. I say get crane stage 1's if you still can. You can spread the overlap apart to make more power and get the funky idle if thats what you like.

[fhg959]

What I'm trying to achieve is to squeeze the most power staying N/A and also to be able to drive it daily. As I said, I'll be getting 12:1 compression pistons aswell as the cosworth intake mani (already have that). I guess just right beforfe the final assembly, I'll ask the one who would be tunning the car which would be the best option.

[biscuitninja]

^^ If you're going to put in high compression pistons, have you thought about doing a 2.5L? That would probably give you at least a 30-40hp boost and same amount of torque boost (<--that torque you would REALLY feel) without going to crazy cams. If you decide to shoot a little 30-50 shot it will REALLY wake up that high compression motor.

The only thing to worry about would be the clutch, gears and tires.

[fhg959]

^^^ Yes I did, I considered the 2.3L and 2.5L engines but as I explained in other thread, the category I want to race in requires engine size equal to or less than 1998 cc, so by building a 2.0L engine I'm going to be at the top of the category (big fish in small pond). If I build a 2.1L engine or bigger I'll be racing against 3.5L's, something I'd like to avoid.

[biscuitninja]

Sound good then! Just how radical are the other cars in the catagory? Do they have to be street legal?

-bix