focus challenge handicap - best tires

[BadIdea]

Nice work to all who put the focus challenge stuff together.

Has anyone figured out what the best setup is to win with the handicap system?

I need to buy some tires and it's between the khumo mx and toyo ra-1.

[Draxas]

I vouch for the Kumho MX as I have used them successfully in all but the first Focus Challenge. I feel they give the car great grip and I dont have to deal with the 3 second penalty of the R-Compounds. Now, depending on what track you run, it may be an advantage to run R-Compounds if you think your time will be greater than 3 seconds better by using them. That way, the penalty doesnt hurt you and you actually come out ahead.

If we were to race at a 3+ mile track (or high speed like WIllow Springs Raceway), I would run R-Compounds.... This is one area we will be working on in 2005 though, to adjust handicaps for each track we visit. However, it is difficult to know what to change if we have no lap data from a wide array of Foci.

At least when we go back to Spring Mountain in November 2005, we will have the data from these cars at this most recent event.

I would suggest to run a 16" rim with 225/50 Kumho MX tires on it though. I am currently using 205/50 15" tires and I am itching to get some more rubber under this car. That alone may get me another .5-1.0 second.


Nikolas

[belacyrf]

Assuming I ever get time.. the handicap system will be altered a little bit.

We'll go into more detail about tires, and we'll also create what is called a handicap "factor" for certain tracks. Because some tracks require better tires than other.

R compounds will be more benefitial on certain tracks than on other tracks.

But right now, the best tires to win with the current handicap are the best street tires you can find.

[SlickShoes]

I'd say Azenis or MX's probably. Then again, I believe Hoosiers are currently still in that same 3 sec range as RA1's.

[BadIdea]

Well since the mx's are $77 in the 205/40/17 size it's a no brainer.

Ah, so those handicaps are in seconds based on that one track?

[SlickShoes]

Yes, the handicaps are based on seconds applied to laptimes at Streets of Willow Springs. The plan is to use the Honda Challenge guys (since there are tons of them that have run a lot of tracks) average lap times between all the different tracks out there to generate a multiplier. Then we can pretty much adjust the handicap system to any track.

Or at least that was the plan last I heard.

[BUR_ZX3]

I concur on the "good street tires" thought. Nikolas was INSANE on his MXs last weekend.

I did very well on my Non M+S PZero Neros.... The Azenis are up there too.

As for the adjustments for next year. We'll definately need to adjust each track's "coefficients" for handling vs. Speed. Spring Mountain is much more of a handling track... so the handicapping should theoretically weigh higher on the coilovers. Plus we need to weigh more on suspension anyway.

Heh.. its a work in progress

[CharlesWA]

Costco can now fill your tires with nitrogen for you. What would that do to the handicap? What if I had to adjust the pressure and only had 50 or 75% nitrogen in my tires?

I still don't understand your handicapping system. It seems like you have WAY too large a variety of combinations of drivers and parts and WAY too few data points to single out specific items and apply a penalty or credit to them. Creating a multiplier based on the performance of a group of Hondas doesn't quite add up either. Oh well. I'm not in SoCal so I guess this doesn't really apply to me anyway. I'll just go back to autocrossing in the NorthWest with a dry weather PAX index created by some guys in the midwest. Only I think I'll run with it in the wet.

[BUR_ZX3]

Chuck-

It ain't perfect... but it really was geared towards the Streets of Willow Springs... and on that system, it really did seem to yeild the expected results.

What we're looking to do is to adjust the factors on a "sliding scale" for each track.... Based on the number of turns, the length of the straights, the overall length of the track, etc.

The factors to compare with the Honda Challenge guys is the relevant times. If hondas are turning in 2 Min on Track A, and 3 Min on Track B... then Foci that turn in 1:50s on track A should be a little less than 3 Min on track B... make sense?

[SlickShoes]

Costco can now fill your tires with nitrogen for you. What would that do to the handicap? What if I had to adjust the pressure and only had 50 or 75% nitrogen in my tires?

I still don't understand your handicapping system. It seems like you have WAY too large a variety of combinations of drivers and parts and WAY too few data points to single out specific items and apply a penalty or credit to them.

WHO CARES! This isn't meant to be an overly analyzed uber competitive system. Everyone that runs knows that, and yet everyone still has a ton of fun. If we tried nickle and diming all the ridiculously small things it would do nothing but start fights. This is geared towards daily driven street cars, not spec racers. Prizes for each place are a number of raffle tickets towards donated things. So even if with your handicap you come in first, you aren't guaranteed anything (ask Lorin ). I goal is to not "cheat" anyone out of having fun and a chance to win little prizes and things, not straight competition.

And regarding the Honda Challenge times, absolutely it applies. The Honda Challenge cars on average have similar power to weight as us, yet usually have much better drivers. So as Todd said, if their times are 50% longer at track B, we can roughly expect to see our times a similar +50%. This has been to be correct time and time again. It would be different if we were using something like the American Iron series times that have ridiculously high power/weight.

Again, its not meant to be a perfect system taking every variable into account, and we know there will always be those few people that just can't understand this. But for the rest of the people that show up, it adds just enough friendly competition to really make it fun.

[BUR_ZX3]

Quite frankly.. if you wanna put helium in your tires... go right ahead!

[AT1]

Quite frankly.. if you wanna put helium in your tires... go right ahead!

Cool idea!!! Make the car lighter=better power to weight ratio while at the same time decreasing the amount of unsprung weight!!!! I WILL OWN YOU ALL!!! MUhaaaaaahaaaaa

[belacyrf]

Very simply put..

the handicap system is to make things "more fair" but not perfectly fair... Take a look at nationals and G Stock or H Stock (I forget which). How come all the top cars are mini's? Because the system is NOT FAIR! It's impossible to account for everything.

Personally I think our handicapping system is pretty darn good. But more importantly it accomplishes what we ask for. Assuming equal drivers.. the better car wins. Assuming equal cars, the better driver wins, and regardless of car and driver.. everyone should have fun!