Information on the 05-07 Focus ST

[MrBirdman330]

And I thought a Brickwall was hard to argue with.

[SVT3658]

Originally Posted by Egz

But there is nothing that is unique about the ST that isn't covered by any other forum!

Engine: Practically identical to all other Duratecs, both 2.0l and 2.3l. Forum = Duratec tuning
Exhaust: Same layout as every other Focus. Forum = Duratec tuning
Rear disc brakes: Same as AdvancTrac brakes. Forum: Tires/Wheels/Brakes
Suspension: Same parts found on other Focuses. Forum = Suspension
Interior: Different colored/fabric parts based on the same parts in other Focuses; interchangeable. Forum = Interior
Exterior: Different colored/stylized parts based on the same parts in other Focuses; interchangeable. Forum = Exterior
ST admiration: Owners like their ST and want to talk about how much the like owning one. Forum = Team Pitstop

There isn't one thing on a ST that is unique enough to warrent its own forum. Forums are a way to arrange discussion so that related topics are together, and unique discussions are separated out to reduce confusion. What possible ST conversation would be out of place in the current layout as it is right now that would confuse non-ST owners?

Word.

They're too stuck on the fact that the SVT has its own section. There's an SVT section, so therefore we must have an ST one too....

[cobrawannabe cdw27]

LOOK PAST THE PARTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We still have A LOT to learn about the production of the car. We're not sure what packages were availablw when, and how many were even made. We have no build numbers, but we do have ways to track down the numbers. We have no registry to see the general concentration of ST on the continent, and we don;t even know haw many are in each country. Since the mk 1.5 Focus was such a transitin for the platform, many cars of the same years have different parts on them, depending on even which WEEK the car was built.

Our forums would not be about parts. It would be about the history, production, sale, resale, and conversion of the cars. There is a lot more to a car than what parts are on it...

Where do we go to learn all of this without splitting into countless threads and taking overat least one forum? We need a place to discuss and organize our thoughs and information.

[SVT3658]

The only way to make your point is to prove you need a forum. So do what you need to in order to gather your info, and if you do begin to overtake a forum then resubmit your idea to the Mods. They've made it clear they don't think a new forum is necessary, so you need to prove it to them you do!

And if they do make a new sub-forum for you guys, it won't be hard to pull all relevant info and move the threads into the new forum. That's what they did with the ECU forum...once it was made Randy went back and found old threads pertinent to ECU tuning and moved relevant threads into the ECU forum.

[cobrawannabe cdw27]

Well, we already have. We took over two exhaust threads, then finally decided to start a roll call. We (I), then requested the new forum, and a new thread popped up in the very subfrum we would like to be a part of. The interest is rising about the car, and as thread quickly grow, it is getting tough to track down all the info.

[rejectZX3]

Well ... being neither an SVT or a ST owner ... I'll add my $.02.

What I am to understand is that the ST guys want a subforum to themselves so that they can try to track down and take note of every detail of their cars. Based on the need for a place to unify and track down all tidbits of possible information.

I want to know why? Why do we need yet another subforum based on those needs? Why not have a subforum for every minor tweak along the way then?

- '05's had old suspension, but new exterior. They need a subforum for thei minor differences.
- '06-'07's had the suspension changes. They need a subforum.
- '08's had the one year only couple bumper treatment and a more powerul 2.0 with DBW. They need a subforum

Where does it stop? The SVTs have legit different parts that in way correspond to parts on other American Focus available. And in my opinion, they barely need their own subforum.

Maybe you ST guys haven't noticed, but most of the Duratec Tuning forums is for you guys ... hell, even in the subtitle of the section, the 2.0 is an afterthought.

If the group of you can't make and maintain a couple of threads in the needed areas. How are you going to maintain an entire subforum?

If you prove you guys need a subforum and can maintain a subforum ... I am sure they mods will make it happen. Crying about it and calling other Focus owners snobby makes the whole group look immature.

[cobrawannabe cdw27]

Holy God, this isn't about the changes in the car alone. THIS IS ABOUT THE ENTIRE CAR. There were so many changes made to the car during it's short 3 years, and so many of those were made over the stretch of months, that it's tough to keep track of all the information. It's also very cool and intersting to try and track down the history of a model's production and execution down to the T. We're just asking for a place to o that!

You basically flew in on a three-legged horse and started spewing nonsense right there....

[rejectZX3]

Okay so ... what is so different in your 2006 ST from a 2005 or a 2007 car?

You say there are all of these changes yet somehow I hadn't really heard of many.

I mean this as an honest question, I would like to know what changed between the three years that warrants this much conversation.

[SVT3658]

Seriously cobra, just start gathering info in the ST Owners Group. That way it's all accounted for in one place. Anyone can make a thread in a user group and continually add to it, so get crackin'!


The only thread in there is some poor, lonely ST owner wondering if anyone out there to join him in the user group. Go tell him how unique his car really is


edit:

BTW, my user group is kicking your user group's ass

[Sport Tech]

Originally Posted by SVT3658

Seriously cobra, just start gathering info in the ST Owners Group. That way it's all accounted for in one place. Anyone can make a thread in a user group and continually add to it, so get crackin'!


The only thread in there is some poor, lonely ST owner wondering if anyone out there to join him in the user group. Go tell him how unique his car really is


edit:

BTW, my user group is kicking your user group's ass

This is a very intresting thread!!! Did you guys look at the first post???
Can you say Highjack

This is a very good question... Forget all the arguing about your opinion on the car - that is not the point.

There's a definite lack of mentioning of the ST when we are talking about special Focuses. There are way lot more similarities to other models on the (Sony, Kona, Street Edition, S2 and Mach Audio Edition) than the ST vs other models.

Why are those there and nothing on the ST? The ST must have really ratled the pecking order

BTW Where is the ST owner's group located under?

[MrBirdman330]

This is why I'm not saying anymore due to a thread hijack.

[SVT3658]

Originally Posted by Sport Tech

There's a definite lack of mentioning of the ST when we are talking about special Focuses. There are way lot more similarities to other models on the (Sony, Kona, Street Edition, S2 and Mach Audio Edition) than the ST vs other models.

Why are those there and nothing on the ST? The ST must have really ratled the pecking order

Those came out in the first generation of the Focus, and they were all lumped in with each other in the Statement Cars section. They had many things, option- and feature-wise, that no other Focus had. They didn't warrant a whole new forum each, so they all went in there.

BTW Where is the ST owner's group located under?

http://forums.focaljet.com/groups/st-owners-club.html

And look at that, someone (other than cobra....the one who most adamantly proclaimed the ST's difference from other Foci ) took the initiative and made a thread to start keeping track of the info for the ST. Looks like you found the user group already and wasted no time putting it to good use!

[Sport Tech]

Thanks I did find it! I was looking for it before I logged on and it wasn't there at all. So if someone is looking for info w/o being registered they won't find it.

But after loggin in... I was able to find it under social groups.
I like your idea of advertizing it in your signature... I should do the same. I was up last night working on it... talk about red-eyes today

As for the statement cars - I don't really understand what that actually means.

I remember seeing the sony editions and the SE when they started showing up in the dealers (pretty sure it was before 05)... & off course the 100 year celebration (all black w/ the 100 year celeb stick on).

But as for 2nd gen Focus (05-07) I don't think there were nothing else, but the ST. I am correct in this?

In my view what is missing is not necessarily a seperate focus ST sub-forum... but a mentioning of the different "specials" that the Focus had along the years.

[shortbusno27]

all i know is i love driving my ST and for some reason i spend more time driving in it than talking about it and finding out information about it.

i know alot about it and i know a little less about the SVT. but for me, the ST was my choice, and i'm still happy with that choice 12k miles later, and i believe i still will be till i decide to move on to my next car.

i have thought about getting an svt as a second car, but my ST does just fine being my only car.

when i had an 01 ZX3 i was in love with the idea of getting an SVT. but then i read about the ST and saw one for sale, i thought maybe the wider torque band and extra 2 doors might have more utility to me than extra horsepower, less torque and an extra gear to shift through. (not to mention the D23 has a timing chain and the oil filter is super easy to get to, i know very minor things but they make a difference to me)

granted, SVTs are amazing pieces of machinery and they look beautiful, for me, an ST was my choice. whether we really need our own ST sub forum or not is obviously debatable but i dont think it'd be a bad idea.

honestly, if i didnt drive an ST i would have probably tried to find a ZX5 SVT and i'd probably be driving that by now.

[DigitalGT]

I have a badass SVT 5 door........and it's better than any ST I've ever heard about.

Seriously though. Is this such a big deal? I've long said that I wished the SVT had come with a hotted up version of the D23 instead of the Zetec. When my car was completely stock, I COULD NOT catch a stock D23 ZX3 until the 1/8th mile mark (drag strip of course ).

The SVT is a different car. It's an SVT first...and a Focus second. Where as the ST is a Focus first..and an ST second. There was no ST team working on the ST car....it simply received the benefit of the SVT team's experience and parts bin. The ST is cool. I'd love to own one. But stock for stock, it simply is not top of the heap.....nor anywhere near as far a departure from a regular focus as the SVT is.

BTW I think I it's about damned time for a 5 door forum........yanno because they're so different and all

[cobrawannabe cdw27]

Well, guys, all sarcasm aside, I think there have been some very good points and questions brought up. I appreciate all the effort put forth by DigitalGT for the Focus community, and all his contributions to the community (especially so early on!) will be taken advantage of!

As far as the changes gone through by the ST, there are many to list...
-Options availability (interior groups and such)
-Spring rates
-Ball joints
-Exhaust changes

The list goes on. The 05-07 ST was FAR from a cookie cutter for the exact reason many would think, the car was never sent to a different building for it's modifications. But, it was pulled off the assembly line and hand-modified. All cars from 05-07 were originally assembled with standard parts, most notably the 2.0 motor. That had to be specifically pulled out of a car when an order for an ST came in. The reason the estimated build numbers are so low for the ST is because they were special order only. Either a customer or a dealership had to request an ST; if an ST wasn't requested, an ST wasn't built.

[DigitalGT]

Originally Posted by cobrawannabe cdw27

I appreciate all the effort put forth by DigitalGT for the Focus community, and all his contributions to the community (especially so early on!) will be taken advantage of!

Thanks bro! But I think you give me far too much credit. Granted, I believe from what I've seen on [FJ] alone, that I have probably the one of most robust enthusiast/tuner Zetecs in existence, but what I've put down for power has been solely a limitation of the blower itself. I'm NOWHERE near the top of the heap........nor will I probably ever be. I doubt, though I've tried, that my advice and/or experiences have had any bearing on the performance Focus segment.

Originally Posted by cobrawannabe cdw27

The list goes on. The 05-07 ST was FAR from a cookie cutter for the exact reason many would think, the car was never sent to a different building for it's modifications. But, it was pulled off the assembly line and hand-modified. All cars from 05-07 were originally assembled with standard parts, most notably the 2.0 motor. That had to be specifically pulled out of a car when an order for an ST came in. The reason the estimated build numbers are so low for the ST is because they were special order only. Either a customer or a dealership had to request an ST; if an ST wasn't requested, an ST wasn't built.

I've never truly bashed on an ST because I think, for all intents and purposes, that it was Ford's way of trying to bring forth an SVTish Focus after SVT essentially stopped existing. That said, the proof is in the pudding. The ST shares the same engine, ECU, and tuning as a regular Focus. Granted it came equipped with better hardware and came very very damn close to the SVTF in terms of overall performance.....(in some respects, it exceeded it)....but at the end of the day, the SVT reigns supreme.......though be it by a very small margin.

The ST has been and will be a very interesting and desirable trim line......but that's what it is.......a trim line. Not a model. I know I know it sounds snobbish but that's not how I intend it to sound. It's basically trying to compare a 350Z Track model to a 370Z. The 370, much like the ST hadn't been thought of when the 350Z Track, like the SVT, were/was put into production.

My official position, does the ST "need" it's own forum? No.....it really doesn't. Is it going to hurt anyone if it does? Again, no.

I love my SVT and I willingly acknowledge that the ST is DAMN close to it......but it's not going to hurt my feelings, nor should it really hurt anyone else's, if the ST gets it's own forum.

I think it would be really cool if the ST owners had their own forum. There is nothing like camaraderie......especially in such a nameless/faceless domain like teh interwebz. I honestly think though, that despite a few suspension/interior threads, that an ST forum would essentially mirror the Duratec Tuning forum. I'm really not sticking up for the SVT forum either. I'd be perfectly happy to see the SVT forum listed as a sub-forum of the Zetec Tuning Forum. Same thing goes foe the ST crowd.

[Sport Tech]

Originally Posted by DigitalGT

The ST shares the same engine, ECU, and tuning as a regular Focus. Granted it came equipped with better hardware and came very very damn close to the SVTF in terms of overall performance.....(in some respects, it exceeded it)....but at the end of the day, the SVT reigns supreme.......though be it by a very small margin.

The ST has been and will be a very interesting and desirable trim line

I appreciate the non-bashing dialoge... the problem is we always get to compare with the SVTf. That is not helpful, because in an attempt to make the point that the ST is comparable to the SVTf, it always will seem like a dig on the SVT - and let's face it we all appreciate and love the SVTf.

But I disagree with some points (above) and hope to clarify some of them.

The ST does not share the engine, as tuning as the regular Focus.

-The ST is the only model of the Focus that used the 2.3 engine in it's line up. (yes, the Ultra low emissions D23 was used in earlier years, but in 05-07 the D23 used was different and exclusive to the ST ).

-The tunning is also not the same as the regular Focus... it was even different in the 07 (allowed for improved gas mileage and power) as opposed to the earlier ST's.

-& finally the ST is not a trim line... Ford refers to it as a "model" not a trim line.

[Egz]

Factory tunes in the end mean nothing, since they all get adjusted the same way. There is nothing drasticly different in tuning the ST 2.3 over the PZEV 2.3. Maybe if the ST had a completely different ECU, but its the same (with very minor engineering changes) as every other Duratec.

Anything you can do to an ST 2.3 you can do to any Duratec (except for the BSD since the 2.0s don't have one to delete)

[DigitalGT]

^^ Agreed. The D23 found in both the ST and PZEV model is the same lump. Either ECU tune file can run either engine and any difference in the two tunes are negligible and amount to the same differences in the three factory SVT tune files.

As much as I hate to step on some people's toes, the ST is a parts bin car.....not a full blown engineering project like the SVTF was. The ST is simply made up of an existing D23, some SVT undercarriage bits, and a new interior. Little if anything was designed from the ground up for it.

[Sport Tech]

What is so anoying about the statment like above is that it has nothing to do with the original question.... Why is there no info on the ST on the a Focus Forum? That is just pain dumb!!!

It seems like this forum stayed stuck on the 1st Gen Focus.... 00-04!

Regardless of what you think about the engine of the ST. It is unique to it - NO OTHER CAR HAD IT LIKE THAT! Not the SE, SES, or Mazda 3, or Fusion, or Escape. All those had different engines.

If you check the listings for them they will show as different engines for each of those models. Sure they are from the same Dura family... but what's the point?

I tell you what's the point - the ST is different, looks different, accelarates different, handles different, breaks different. I also don't find info on other special focus the Saleen, the Rousch???
What is this any thing that came after the SVT does not matter?

Another thing... I don't know what is the problem with the ST having parts from other models... so what... if the parts are better than the regular - I say bring them on... that's what Ford did.... and Saleen... and Roush??

The argument for "it's not an engenieered car" give me a break.... after 10 years of Rally and winning 05,06,07 in a row + the SVT proved parts - no engeneering?

The ST's suspension is on par w/ the svt's, the engine produces more torque than the svt and it's not even tuned to it's potential (doesn't require high test gas, and the latest dura's are now in the 170 + hp and even more torque still w/ regular gas)....

As for another "parts bin car" I would love to have... let see this...
The 5.0 of the 93 mustang LX is of the same family of the 5.0 found on the 93 SVT cobra, even the block had the same serial number - the changes were all up top... but they are not the same engine.

BTW, that years Cobra also had a suspension that used parts of the 4 cyl Mustang (eg. rear springs), the rear disks breaks where from the Thunderbird Turbo Coupe of 1987-'88. The rear ligths were used on the 84-86 svo mustang... and shared most parts with the regular mustang. The Cobra R even used the standard 4 cyl interior front seats.

[DigitalGT]

Dude settle.Trust me, I get where you're aiming at......I just feel it's off course.

A lot of ST owners harbor some sort of grudge against the SVT......even though it was the SVT that essentially made the ST what it is.

The fact of the matter is the ST has the same block casting, the same head casting, the same rods, pistons, springs, valves, transmission, yadda yadda yadda as the PZEV D23. It's the SAME FREAKING MOTOR. The part numbers for all of the major components are identical.

It's not that the ST isn't special of different. It is. But what it is, is a D23 coupled with a healthy dose of the SVT team's experience. BUT it's not that far removed from a normal sedan. The engine is covered ad nauseam in the Duratec tuning forum and the suspension and brakes are covered in the SVT forum.

As far as the ST's engine not being tuned to it's full potential, you're right. With 93 octane and an aggressive tune, the ST does pick up some power......So does the SVT. My SVT has been stroked to 2.3L and had the compression dropped yet cranked out more than any stock normally aspirated D23 would......including torque figures. I'm talking about the displacement increase only.....not the ported head, not the blower, not the WMI. Stock against stock+0.3 liters.

The parts bin argument is not in the same ball field as your Mustang comparison. The ONLY major part the SVTF shared with the regular Zetec was the block casting itself....and even that was modified by the SVT team.

I'm sorry the ST is a special car that was simply piece mealed from existing parts. Getting upset and deluding yourself about it isn't going to help you at all. It may be "considered" a model of the Focus by those who adore it, but it is nowhere near the departure from the norm that the SVT was in it's time. Prior to 2005, the SVT was THE KING of USDM Foci.......today, it still remains. Petition Ford for a fire breathing SVT D23. I've wished from the get go that the SVT team had gone with that motor instead of the the Zetec.