Wideband O2 Options spelled out!!!!

[CWCZX3]

I thought i would gather up a list of all the different wideband options out there and make a little list.

So here we go in no particular order.....

AEM
Daytona Sensors
FJO Racing Products
Zeitronix
Innovate Motorsports
Motec
Performance Trends
PLX Devices
The Dyno Shop
Tech Edge
Western Motorsports
Dyno Jet
NGK
Dyno Tune
FAST
Autometer

If there are any that i can add let me know and i will update the list.

[hkysk8r07]

now we just need to make a chart on excel with each ones features to compare. nice list though

i say you put innovative right below AEM since they are the most popular.

[DJ Sures]

oooh can this be stickied?

[Ray]

Yeah i'm gonna add this to the references thread.

[cosworth]

so the plx m-300 looks to be the best for those with the sct? at $325 shipped that is a super good deal

[thefrush]

I'm hoping that a group buy for UEGO's on SRT Forums goes on for another month or so.

[dday216]

i have been looking for something just like this, thanks

[2Slik]

I'd like to know what people suggest Innovate or AEM? Is their quality just as good. Also where's the best prices for them?

[NoCoastFocus]

Can people list advantages and disadvantages of the ones they have dealt with? That would be uber terrific.

[Tobyboom]

Here is another option that I came across the other night.

http://sparkplugs.com/more_info.asp?AAIA=&pid=20509

[CWCZX3]

Added thanks!

[thefrush]

Here's where I bought my AEM UEGO Wideband from: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AEM-W...spagenameZWDVW

I paid $285 shipped when I got it, with a $15 Paypal coupon. It's now only $280 shipped, without a coupon.

[SE SPORTNY]

i say add prices of each with them and features

[CWCZX3]

Bumping to the top. The link in the FAQ's need updated also.

[belacyrf]

I just updated the FAQs

[Honda Hunter]

www.DynoTuneNitrous.com

They've got a bunch of wideband parts, and gauges.

[CWCZX3]

Added them to the list, Thanks!

[CWCZX3]

Update: added FAST to the list.

[blackbird]

Here's a good thread about why the Innovate unit's are a lot more accurate over the long haul than most others and why I personally like the engineering that goes into them better than most of the other units on the market. It offers some insight into the other popular wideband options and some of their limitations.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=1627

They've also got a lot of other good support and technical information on their support forums for not just wideband A/F measurement but for data logging as well.

[belacyrf]

Innovate is great, and I love their products. But their product isn't any more superior as you state than most of the others. In fact it is inferior to some of the others. The Bosch sensor they use is an OEM sensor on many cars, but it is not the highest quality lambda sensor availble (I'm realy not sure any of the kits use the "best" sensor out there). But I have heard from multiple sources that the sensor that FJO uses (and possibly others) is heads and tales above the Bosch sensor (also it's 4 times the price).

In your forum it says innovate gaurantees it's AFR to .1
That is not very impressive there. There is a difference from running a 12.1 A/F and 12.0. Not alot but definatlye a difference.

The FJO gaurantees its readings to .01. Much more accurate.
Plus the FJO unit is by far more heavy duty than the Innovate, and I can promise that if you held both units side by side, you would definately agree.

I'm not saying the FJO is the best, I'm just trying to enlighten you a bit, that the Innovate product (while an awesome product at a great price) is not better than all the rest.

[blackbird]

I haven't used the FJO, but I can say that the control circuit and calibration capabilities of the Innovate are better than most of the other widebands listed. I also just checked out the FJO website and they state .1 accuracy over the sensing range, not .01 (which some companies do advertise even though it's only that accurate at stoich). Also Innovate isn't driving/using the Bosch sensor the same as other kits in that they're not using a Bosch control circuit.

More than likely the other sensor you're talking about is an NTK (which is a division of NGK), which is also an OEM sensor. In an OEM environment it does have some benefits over the Bosch but also has a couple limitations. Unless you're using a spectral gas analyzer or something like a Horiba wideband analyzer there's only so much accuracy you can get out of any of the OEM type sensors. So how they're controlled and read is important. I've spent a ton of time reading through specs on a many of the major aftermarket widebands and most will get the job done. But how accurately they're really working, especially as the sensor ages, leaves some room for doubt.

There's other features like the programable output on the DynoJet Wideband Commander and the knock display with audible output of the PLX R-500 that I really like. I also don't like the Innovate LM-1's bulky design. But for the main purpose of tracking A/F I do think they're a notch above most widebands from a technical standpoint.

[belacyrf]

My bad on the accuracy, I could have sworn that when I bought mine a couple years ago it was .01. Oh well

So what your'e saying is that the way innovate uses the Bosch sensor is different than the way other systems drive their sensors. That could be well and good, but the bosch sensor is still the weak link.

The people at SCT love the NTK sensor (yes the one in the fjo). I has better heat resistance (thus can be mounted closer to the exhaust ports) and isn't nearly as sensitive as to it's mounting position as the Bosch. I've seen my friend replace his bosch sensor 3 times and have major issues using the calibration on the LM1.

Now these could be isolated incidents, but I have heard the same issues from others. LM1 is a great tool, no doubt, but as I stated earlier, it's not "the best"

Last thing to note... if innovate does all these wonderful things to drive their sensor yet they still are only able to provide the user with the same accuracy of other units. What is the benefit? Doesn't the customer only care about getting accurate AFR info? So if accuracy is equal then you go with the one that will last the longest, and this IMO is where innovate isnt' at that the top of it's class.

[blackbird]

Originally Posted by belacyrf

Last thing to note... if innovate does all these wonderful things to drive their sensor yet they still are only able to provide the user with the same accuracy of other units. What is the benefit? Doesn't the customer only care about getting accurate AFR info? So if accuracy is equal then you go with the one that will last the longest, and this IMO is where innovate isnt' at that the top of it's class.

The benefit is that if you're using it in a forced induction application where it will run richer than an OEM setup it's going to have a much shorter life (and even in a N/A application the sensor still ages). And as it ages and the accuracy drifts most of the wideband controllers have no way to know by how much. The Bosch sensor is calibrated from the factory to free air, and that point and subsequent reading of the lambda point also shifts as the sensor ages. The Innovate units can be calibrated to maintain the precision of a new sensor while others can't. It's also good to ask what range the other widebands are accurate to. Some are only that accurate near stoich while others have similar performance to the LM-1/LC-1 when new.

Any wideband kit that uses the Bosch sensor will have the same limitation and mounting/installation concerns. They are a lot pickier to where you put them. And I have known people who had problems with the Innovate's, but at least the controller/display is showing you an error when it can't compute the A/F and not just continuing to spit out what may be bad numbers.

In narrowband applications I'd almost always use an NTK sensor over a Bosch. They aren't as sluggish which you can see with a multi-meter or good scan tool with a very high sampling rate. In the wideband segment the NTK is a lot more sensitive to exhaust pressure for computing an accurate A/F ratio than the Bosch, while the Bosch is more sensitive to temperature changes. The difference is there's no inexpensive way to measure and take into consideration pressure at the sensor (for the NTK) to get a more accurate A/F reading but the Bosch can and does take temperature into consideration, unlike the NTK. If you read up a little on the Innovate tech support forums pay attention to the poster "klattinn" who is their lead engineer that does work on hardware and software. There's a link here about calibration and talks about the NTK sensor. Another good thread here.

I'm trying not to come across as an Innovate commercial, but after a ton of research I personally think they have a lot of advantages over other widebands that don't get brought up enough. The technology behind how they work is one of the main reasons I prefer them. The other is the range of gauges and data logging combinations you can use with them as a total tuning solution. And another thing that's often over looked is the data logging software that comes with a wideband. Some, like the AEM, don't even offer any logging. Most of the manufacturers let you download their software, so you can take a look around and do the 'try before you buy' to make some comparisons.

[fastraxturbo]

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