Anyone guess where the bad spots are..........




I'm going to pull them out tommorrow and give the other 3 a good going over and then I'll have to decide what to do next.
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#1 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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Well we just got the head off and low and behold I managed to break another piston. We were pretty sure it was heat related... the good news was there is ZERO damage to the cylinder!!!!!!
Anyone guess where the bad spots are.......... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() I'm going to pull them out tommorrow and give the other 3 a good going over and then I'll have to decide what to do next.
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#2 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the mountain roads of Malibu;)
Posts: 3,915
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what piston were these?
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Liquid gray 05 ZX3-2.3 build in the works:) Sonic blue 02 SVT-RIP Classic Red 97 Miata- saving for LS1 awesome:) Boost Camel Racing...cause the b**ches love BOV's;) JCM Racing #310 |
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#3 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Nassau, Bahamas
Posts: 2,296
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Probe correct?
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2000 Focus ZX3: Xios Turbo Kit on Built Motor in Progress!! |
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#4 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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For those of you that dont know the "back story" I had been trying to figure out an electrical issue... the issue caused the car to run rough and the EGT's to go WAY high. Well when I finally figured out that it didnt do it when I unplugged the J&S the car had started smoking just a little, so I went ahead and did one last datalog it.
During the datalogging I would drive it with the J&S plugged in then unplugged and you could see an absolute difference... you could definitly see on the logs where I would unplug the J&S. I do not blame J&S for the incident... John makes a GREAT product and has offere to check it out for me... and hopefully I'll get to ship it out next friday. Could the J&S have caused it??? Sure .... BUT its a piece of electronics and sometimes things go wrong no matter how well made things are. The pistons are Probes, there is NO signs of detonation like you would expect to see. I feels its purely heat related due to the retarded timing.... and there's no cylinder damage (thats TWICE that I've been lucky like that). If the other 3 pistons check out, my plan is just to replace the 1 piston and re-rings all 4.... no sense in replacing stuff that isnt broke.
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#5 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Buckner,Ky
Posts: 2,272
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get it right and get the 400whp mark
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#6 |
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TEAM Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: dunstable, Ma
Posts: 922
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how much boost were you pushing during these logs?
so when you unplugged the J and S the EGTs dropped? |
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#7 |
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TEAM Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 111
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Damn; just as Cat says, "get it right and get the 400whp mark"
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Born: June 12, 2003 #2907 of 3985 SVT Silver Bullet Procharged @ 335Hp/251Tq by Focus-Power! |
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#8 | |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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Quote:
Wiht the J&S plugged in it wouldnt go past 4k rpms and maybe 7psi if that, unplugged it would run 7k and 20psi... just like it should have. Yes the EGT's would drop as soon as I unplugged it... back down to normal.
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#9 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Janesville WI
Posts: 1,313
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what are you talking about I thought those were the custom super duper valve releaf pistons.
sorry to hear that man hope you get that up and runing soon.
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358whp and 335TQ-23psi-93oct and I can still turn the boost up. |
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#10 |
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[FJ] Specialist
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Earth
Posts: 9,015
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The same thing happened to me on my spi, no signs of detonation on my probe piston but a chunk was missing nonetheless. Happened on the valve relief on mine too!! I believe high egt's and inferior piston design were the cause. I feel your pain!!
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One day, I will have an e-owl in my sig. On that day I will have "arrived". Last edited by Gigaherz : 12-25-2007 at 12:26 PM. |
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#11 |
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TEAM Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Royal Oak, Mi
Posts: 567
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Damn i was looking foward to the v8 swap LOL
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#12 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Boonville, IN
Posts: 1,651
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possibly a design fault by probe? i'd contact the company considering the two very simular situations...
also sounds like the J&S was acting up... i'd be contacting them aswell... good luck man!! -AcId-
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2002 - Twilight Blue ZTS Built Engine, Getrag 6spd w/ Quaife, Full Eibach Suspension, 16" Enkei J10's wrapped in Pirelli P-Zero's, soon to come... 20psi daily driven http://www.sounddomain.com/ride/2523022 |
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#13 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: HUDSON, WI
Posts: 53
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sorry for my ignorance whats a j&s
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03 ZX3 2.0l zetec, JE 9 to 1 pistons, Eagle rods, Modified head with Svt lower intake , stainless upper intake, Motorsport stage 2 cams, 65mm TB, fidanza adj cams sprockets, Tri y Long tube header 2.5 magnaflow exhaust w/ resinator,SCT Pro Racer managment, VF Stage 2 SC 9,2.5 tubing with front mount intercooler 13"x13" center force clutch, boost and Inovate afr guage Svt front end, led clear side lights, projector halo lamps, CF 3" cowl hood, konig 18" wheels yoko parada 215/35r18 grip, good tunes. |
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#14 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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a J&S is a standalone knock sensor setup.... its far nicer than the factory stuff.
www.jandssafeguard.com
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#15 |
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TEAM Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cave Creek, AZ
Posts: 520
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Could someone explain in more detail and in "laymans" (i.e. Not the most tech savvy) terms how the J&S retarding timing caused heat failure of the pistons?
I'm a bit unclear on the connection, and would appreciate any & all enlightenment. Thanks in advance!
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You are a sheep, a traitor and a stupid twit. Congratulations on winning the trifecta. |
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#16 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,369
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pure and simple. he knew he had a problem and went lil to hard on car and BOOOM.
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2006-ST: FS Turbo kit Stage 2 -14.2 @ 101.50 on Stage 1 -FS: Stage-2 Exedy Clutch kit, BSD, Torsen LSD ***Rebuild soon to come(more power)*** |
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#17 | |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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Quote:
When you pull too much timing the air/gas mixture doesnt explode in the cylinder it burns and it stays burning as it is pushed into the exhaust manifold.. so instead of a quick "poof" you get a slower, longer burn which causes cylinder temps (EGT) to go up. Pulling to mich timing can and will have the same effect on an engine as going lean.
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#18 | |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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Quote:
Right, I knew there was a possibility of toasting the engine, but I needed the datalog... since I had been chasing this issue for months and this was the first time it actually occured while I had the laptop hooked up to the car so I was going to get all the data I could.
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#19 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Right over there in Clearfield UT.
Posts: 3,620
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Out of curiosity, what EGTS were you seeing with the J&S active? And do you have EGT sensors on all pistons or just use one to get an idea. As most of the other pistons will (should) be in-line with those temps.
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2001 ZX3, Rainforest Green - Somewhat un-modified. 2002 SVTF, CD Silver - Vortech Supercharged. Drive truck smart. Not Semi-stupid. |
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#20 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Waverly , Ohio
Posts: 4,329
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I pegged the gauge.....
When the car ran normal... EGT were normal... as soon as it would act up the EGT went immediatly high and if you tried to maintain say 60mph they would just go crazy high.... it would only be seconds before the gauge would peg.... at 1600* I only run 1 sensor on #3 cylinder since its usually the hottest.
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2003 SVT Focus Comp Orange Euro Package #3474 of 3985 Date of Birth July 31, 03 Turbo,Quaife and a bunch of other crap 362whp/316wtq 22PSI on 93 octane......courtesy of Focus-Power and SuperSnailFab |
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#21 | |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Right over there in Clearfield UT.
Posts: 3,620
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Quote:
Holy ****! That's definitely not a warm and fuzzy to see that.
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2001 ZX3, Rainforest Green - Somewhat un-modified. 2002 SVTF, CD Silver - Vortech Supercharged. Drive truck smart. Not Semi-stupid. |
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#22 |
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Senior TEAM Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Enola, PA
Posts: 4,528
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ahhh the beauties of high performance. There are some days where I wish I would have left my car alone......then I lay into the gas and the thought exits my mind quickly.
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Project s10 daily driver---is done thanks for the feedback! http://forums.focaljet.com/team-rigz...storation.html Project 351 swap in teh mustang--updated 6/15- 351 is in and done http://forums.focaljet.com/team-rigz...ml#post6540928 |
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#23 |
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 52
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What management do you run?
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ST170 Turbo, coming soon to a Focus club near you. *Its here and it means business* |
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#24 | |
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[FJ] Specialist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hopewell, PA (But, San Diego at heart)
Posts: 6,221
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Where did the other 2 pieces of the piston go? Thats SUPER lucky not to score the cylinder wall or damage the head. They had to go somewhere though.
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NEW: 2009 Ford Fusion SE - Blue Suede Package, 18" painted aluminium wheels, sport tuned suspension. GONE: 2008 Ford Focus SES - Stock (but Loaded) GONE: -2003 SuperBlack 350z with a bunch of cool stuff Quote:
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#25 | |
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[FJ] Addict
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Where my home is
Posts: 17,266
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Quote:
![]() The air/fuel mixture should never explode. Air/Fuel mixture should burn smoothly and evenly all the time. Timing refers to "WHERE" in the power stroke, the igniter lights the Air/Fuel to start it's burn. Picture a piston moving up the cylinder. A piston moving up the cylinder with valves closed means it is on it's "Power Stroke" and will be compressing the air/fuel and will be mixing it at the same time (Google "Squish Area" for more info about the mixing). Advancing Timing means that spark is generated while the piston is lower in the cylinder while on it's way up, where Retarding Timing means that the spark is generated while the piston is higher (Higher = closer to the top) What happens to air as you heat it? It expands!!! This expansion is what creates the force that pushes the piston back down. Now you can imagine that if you advance ignition to much, then the air might expand too much and will fight the piston on the way up which can cause the piston to rock back and forth which is "Ping" or what we refer to as detonation (though nothing is really detonating). True detonation or what is correctly called "pre-ignition" is when the air/fuel ignites by itself without the spark going off, which is never a good thing and is always to early. Also lean pockets in the air/fuel mixture can cause an uneven burn and can lead to deposits, less power, and higher EGT's as well, as it leaves fuel unburned or burning on the exhaust stroke. Hopefully that clarifies the concept of timing and what retarding and advancing it does. Basically you want the burn to complete if it doesn't complete because of timing being retarded to much, then the burn process continues beyond compression raising EGTs (not to mention it leaves all the power on the table)
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1995 Miata... Former owner of Turbo SVTF Last edited by belacyrf : 01-07-2008 at 03:54 PM. |
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