PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? - Focaljet

**OmniFocus** · 06-27-2008, 11:57 AM

The default setup for the PWSC air-to-water is:

Intercooler -> Tank -> LTR -> Pump -> Intercooler

Is there any ill effects to changing it to:

Intercooler -> LTR -> Tank -> Pump -> Intercooler

?

In my mind, it shouldn't make a difference, but I could be overlooking something.

I have a temperature probe installed immediately after the intercooler, so any ill effects SHOULD be obvious, I suppose.

**Ray** · 06-27-2008, 11:59 AM

Ltr = ?

**OmniFocus** · 06-27-2008, 12:00 PM

Sorry... Low Temperature Radiator.... the one in the front.

**Ray** · 06-27-2008, 12:04 PM

Okay. That should be fine. Just make sure the pump is below the tank, so it doesn't run dry.

On my SVT it went Tank (which was also the intercooler) - pump - LTR 1, LTR2 - Intercooler.

When i had the PWR barrel cooler it was

Intercooler --> Tank --> pump --> LTR --> intercooler.

I think that having the LTR to the intercooler direct is a good thing as there is the coolest possible water going to the intercooler before it's heated.

**OmniFocus** · 06-27-2008, 12:07 PM

I'm planning for the future when my original tank eventually cracks and I need a nice aftermarket solution.... and I'll have tons of room on the driver side.

**brads03zx3** · 06-27-2008, 12:07 PM

I almost wrote this backwards...if what you wrote is correct, your routing will improve the efficiency of the system. You want to cool the water when it is the hottest, which means you want the water to go directly from the intercooler to the LTR. There is ill-effect storing hot water in the tank.

I have had this same discussion with a fellow racer. Their Z06 oil cooler was cooling the oil from the oil pan rather than straight from the block. They were planning on changing the order.

**DigitalGT** · 06-28-2008, 11:52 PM

IMHO, you want the water to leave the LTR and proceed directly to the intercooler core. The more time the "chilled water" spends under the hood in the degas tank, the more heat it is soaking up and the warmer the IATs will be.

If I was going to put the degas tank on the drivers side, I would swap the hoses on the pump so the original flow order remains the same; intercooler, tank, pump, ltr, intercooler.

**CaysE** · 06-29-2008, 06:58 PM

My question is... would you be decreasing the efficiency of the radiator by placing it before the degas tank? Any bubbles passing through the radiator is going to decrease its cooling capability, I imagine.

The radiator immediately before the intercooler sounds like the best option for getting the coolest water.

**DigitalGT** · 06-30-2008, 08:16 AM

You're correct. The more air in the radiator and intercooler core, the less heat transfer will occur. It is advantaeous to have the degas tank up as high as possible but the packaging constraints of the Focus engine bay make that difficult. If anything I would place the degas tank before the radiator just like it is now and continue to top it off.

06-27-2008, 11:57 AM	#1
OmniFocus Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mowin' down the cones. (CA) Posts: 26,272	PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? The default setup for the PWSC air-to-water is: Intercooler -> Tank -> LTR -> Pump -> Intercooler Is there any ill effects to changing it to: Intercooler -> LTR -> Tank -> Pump -> Intercooler ? In my mind, it shouldn't make a difference, but I could be overlooking something. I have a temperature probe installed immediately after the intercooler, so any ill effects SHOULD be obvious, I suppose. __________________ Check out the shiny new PirateNinjasWithLasers.com for the latest updates in 24 Hours of LeMons goodness. Vacuum Vulture Racing: We put the "rad" in scrub radius, and the "ack" in ackerman.

06-27-2008, 11:59 AM	#2
Ray Driver > Car Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: CT Posts: 26,776	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? Ltr = ? __________________ Cable Ties. Is there anything they can't fix? Driver > Car - in memory of GaryK *Roadtrippin.org* \| CART

06-27-2008, 12:00 PM	#3
OmniFocus Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mowin' down the cones. (CA) Posts: 26,272	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? Sorry... Low Temperature Radiator.... the one in the front. __________________ Check out the shiny new PirateNinjasWithLasers.com for the latest updates in 24 Hours of LeMons goodness. Vacuum Vulture Racing: We put the "rad" in scrub radius, and the "ack" in ackerman.

06-27-2008, 12:04 PM	#4
Ray Driver > Car Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: CT Posts: 26,776	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? Okay. That should be fine. Just make sure the pump is below the tank, so it doesn't run dry. On my SVT it went Tank (which was also the intercooler) - pump - LTR 1, LTR2 - Intercooler. When i had the PWR barrel cooler it was Intercooler --> Tank --> pump --> LTR --> intercooler. I think that having the LTR to the intercooler direct is a good thing as there is the coolest possible water going to the intercooler before it's heated. __________________ Cable Ties. Is there anything they can't fix? Driver > Car - in memory of GaryK *Roadtrippin.org* \| CART

06-27-2008, 12:07 PM	#5
OmniFocus Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mowin' down the cones. (CA) Posts: 26,272	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? I'm planning for the future when my original tank eventually cracks and I need a nice aftermarket solution.... and I'll have tons of room on the driver side. __________________ Check out the shiny new PirateNinjasWithLasers.com for the latest updates in 24 Hours of LeMons goodness. Vacuum Vulture Racing: We put the "rad" in scrub radius, and the "ack" in ackerman.

06-27-2008, 12:07 PM	#6
brads03zx3 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Posts: 9,094	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? I almost wrote this backwards...if what you wrote is correct, your routing will improve the efficiency of the system. You want to cool the water when it is the hottest, which means you want the water to go directly from the intercooler to the LTR. There is ill-effect storing hot water in the tank. I have had this same discussion with a fellow racer. Their Z06 oil cooler was cooling the oil from the oil pan rather than straight from the block. They were planning on changing the order. __________________ Mountain Tested----'03 zetec DuraMonster---'03 duratec ZX3 vs MNTN - 9/0 & ZX3 vs TRACK - 4/1 *JCM Racing #88* Bouncing Back---Bigger, Faster, Stronger Vacuum Vulture Racing - We put the ARG in 'CHARGED

06-28-2008, 11:52 PM	#7
DigitalGT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jacksonville / Orange Park, FL Posts: 1,096	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? IMHO, you want the water to leave the LTR and proceed directly to the intercooler core. The more time the "chilled water" spends under the hood in the degas tank, the more heat it is soaking up and the warmer the IATs will be. If I was going to put the degas tank on the drivers side, I would swap the hoses on the pump so the original flow order remains the same; intercooler, tank, pump, ltr, intercooler. __________________ '03 Pitch Black SVT 5 Door -- Audiophile, HID, Moonroof, Cold Weather Package, EAP Recaro interior, HID Foglights, and lots of motorwork. '96 Burgandy Toyota Avalon XLS -- The Beater '05 Carbon Fiber Buell Lightning XB12S -- The Boy '07 Sex Red Ducati Sport Classic 1000S -- The Girl

06-29-2008, 06:58 PM	#8
CaysE [FJ] This is worse than when the raccoon got caught in the copier! Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bloomfield, NJ Posts: 7,653	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? My question is... would you be decreasing the efficiency of the radiator by placing it before the degas tank? Any bubbles passing through the radiator is going to decrease its cooling capability, I imagine. The radiator immediately before the intercooler sounds like the best option for getting the coolest water. __________________ 2008 Cannondale F4 ··· Hi-brite · no mods (yet) 2003 Vermilion Red SVTf ··· hehehehehehe strictly/focused "It would take a miracle to make the entire Focus community get along. FF vs FJ, F-P vs FS, tuner vs tuner, racer vs ricer. What can you do?"

06-30-2008, 08:16 AM	#9
DigitalGT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Jacksonville / Orange Park, FL Posts: 1,096	Re: PWSC Air-to-water order... critical? You're correct. The more air in the radiator and intercooler core, the less heat transfer will occur. It is advantaeous to have the degas tank up as high as possible but the packaging constraints of the Focus engine bay make that difficult. If anything I would place the degas tank before the radiator just like it is now and continue to top it off. __________________ '03 Pitch Black SVT 5 Door -- Audiophile, HID, Moonroof, Cold Weather Package, EAP Recaro interior, HID Foglights, and lots of motorwork. '96 Burgandy Toyota Avalon XLS -- The Beater '05 Carbon Fiber Buell Lightning XB12S -- The Boy '07 Sex Red Ducati Sport Classic 1000S -- The Girl Last edited by DigitalGT : 06-30-2008 at 03:24 PM.

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