SVT CGI engine block swap

[SaucyMuffin]

I'm looking to go with ALOT of boost and I have located a CGI block (acutally used in european rally cars) and I am wondering if I should build an entire new engine or just buy the block build a whole new bottem end with new pistons and conecting rods etc etc.. and reuse my top end from my SVT. I'm starting research into this now so I know what all I should be planing for.

[WRCwannabe]

why?
the svt block can handle 400whp easily. (block strenght, not internals, John ran 370whp for like 8 month on a completely stock svt engine) so the blocks are good for power.
it is castiron. you are getting about 25% stornger block, but unless you are going to be running like 50psi then its not needed.
i personally think save your money and spend it on something else.

how much boost are we talking? and what compression you going to run?

[Ja-Red]

x2 the cgi block was made to do 600+ftlbs all day and in the upper rpms so unless you are gonna do that I would pass... I did

[SaucyMuffin]

I plan on building it for a hillclimb car and Johns SVT engineblock didn't blow it was his pistons and rings. I was talking to him Sunday when I met him. I don't know what compression I want to run. But I want to have the ability to run a HUGE amount of boost when needed. I want my lowest amount to be set at 300whp and have the ability to go plenty over. I figure if I have to put new pistons and connecting rods in then I might aswell get a lighter block. I never built and engine before so I'm just leanering this stuff and haven't done a whole ton of research. But I'm looking to build a replica WRC car for PHA races (Pennsyvania Hillclimb Assosiation) so I need power to climb mountains.

[WRCwannabe]

when i say blew his engine thats what i meant, not blow up the block.

you would ahve to be revving for like 8k rpms all. and at like 600hp and tq

[SaucyMuffin]

So then what you are telling me is my 88K+ SVT is perfectly capable of pushing the 300+ whp I want to make for my car? So if I go home get a turbo kit put on my car and take it to McNews that he can tune it to 300+ at the wheels and I'll be perfectly fine for it to be driven dd untill I get a new dd?

[hEaT]

Yes, as long as your motor has been well taken care of. 350whp is fine on stock SVT internals if you have a good tune. You'll probably need a new clutch though.

I'll move this over to FI.

[WRCwannabe]

but yes, but what im trying to get through to you is that the block itself is good for atlest 450.

you can have forged rods and pistons and be able to push 400's.

we are talking about the block not the internals.

[SaucyMuffin]

okay so then since the block is alright are the internals fine for 350whp then?

and I already have a stage 3 CM clutch and lightweight flywheel.

[sleeperlove]

The internals are fine for that much but are they good to have that much reliably under racing conditions?

Build the engine so you don't have to worry about it. Put quality stuff in there, crower rods, JE pistons, don't skimp. Have the head done, get a custom intake manifold, etc. The next weak link will be the transmission with enormous power like that.

[Ja-Red]

I don't think that people realize that Crower rods are aluminum which means they stretch and need to be replaced... often! Not to mention that eagle rods are rated for 900hp Since I have never herd of ANYONE breaking the 600whp mark I don't think anyone's build would require crower rods.

[IslandFocus]

I thought Crower rods were billet steel.

[hEaT]

Originally Posted by Ja-Red

I don't think that people realize that Crower rods are aluminum which means they stretch and need to be replaced... often! Not to mention that eagle rods are rated for 900hp Since I have never herd of ANYONE breaking the 600whp mark I don't think anyone's build would require crower rods.

http://www.crower.com/cat/domestic/f...cus_rods.shtml

4340 Steel Billet Connecting Rods
Crower is the industry leader in high performance connecting rods. Choose from the largest selection of import makes available including Honda/Acura, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Porsche, Nissan, Saturn, Neon, Ford and Volkswagen. CNC machined from premium quality 4340 chromoly steel, Crower billet rods are the only choice when running nitrous oxide, high boost or high rpm in your "all motor" application. They're insurance for your block.

I didn't see anything on their site about aluminum rods. Where did you hear they were aluminum?

[DigitalGT]

As the owner of a CGI blocked boosted SVT I can tell you one thing. Don't bother. The factory steel block is plenty strong enough.

If you could get a new CGI block that has never been used for a decent price then it might be worth it. I would be very cautious about buying a used CGI block from a European rally team. Plus the oil pressure in the CGI block sucks at lower RPMS.

Save your cash and put it into a very very well built head. That's what needs the work, not the block.

[Ja-Red]

Originally Posted by hEaT

I didn't see anything on their site about aluminum rods. Where did you hear they were aluminum?

I was drunk last night and assumed, obviously wrong. That is even more outrageous what would be the point then? They have got to be significantly heavier and the strength would be far past overkill.

Ok, I finally looked on crowers website and those are not the ones that i had previously seen. The ones I had seen were aluminum, not the steel I beam on their website. The ones I saw must have been custom.

[IslandFocus]

I have Crower Rods and I got them just for the piece of mind knowing I might want to push the car to 500whp one day.

[SaucyMuffin]

yeah I found a brand spankin' new one with the squirters for hopfully 1500 I gotta talk to the guy.

[Ja-Red]

A brand new SVT engine?

cuz, that would be dumb IMO

You could buy a zetec block for 300 or less, and have it machined and eagle rods and whatever forged pistons installed for not much more than that. You dont need the oil squirters if you have forged pistons.

[SaucyMuffin]

alright if I don't need oil squirters then why does a stock SVT block have squirters with factory forged pistons?

like I said I'm just asking all this because I want to make power reliably under race conditions of hill climb events. I want to make sure that my engine isn't going to blow in the middle of a run. I just don't trust my 89K SVT engine (checked the mileage today lol). Unless I would be fine to just pull the old engine rip it apart put stronger rods and pistons in and replace all the gaskets and seals I want to make sure that I can make monster power and be safe to race it.

[Ja-Red]

They don't have forged pistons. They are practically the same as the zetec ones just in a different compression ratio.

89k is a fresh engine there are several zetecs with over 400k on them one has gone over 700k. You can make 300whp reliable on what you have with the proper tune. Build the block with forged pistons and rods and you can do 500+

[DigitalGT]

^^ Whut he said.

Except for one thing. You may not need oil squirters but they certainly won't hurt. In fact they will reduce piston temps. And if you're that concerned that you'll need them, any engine machine shop worth their salt should be able to drill and tap a regular Zetec block for them.

There is a limit to everything and the Zetec iron block isn't Goliath. But it will manage a lot of power if properly assembled and properly tuned. It is fairly stout.......stout enough that I'd venture to say any failure in one making south of 500 HP will be due to improper assembly or tuning.

[SaucyMuffin]

I'm sorry I must be stupid as hell as many times as I read these posts trying to help me I'm still clouded in confusion.

Just answer me straight up; Stock SVT engine is good for 300+ whp running what max psi reliably under race conditions at 89k miles?

I just need a straight answer on that then I'll be good, it appears to me that almost everyone has said something about a totally different block in each of their posts lol.

[Ja-Red]

Yes you should have no problem making 300whp on what you have with 89k miles. I made 340whp and more importantly 338wtq on a bone stock 70k mile zetec which is regarded to be significantly weaker than the SVT.

A proper tune is key!!!! Without it you can blow your engine up at 200whp!

[bmylez]

Yup, I wouldn't sweat 300whp at all. I'm looking to push 360whp on my stock SVT engine with 86k on the clock. I won't run that all the time, but I'm not worried. As everyone said, though, if you want peace of mind, throwing forged internals in there isn't a bad idea. Since this is going to be a race car and not a DD, the internals are going to take more stress than normal.

[SaucyMuffin]

alright thank you for the speedy reply and yeah I would be getting it tuned at McNews Automotive which is from what I hear the best place on the northern East Coast to get tuned since they used to have a hard on for the Focus. Looks like after I buy a new DD its time to start piecing together a turbo kit!