High-revving PWSC buildup. - Page 2 - The Ford Focus Forum

**OmniFocus** · 11-04-2009, 06:11 PM

...and it isn't a bad thought.

...but, I've already got the MTX-75 with a Torsen, 4.06 gears, FS Flywheel, and upgraded clutch. To swap in a Getrag with all the other upgrades would really make my cash cow bleed.

I already own this upgraded block, as well, so the RPMs are a natural progression.

**guitarseth** · 11-04-2009, 06:42 PM

I can't really say anything boost related, but for high RPM applications, I did a little bit of looking around to see what all I needed to do.

You will definitely want to upgrade the oil pump. I haven't seen any Focus apps blow the stock gears, but I've seen it with some of the kit car guys with ITBs that rev a lot higher. Its pretty cheap insurance for reliability.

The valvesprings are also a good idea, especially if you go with a set of bigger than stock cams. At a minimum, you'll want to clean up a stock head casting a little bit, and preferrably you'd go with an aftermarket head. If you're looking for primarily a track car, I'm thinking you'll want to concern yourself more with the volume that the head flows instead of the velocity.

Probably the most important thing to do is make sure that you get the entire rotating assembly balanced. On my build, the engine revs a lot more readily, and actually seems quieter at a constant RPM. Zetecs normally seem like they're really straining to get over 5K, but with the built engine, my Focus seems to keep revving exponentially faster. Ray set my limiter at 7400, just because we were already beyond peak power (which is probably limited by the stock IM and basically stock head).

**COSDEVSVT** · 11-04-2009, 07:14 PM

Your at peak power at 6750 because that is where the peak output of the M62 blower is relative to the Zetec head/exhaust breathing.

The SVT can rev higher because it breathes better - but the same M62 blower is nosing over and doesn't have much more to give at ~13.5k RPM (I don't remember exactly what the speed was). Blower bearings are about at their speed limit too.

Blower pulley changes really only shorten or extend the peak power speed and change the slope of the power curve.

A M90 rotor set is really what is needed to take a PWSC to the next level - neither easy nor cheap to accomplish however. Even that is old school these days ... TVS is the (comparible) way to go.

**Terrible1** · 11-04-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX3TUNING

just a little news i just got off the phone with my cam builder and he has 2 new sets of Focus blanks in stock is if anyone is serious about some cams for a PW car....

Ooooo.... I just might be interested in a set

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintB1321

lorin, shane...

you guys just need turbos

You shut up!!!! See... what did I tell you?!?! You're the devil on my shoulder

**Terrible1** · 11-05-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COSDEVSVT

A M90 rotor set is really what is needed to take a PWSC to the next level - neither easy nor cheap to accomplish however. Even that is old school these days ... TVS is the (comparible) way to go.

Whats this TVS you're talking about??? I must know

**ClintB1321** · 11-05-2009, 12:10 AM

turbo turbo turbo

**Terrible1** · 11-05-2009, 12:24 AM

TVS isn't a turbo... I'm sure of it!!!!
Go away... torque boy

**ClintB1321** · 11-05-2009, 12:30 AM

TURBO TURBO TURBO!!!!

**cjmartinyzx3** · 11-05-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClintB1321

turbo turbo turbo

quoted for emphasis

**Reza** · 11-05-2009, 12:52 AM

ahh you are stealing my Idea!!!

I have to say when I did my research, I think you need oil pump, you have to make sure that you port the inlet and outlet so they match otherwise you'll have a problem, there was a guy here that built zetec engines for Lotus 7's and his engines rev all they way to 9000 rpms.

clutch and light weight flywheel is must IMHO as well, and last the CFM stage 3 head with stiffer valve springs, but i keep the stock cams. then the 4.06 gear ratio, If you rev it all they way to 8250 you should be somewhere near 280whp.

Good luck and keep us posted.

**COSDEVSVT** · 11-05-2009, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrible1

Whats this TVS you're talking about??? I must know

Eaton Twin Vorticies Series (TVS) blower - the latest/greatest generation of rotor and case design.

Major rework to make that happen ... but evolution costs $

**ClintB1321** · 11-05-2009, 10:52 AM

a turbo build would prolly be cheaper

HAHA shane is gunna kill me

**CaysE** · 11-05-2009, 12:13 PM

Everybody is stealing everyone's ideas!

TVS is the direction I'm heading myself.

What size pulley is on the PWSC now? The 5th gen M62 should be fine reaching 7500rpm with a 2.8" pulley.

**COSDEVSVT** · 11-05-2009, 01:01 PM

2.8" is stock PWSC pulley

**COSDEVSVT** · 11-05-2009, 01:08 PM

TVS is cool but if you're going to re-invent, Lysholm and IHI are worth looking into as well.

**Hocky** · 11-05-2009, 01:15 PM

If there is one thing that I've learned in all of the parts that I've broken, it is that RPM breaks stuff. If you want to consistent, reliable car, I would not look at reving out farther too often.

**CaysE** · 11-05-2009, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COSDEVSVT

2.8" is stock PWSC pulley

Right, but there are three different pulleys for the PWSC. If the 2.4" is on there, I would not rev the engine out above 7300rpm.

**dhardison** · 11-05-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaysE

Right, but there are three different pulleys for the PWSC. If the 2.4" is on there, I would not rev the engine out above 7300rpm.

Actually there are four different pulley sizes for the PWSC.

Powerworks (stock) & Massive (interchangeable) = 2.8"
Massive (interchangeable) = 2.6"
Powerworks (bbk) = 2.5"
Massive (interchangeable) = 2.4"

**CaysE** · 11-05-2009, 03:04 PM

Well there you go.

**ClintB1321** · 11-05-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hocky

If there is one thing that I've learned in all of the parts that I've broken, it is that RPM breaks stuff. If you want to consistent, reliable car, I would not look at reving out farther too often.

x2

my motor is built to rev to 8k, but the rev limiter is set to 7500, and honestly i just shift at 7k.

just get a turbo, make more power, and call it a day

**ProjectSedan** · 11-05-2009, 04:09 PM

You are also missing the clutch. The only 2 clutched that i know that can handle going to 8k is the Exedy Hyper and the Twin plate clutchmasters. This is what i heard.

**ClintB1321** · 11-05-2009, 04:12 PM

clutches that are sutable for high rpm are ones that are SFI certified, which is most of exedy's performance line

**Terrible1** · 11-05-2009, 11:22 PM

My clutch will handle 8000rpm no problem

**02ztsian** · 11-07-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX3TUNING

just a little news i just got off the phone with my cam builder and he has 2 new sets of Focus blanks in stock is if anyone is serious about some cams for a PW car....

Can he re-grind SVT cams as well?

**ZX3TUNING** · 11-07-2009, 01:27 PM

he can but for the focus you'll need shims. we wont make the Triflow's off a regrind.
Sell James(on FBC) the cranes and buy mine! much simpler!

for a PW car that you want to rev out, you will need to build it JUST like a NA engine that you want to rev out. the power delivery is so linear with the PW setup that you just need to over build it and NOT put a smaller pulley on the blower.
build the engine as if you were building a 10,000rpm NA engine. lighter everything and balanced and blue printed to the same standards. ideally, you want to drop off everything from the pressure plate to the crank pully.

Like Hocky said, RPMS break things so you over build and just suck up the cost like a man!

if you seriously want to spin it above 8k, Tilton custom makes 5" multi-disc clutches for anything and then just dry sump it and you wont have to worry about oiling or pump gears exploding and will be able to spin it to 10K+!

11-04-2009, 06:11 PM	#26 (permalink)
OmniFocus Moderator Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mowin' down the cones. (CA) Posts: 29,403	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. ...and it isn't a bad thought. ...but, I've already got the MTX-75 with a Torsen, 4.06 gears, FS Flywheel, and upgraded clutch. To swap in a Getrag with all the other upgrades would really make my cash cow bleed. I already own this upgraded block, as well, so the RPMs are a natural progression. __________________ Vacuum Vulture Racing: The masters of ape latexing.

11-04-2009, 06:42 PM	#27 (permalink)
guitarseth Look under the curve... UNDER THE CURVE! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Wooster, OH Posts: 3,582	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. I can't really say anything boost related, but for high RPM applications, I did a little bit of looking around to see what all I needed to do. You will definitely want to upgrade the oil pump. I haven't seen any Focus apps blow the stock gears, but I've seen it with some of the kit car guys with ITBs that rev a lot higher. Its pretty cheap insurance for reliability. The valvesprings are also a good idea, especially if you go with a set of bigger than stock cams. At a minimum, you'll want to clean up a stock head casting a little bit, and preferrably you'd go with an aftermarket head. If you're looking for primarily a track car, I'm thinking you'll want to concern yourself more with the volume that the head flows instead of the velocity. Probably the most important thing to do is make sure that you get the entire rotating assembly balanced. On my build, the engine revs a lot more readily, and actually seems quieter at a constant RPM. Zetecs normally seem like they're really straining to get over 5K, but with the built engine, my Focus seems to keep revving exponentially faster. Ray set my limiter at 7400, just because we were already beyond peak power (which is probably limited by the stock IM and basically stock head). __________________ French Blue 2003 ZX3 Power Premium MTX Mild Naturally Aspirated build - Modded for driving enjoyment My Car

11-04-2009, 07:14 PM	#28 (permalink)
COSDEVSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,189	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. Your at peak power at 6750 because that is where the peak output of the M62 blower is relative to the Zetec head/exhaust breathing. The SVT can rev higher because it breathes better - but the same M62 blower is nosing over and doesn't have much more to give at ~13.5k RPM (I don't remember exactly what the speed was). Blower bearings are about at their speed limit too. Blower pulley changes really only shorten or extend the peak power speed and change the slope of the power curve. A M90 rotor set is really what is needed to take a PWSC to the next level - neither easy nor cheap to accomplish however. Even that is old school these days ... TVS is the (comparible) way to go. __________________ '04 PW (#1) Competition Orange SVT 5-door Euro Wanna buy a Focus harness bar? (<- click)

11-05-2009, 12:10 AM	#31 (permalink)
ClintB1321 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 5,364	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. turbo turbo turbo __________________ Boost Camel Racing...when you don't care how rice you look in the name of speed :)

11-05-2009, 12:24 AM	#32 (permalink)
Terrible1 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho Posts: 2,628	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. TVS isn't a turbo... I'm sure of it!!!! Go away... torque boy __________________ Time Attack Unlimited FWD Class #26 SCCA E-Modified Class #26 Too many mods to list... Here is a link to my build thread http://forums.focaljet.com/team-rigz...6k-no-way.html

11-05-2009, 12:30 AM	#33 (permalink)
ClintB1321 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 5,364	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. TURBO TURBO TURBO!!!! __________________ Boost Camel Racing...when you don't care how rice you look in the name of speed :)

11-05-2009, 12:52 AM	#35 (permalink)
Reza Formerly focus_wrc Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 8,680	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. ahh you are stealing my Idea!!! I have to say when I did my research, I think you need oil pump, you have to make sure that you port the inlet and outlet so they match otherwise you'll have a problem, there was a guy here that built zetec engines for Lotus 7's and his engines rev all they way to 9000 rpms. clutch and light weight flywheel is must IMHO as well, and last the CFM stage 3 head with stiffer valve springs, but i keep the stock cams. then the 4.06 gear ratio, If you rev it all they way to 8250 you should be somewhere near 280whp. Good luck and keep us posted. __________________ H&R/// , Team Dynamics , FocusSport , TCE Brakes, Bridgestone.

11-05-2009, 10:52 AM	#37 (permalink)
ClintB1321 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 5,364	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. a turbo build would prolly be cheaper HAHA shane is gunna kill me __________________ Boost Camel Racing...when you don't care how rice you look in the name of speed :)

11-05-2009, 12:13 PM	#38 (permalink)
CaysE EDM Specialist Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bloomfield, NJ Posts: 10,765	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. Everybody is stealing everyone's ideas! TVS is the direction I'm heading myself. What size pulley is on the PWSC now? The 5th gen M62 should be fine reaching 7500rpm with a 2.8" pulley. __________________ 2002 Liquid Grey ZX3 ··· SVT replica-in-progress 2003 Vermilion Red SVTf ··· ported JRSC BBK, ported head, 3" exhaust, Euro interior, more to come! strictly/focused • team edm

11-05-2009, 01:01 PM	#39 (permalink)
COSDEVSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,189	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. 2.8" is stock PWSC pulley __________________ '04 PW (#1) Competition Orange SVT 5-door Euro Wanna buy a Focus harness bar? (<- click)

11-05-2009, 01:08 PM	#40 (permalink)
COSDEVSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,189	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. TVS is cool but if you're going to re-invent, Lysholm and IHI are worth looking into as well. __________________ '04 PW (#1) Competition Orange SVT 5-door Euro Wanna buy a Focus harness bar? (<- click)

11-05-2009, 01:15 PM	#41 (permalink)
Hocky Dyno Queen Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 7,293	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. If there is one thing that I've learned in all of the parts that I've broken, it is that RPM breaks stuff. If you want to consistent, reliable car, I would not look at reving out farther too often. __________________ e-tear

11-05-2009, 03:04 PM	#44 (permalink)
CaysE EDM Specialist Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bloomfield, NJ Posts: 10,765	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. Well there you go. __________________ 2002 Liquid Grey ZX3 ··· SVT replica-in-progress 2003 Vermilion Red SVTf ··· ported JRSC BBK, ported head, 3" exhaust, Euro interior, more to come! strictly/focused • team edm

11-05-2009, 04:09 PM	#46 (permalink)
ProjectSedan TEAM Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USAF: Tinker AFB Posts: 605	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. You are also missing the clutch. The only 2 clutched that i know that can handle going to 8k is the Exedy Hyper and the Twin plate clutchmasters. This is what i heard. __________________ Gone: 2001 Focus LX with a few upgrades 2002 Focus ZX3 w/ custom turbo: parts from Massive and Top Speed, built and tunned by SkidMark Racing

11-05-2009, 04:12 PM	#47 (permalink)
ClintB1321 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 5,364	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. clutches that are sutable for high rpm are ones that are SFI certified, which is most of exedy's performance line __________________ Boost Camel Racing...when you don't care how rice you look in the name of speed :)

11-05-2009, 11:22 PM	#48 (permalink)
Terrible1 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho Posts: 2,628	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. My clutch will handle 8000rpm no problem __________________ Time Attack Unlimited FWD Class #26 SCCA E-Modified Class #26 Too many mods to list... Here is a link to my build thread http://forums.focaljet.com/team-rigz...6k-no-way.html

11-07-2009, 01:27 PM	#50 (permalink)
ZX3TUNING Black EAPs = Love. Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC. Canada Posts: 2,279	Re: High-revving PWSC buildup. he can but for the focus you'll need shims. we wont make the Triflow's off a regrind. Sell James(on FBC) the cranes and buy mine! much simpler! for a PW car that you want to rev out, you will need to build it JUST like a NA engine that you want to rev out. the power delivery is so linear with the PW setup that you just need to over build it and NOT put a smaller pulley on the blower. build the engine as if you were building a 10,000rpm NA engine. lighter everything and balanced and blue printed to the same standards. ideally, you want to drop off everything from the pressure plate to the crank pully. Like Hocky said, RPMS break things so you over build and just suck up the cost like a man! if you seriously want to spin it above 8k, Tilton custom makes 5" multi-disc clutches for anything and then just dry sump it and you wont have to worry about oiling or pump gears exploding and will be able to spin it to 10K+! __________________ Power in Style.... *ZX3Tuning* Part of Conglomerate Motorwerks! Mitch A.

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