Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit - Focaljet

**biker16** · 02-01-2002, 02:36 AM

Iwon.com

<blockquote>quote:<hr> Thursday January 31, 10:28 PM EST

BARSTOW, Calif. (Reuters) - A California jury ruled on Thursday that Ford Motor Co.'s Explorer sport utility vehicle is "defective by design," in what was thought to be the first time Ford was found liable for manufacturing and shipping a faulty Explorer model.

A Barstow, California jury ruled 10 to 2 on Thursday evening in favor of Agop and Catherine Gozukara, whose four-door 1994 Ford Explorer rolled over on a California highway three months after they bought it in 1997. Agop Gozukara suffered severe leg injuries in the accident and his wife was paralyzed for life, their attorneys said.

"This is the first time in history that a jury has found this vehicle to be defective in design, in that it has a propensity to roll over," said Garo Mardirossian, attorney for the plaintiffs.

"The floodgates have now opened up," he said. "It's not a Firestone Tire problem. It's a car problem."

A Ford spokesman said he was not familiar with the case and could not immediately comment. Plaintiffs' lawyers said the potion of the trial in which financial damages are set will begin on Tuesday.

Ford has struggled with issues related to its best-selling Explorer sport utility model since August 2000, when Japanese tire maker Bridgestone Corp. said it would recall 6.5 million Firestone tires fitted mainly on Explorer vehicles. Ford later said it would replace all 13 million Firestone Wilderness AT tires on its vehicles because of "substantial failure risk."

The U.S. government has said more than 200 people died from accidents linked to the tires or to Ford vehicles. Ford claimed the safety problems at issue were caused by Firestone tires, while Firestone blamed the accidents on the Explorer.

On Thursday, the California jury ruled not only that the Ford Explorer model involved in the case was defective, but that it was faulty when Ford shipped it, according to a release issued by the plaintiff's attorneys.

Ford's redesigned 2002 four-door Explorer posted rollover ratings comparable to other sport utilities, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported last fall.

A separate NHTSA investigation found the rollover risk for Explorers was no greater than other sport utility vehicles during incidents of tire tread separations or blowouts.

©2001 Reuters Limited.<hr></blockquote>

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: biker16 ]

FlaFocus · 02-01-2002, 06:45 AM

Thats not right, it was both their fault not just Ford.

**racerx** · 02-01-2002, 07:46 AM

If you really think it's an Explorer design flaw, you might want to check this out:

www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/columns/2001/January/200101_steeringcolumn.xml?&page=1

For the lazy, C&D rigged the tire to rapidly deflate at a drag strip, and worked their way to the point that they could pop the tire at 70mph, with their hands off the steering wheel, and the vehicle tracked straight.

Hmm...

I especially like the plaintiffs' lawyer's remark about "opening the floodgates." I could almost see the slot machine $$$ spinning in his eyes. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

V · 02-01-2002, 08:10 AM

I read that article when it came out. I am still a firm believer that if you put a driver who does not pay attention/ doesnt know how to handle a LARGE automobile then you are going to have problems. All of these (sorry but this is bad) soccer moms driving around in the biggest SUV they can get talking on their cell phones running red lights (I almost got nailed yesterday) is a problem and it is only getting worse.

I swear like 60% of the cars I see are SUV's. Nothing like driving a car that gets 18mpg around town by yourself. But I forgot...they need the space [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: V ]

**racerx** · 02-01-2002, 08:21 AM

Why is it nobody talks about the 18-year-old kid in the Cavalier talking on a cell phone and running red lights? It's always this statistical "soccer mom in a sport ute." Frankly, I see much more of the former than the latter.

Anyway, if you can tell me how to get my wife, daughter, greyhound and beagle around in my Contour or Focus, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll keep using the Exploder.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: racerx ]

V · 02-01-2002, 08:29 AM

Its just easy to say soccer mom [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I am not ragging on all SUV owners...it just cracks me up when I see a late 30's woman driving an Excursion talking on the phone with not a care in the world about what that 2 ton beast of a car is doing. I wouldnt stand a chance in that kind of crash. Driving has become accident avoidance because it seems that drivers will now do the stupid stuff that you would go....no they arent going to do that...ohh wait too late they just did.

My g/f has an Explorer so they are alright [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I am a big fan of a sport wagon though [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

**bitwiz** · 02-01-2002, 08:38 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Why is it nobody talks about the 18-year-old kid in the Cavalier talking on a cell phone and running red lights? It's always this statistical "soccer mom in a sport ute." Frankly, I see much more of the former than the latter.
<hr></blockquote>
As someone who just got hit by a soccer mom in a Expedition, I'll keep using the term soccer mom. My Focus is apparently too small to see from the truck [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

**SilverSVT** · 02-01-2002, 09:31 AM

Biker posted this over on the BON Forums and Ford Motor Company posted a reply back saying that the Press release was wrong and that they wheren't at fault. How can you sue someone when you drive up a divider and flip your car? ****...a Focus,etc would do the same thing! The Morons didnt even have their seatbelts on!

Scott

**UNSPACY** · 02-01-2002, 09:59 AM

It's all about blaming someone else, avoiding responsability, and getting that fat check! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Then again I'm not sure who is at true fault here but I can only imagion someone hearing a bang and completly freaking out and doing a manuver to cause the vehicle to "trip". A as far as design defect, well you have a box on stilts. How do you think it's gonna react! Proper driver training would help a lot in this country but I doubt we'll see it happen.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: UNSPACY ]

**InsertCleverNameHere** · 02-01-2002, 11:18 AM

Two points I have wondered about when condsidering the Ford/Firestone debacle.

Seat belts. I wonder how many people who died in Explorers were not wearing them.

Also, I'd imagine that many Explorer owners service their vehicles at Jiffy Lube-type places. So, when the lube guy checks the air pressure in the tires I doubt he goes by what Ford recommends, but what is on the tire. Hmmmm

These two factors are not addressed in the "stats" of Explorer rollover-related deaths.

They just correlate the vehicle with the accident. There is more to consider, IMO.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: InsertCleverNameHere ]

**logic_bomb** · 02-01-2002, 11:37 AM

i agree that suvs are generally useless. My soon to be mother in law drives a 2001 excursion LM 4x4 V10. she bought it to haul around the kids and her business clients, the four wheel drive was also good for when it snowed. Now that all her kids are out of the house she will be recieving(sp?) her 2003 Thunderbird. however she did total a poor innocent corolla by rear ending it while yaking on her cell. She hit the poor toyota so hard, it was propelled forward into the back of a greyhound. The worst part is that she is an ex cop so you would think that she would know how to drive.
Most husbands buy their wives SUVs because although they are very cumborsome they can pretty much take out anything this side of a mac truck in a wreck. That why my fiance got an explorer. She can't drive for ***** and i want her to be as safe as possible.

p.s. in the meantime she is going to driving classes so she won't kill anyone or flip the damned thing. When she first got it i could have sworn she was under the impression that it was a 360 Modena the was she was taking turns. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

**Wedge1212** · 02-01-2002, 11:40 AM

well i also believe that the tires had an inadiquate speed rating for todays driving....I dunno i just heard something like that. But i think its the drivers fault. There's no way in hell that a blown tire is gonna flip a car unless you one of the following.

1. stupid
2. high
3. stupid
4. talking on your phone and operating the wheel with your feet
5. sleeping
6. 3 yrs. old
7. stupid
8. failed your driving test more than 2 times
9. stupid
10. really really f'n stupid

Well, I just think some people have a difficult time driving SUV's cause they dont realize that those cars are sooo top heavy and massive body roll. When I have to drive my parents navigator every now and then it takes me some time to get used to it cause im used to my lowered focus, a BMW 528i, or a S2000. But granted i havent flipped the navi. We've had tires blow out on that thing and noooo problems. So i think it all comes down to driver stupidity. Wether its a soccor mom or dad or 16-99yr old. People are either inadiquately trained to opperate their vehicle or they do not know the limitations of their vehicle. The drivers knowledge of a vehicles limits is very important. I havent met the limitations of the focus yet but i know they're not spectacular. Speed/acceleration wise its getting there but handling wise...it'll never be my probe. But anyways I think what happend to those rejects who had blow outs was the following.

1. tire blows out
2. driver cranks the wheel one direction and majorly over copensates
3. car flips killing everyone inside and ford gets the blame for some jackass who doesnt know that you put both hands on the wheel and make slight adjustments as nessccary to keep your car from doing a 180 / 360 or flipping.

**racerx** · 02-01-2002, 11:44 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by logic_bomb:
She hit the poor toyota so hard, it was propelled forward into the back of a greyhound.<hr></blockquote>

That's terrible! All the work we do to put them into loving adoptive homes after their track days, and he gets squashed by a Corolla. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbdown.gif[/img]

[img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

**logic_bomb** · 02-01-2002, 11:47 AM

arggghhh!!! god i hate firestone. ever since this fiasco came out to the public i've had hundreds of people ask me if they are going to die. i work at NTB (national tire and battery) and i had to deal with that ***** for the better part of last year.
anyhoo. the firestone tires were not blowing out as everyone seems to believe. The tread would actually become unbonded from the carcass of the tire and wrap itself around the axle, subsequently locking it up (then the tire would blow out as it's squishy inards were drug across the pavement). This is why car and drivers (or was it motortrend?) test of the explorer never resulted in a roll over. they were simulating a blow out.
Firestone tires were crap anyway. [img]graemlins/thumbdown.gif[/img]

**logic_bomb** · 02-01-2002, 11:49 AM

"That's terrible! All the work we do to put them into loving adoptive homes after their track days, and he gets squashed by a Corolla."

hahahahahaha lmao!!!! [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

**raitchison** · 02-01-2002, 01:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by InsertCleverNameHere:
Also, I'd imagine that many Explorer owners service their vehicles at Jiffy Lube-type places. So, when the lube guy checks the air pressure in the tires I doubt he goes by what Ford recommends, but what is on the tire.<hr></blockquote>

From what I understand following Ford's recommendation for tire pressure was a factor in some of the tire failures. Apparenly Ford had people underinflate their tires to reduce the rollover problem, but it ended up building up too much heat and causing the tread separation. Ford has since changed their recommended tire pressure.

Ford is not always right when it comed to their recommendations, for example they specify 5w20 oild for our Zetec engine that was designed for 10w30.

------------------
Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car"
K&N Cone Filter
Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front
-----

-----
My Home Page
-----
Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

**raitchison** · 02-01-2002, 01:15 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by racerx:
Anyway, if you can tell me how to get my wife, daughter, greyhound and beagle around in my Contour or Focus, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll keep using the Exploder.<hr></blockquote>

That shouldn't be a problem in a wagon, ZX5 or even a ZX3.

Besides a Minivan would kick butt on the Explorer or Focus when it comes to hauling people, animals and stuff and will do it safer, for less money and with better gas mileage.

------------------
Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car"
K&N Cone Filter
Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front
-----

-----
My Home Page
-----
Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

**biker16** · 02-01-2002, 01:27 PM

Thanks P51 for the update.

Ford snaches victory from defeat.

**SilverSVT** · 02-01-2002, 01:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by raitchison:

Ford is not always right when it comed to their recommendations, for example they specify 5w20 oild for our Zetec engine that was designed for 10w30.
<hr></blockquote>

I'm Curious to where you got this info from? I know that nearly every car since the early 1990's recommends using 5w30 oil in it. I know theres been several incidents with the 4.6 V-8 and people putting 10W30 in it and them balloning oil fliters or causing other internal damage to the engine from running a "heavier" weight oil in them.

Scott

**raitchison** · 02-01-2002, 01:31 PM

In the 1990s they recommeded 5w30 or 10w30 (at least in my 1990 Escort), if you lived where it got hot you were supposed to run 10w30 and if it was cold then 5w30.

------------------
Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car"
K&N Cone Filter
Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front
-----

-----
My Home Page
-----
Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

**Shiva Chaos** · 02-01-2002, 01:32 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by racerx:
Anyway, if you can tell me how to get my wife, daughter, greyhound and beagle around in my Contour or Focus, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll keep using the Exploder.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: racerx ]<hr></blockquote>

crowbar.. and lube..

**SilverSVT** · 02-01-2002, 05:59 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by raitchison:

That shouldn't be a problem in a wagon, ZX5 or even a ZX3.

Besides a Minivan would kick butt on the Explorer or Focus when it comes to hauling people, animals and stuff and will do it safer, for less money and with better gas mileage.
<hr></blockquote>

But its a MINIVAN ! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Scott

**raitchison** · 02-01-2002, 06:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by SilverSVT:

But its a MINIVAN ! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Scott<hr></blockquote>

Yep but I think the Minivan is a cooler and more masculine vehicle than an SUV, when I see a guy in an SUV I assume 1 of 2 things:

1. He's Gay
2. He's trying to compensate for an "inadequacy"

I'll take the minivan any day of the week.

------------------
Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car"
K&N Cone Filter
Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front
-----

-----
My Home Page
-----
Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

**racerx** · 02-01-2002, 10:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by raitchison:
That shouldn't be a problem in a wagon, ZX5 or even a ZX3.<hr></blockquote>

Umm, Raitch...please, educate me. How would you go about this? Either you don't have any children, don't have dogs, or most probably, don't know what you're talking about.

I have one daughter. We'll eventually (in about a year, most likely) have another child. That's both back seats taken. The beagle mix is 35 pounds, and I guess could sit on a seat if she didn't want to move at all. The greyhound is 42 inches tall, all legs, close to 80 pounds, and would not fit worth a damn in either my ZX3 or our Contour. If we're travelling, I suppose we should then strap all of our luggage on the roof, as there is now no space whatsoever inside. Or maybe that's where you would have me put the dogs? The kids, maybe?

God forbid you actually admit an SUV has any sort of positive points. The Focus has a ton of room inside for its size, but to insinuate there's as much room as an Explorer is assinine. I'd be happy to measure it out and take some side by side pics, if you'd like. A wagon has a little more room in the back than the ZX3 but is no taller, and if anything I would guess the ZX5 actually has a slightly smaller hatch area than either.

Yes, a minivan would have been a more logical choice, and it's what I lobbied for. Since it's primarily my wife's car, though, she had final say. I'm not going to tell her what she has to drive every day any more than I want her telling me not to get a little two door economy car to have fun with. That said, the Explorer will probably be replaced by a Honda Odyssey eventually as the family gets bigger.

But, I guess just to go along with the image you have of the world, if you see me in the Explorer, I'm gay.

And I have a two inch pee pee. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: racerx ]

02-01-2002, 02:36 AM	#1
biker16 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Posts: 4,710	Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Iwon.com <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Thursday January 31, 10:28 PM EST BARSTOW, Calif. (Reuters) - A California jury ruled on Thursday that Ford Motor Co.'s Explorer sport utility vehicle is "defective by design," in what was thought to be the first time Ford was found liable for manufacturing and shipping a faulty Explorer model. A Barstow, California jury ruled 10 to 2 on Thursday evening in favor of Agop and Catherine Gozukara, whose four-door 1994 Ford Explorer rolled over on a California highway three months after they bought it in 1997. Agop Gozukara suffered severe leg injuries in the accident and his wife was paralyzed for life, their attorneys said. "This is the first time in history that a jury has found this vehicle to be defective in design, in that it has a propensity to roll over," said Garo Mardirossian, attorney for the plaintiffs. "The floodgates have now opened up," he said. "It's not a Firestone Tire problem. It's a car problem." A Ford spokesman said he was not familiar with the case and could not immediately comment. Plaintiffs' lawyers said the potion of the trial in which financial damages are set will begin on Tuesday. Ford has struggled with issues related to its best-selling Explorer sport utility model since August 2000, when Japanese tire maker Bridgestone Corp. said it would recall 6.5 million Firestone tires fitted mainly on Explorer vehicles. Ford later said it would replace all 13 million Firestone Wilderness AT tires on its vehicles because of "substantial failure risk." The U.S. government has said more than 200 people died from accidents linked to the tires or to Ford vehicles. Ford claimed the safety problems at issue were caused by Firestone tires, while Firestone blamed the accidents on the Explorer. On Thursday, the California jury ruled not only that the Ford Explorer model involved in the case was defective, but that it was faulty when Ford shipped it, according to a release issued by the plaintiff's attorneys. Ford's redesigned 2002 four-door Explorer posted rollover ratings comparable to other sport utilities, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reported last fall. A separate NHTSA investigation found the rollover risk for Explorers was no greater than other sport utility vehicles during incidents of tire tread separations or blowouts. ©2001 Reuters Limited.<hr></blockquote> [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: biker16 ]</p>

02-01-2002, 06:45 AM	#2
FlaFocus [FJ] Addict Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Your Anus Posts: 13,111	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Thats not right, it was both their fault not just Ford.

02-01-2002, 07:46 AM	#3
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,601	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit If you really think it's an Explorer design flaw, you might want to check this out: www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/columns/2001/January/200101_steeringcolumn.xml?&page=1 For the lazy, C&D rigged the tire to rapidly deflate at a drag strip, and worked their way to the point that they could pop the tire at 70mph, with their hands off the steering wheel, and the vehicle tracked straight. Hmm... I especially like the plaintiffs' lawyer's remark about "opening the floodgates." I could almost see the slot machine $$$ spinning in his eyes. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 08:10 AM	#4
V Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: (V) Burbs of Chicago, IL USA Posts: 3,503	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit I read that article when it came out. I am still a firm believer that if you put a driver who does not pay attention/ doesnt know how to handle a LARGE automobile then you are going to have problems. All of these (sorry but this is bad) soccer moms driving around in the biggest SUV they can get talking on their cell phones running red lights (I almost got nailed yesterday) is a problem and it is only getting worse. I swear like 60% of the cars I see are SUV's. Nothing like driving a car that gets 18mpg around town by yourself. But I forgot...they need the space [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: V ]</p>

02-01-2002, 08:21 AM	#5
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,601	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Why is it nobody talks about the 18-year-old kid in the Cavalier talking on a cell phone and running red lights? It's always this statistical "soccer mom in a sport ute." Frankly, I see much more of the former than the latter. Anyway, if you can tell me how to get my wife, daughter, greyhound and beagle around in my Contour or Focus, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll keep using the Exploder. [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: racerx ]</p>

02-01-2002, 08:29 AM	#6
V Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: (V) Burbs of Chicago, IL USA Posts: 3,503	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Its just easy to say soccer mom [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] I am not ragging on all SUV owners...it just cracks me up when I see a late 30's woman driving an Excursion talking on the phone with not a care in the world about what that 2 ton beast of a car is doing. I wouldnt stand a chance in that kind of crash. Driving has become accident avoidance because it seems that drivers will now do the stupid stuff that you would go....no they arent going to do that...ohh wait too late they just did. My g/f has an Explorer so they are alright [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] I am a big fan of a sport wagon though [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 08:38 AM	#7
bitwiz Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Whitby, Ontario Posts: 1,491	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why is it nobody talks about the 18-year-old kid in the Cavalier talking on a cell phone and running red lights? It's always this statistical "soccer mom in a sport ute." Frankly, I see much more of the former than the latter. <hr></blockquote> As someone who just got hit by a soccer mom in a Expedition, I'll keep using the term soccer mom. My Focus is apparently too small to see from the truck [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 09:31 AM	#8
SilverSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 4,975	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Biker posted this over on the BON Forums and Ford Motor Company posted a reply back saying that the Press release was wrong and that they wheren't at fault. How can you sue someone when you drive up a divider and flip your car? ****...a Focus,etc would do the same thing! The Morons didnt even have their seatbelts on! Scott

02-01-2002, 09:59 AM	#9
UNSPACY TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Somewhere in the Blue Ridge Mnt.s of VA Posts: 868	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit It's all about blaming someone else, avoiding responsability, and getting that fat check! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] Then again I'm not sure who is at true fault here but I can only imagion someone hearing a bang and completly freaking out and doing a manuver to cause the vehicle to "trip". A as far as design defect, well you have a box on stilts. How do you think it's gonna react! Proper driver training would help a lot in this country but I doubt we'll see it happen. [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: UNSPACY ]</p>

02-01-2002, 11:18 AM	#10
InsertCleverNameHere Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,278	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Two points I have wondered about when condsidering the Ford/Firestone debacle. Seat belts. I wonder how many people who died in Explorers were not wearing them. Also, I'd imagine that many Explorer owners service their vehicles at Jiffy Lube-type places. So, when the lube guy checks the air pressure in the tires I doubt he goes by what Ford recommends, but what is on the tire. Hmmmm These two factors are not addressed in the "stats" of Explorer rollover-related deaths. They just correlate the vehicle with the accident. There is more to consider, IMO. [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: InsertCleverNameHere ]</p>

02-01-2002, 11:37 AM	#11
logic_bomb TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 173	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit i agree that suvs are generally useless. My soon to be mother in law drives a 2001 excursion LM 4x4 V10. she bought it to haul around the kids and her business clients, the four wheel drive was also good for when it snowed. Now that all her kids are out of the house she will be recieving(sp?) her 2003 Thunderbird. however she did total a poor innocent corolla by rear ending it while yaking on her cell. She hit the poor toyota so hard, it was propelled forward into the back of a greyhound. The worst part is that she is an ex cop so you would think that she would know how to drive. Most husbands buy their wives SUVs because although they are very cumborsome they can pretty much take out anything this side of a mac truck in a wreck. That why my fiance got an explorer. She can't drive for ***** and i want her to be as safe as possible. p.s. in the meantime she is going to driving classes so she won't kill anyone or flip the damned thing. When she first got it i could have sworn she was under the impression that it was a 360 Modena the was she was taking turns. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 11:40 AM	#12
Wedge1212 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 5,089	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit well i also believe that the tires had an inadiquate speed rating for todays driving....I dunno i just heard something like that. But i think its the drivers fault. There's no way in hell that a blown tire is gonna flip a car unless you one of the following. 1. stupid 2. high 3. stupid 4. talking on your phone and operating the wheel with your feet 5. sleeping 6. 3 yrs. old 7. stupid 8. failed your driving test more than 2 times 9. stupid 10. really really f'n stupid Well, I just think some people have a difficult time driving SUV's cause they dont realize that those cars are sooo top heavy and massive body roll. When I have to drive my parents navigator every now and then it takes me some time to get used to it cause im used to my lowered focus, a BMW 528i, or a S2000. But granted i havent flipped the navi. We've had tires blow out on that thing and noooo problems. So i think it all comes down to driver stupidity. Wether its a soccor mom or dad or 16-99yr old. People are either inadiquately trained to opperate their vehicle or they do not know the limitations of their vehicle. The drivers knowledge of a vehicles limits is very important. I havent met the limitations of the focus yet but i know they're not spectacular. Speed/acceleration wise its getting there but handling wise...it'll never be my probe. But anyways I think what happend to those rejects who had blow outs was the following. 1. tire blows out 2. driver cranks the wheel one direction and majorly over copensates 3. car flips killing everyone inside and ford gets the blame for some jackass who doesnt know that you put both hands on the wheel and make slight adjustments as nessccary to keep your car from doing a 180 / 360 or flipping.

02-01-2002, 11:44 AM	#13
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,601	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by logic_bomb: She hit the poor toyota so hard, it was propelled forward into the back of a greyhound.<hr></blockquote> That's terrible! All the work we do to put them into loving adoptive homes after their track days, and he gets squashed by a Corolla. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbdown.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 11:47 AM	#14
logic_bomb TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 173	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit arggghhh!!! god i hate firestone. ever since this fiasco came out to the public i've had hundreds of people ask me if they are going to die. i work at NTB (national tire and battery) and i had to deal with that ***** for the better part of last year. anyhoo. the firestone tires were not blowing out as everyone seems to believe. The tread would actually become unbonded from the carcass of the tire and wrap itself around the axle, subsequently locking it up (then the tire would blow out as it's squishy inards were drug across the pavement). This is why car and drivers (or was it motortrend?) test of the explorer never resulted in a roll over. they were simulating a blow out. Firestone tires were crap anyway. [img]graemlins/thumbdown.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 11:49 AM	#15
logic_bomb TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Houston Posts: 173	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit "That's terrible! All the work we do to put them into loving adoptive homes after their track days, and he gets squashed by a Corolla." hahahahahaha lmao!!!! [img]graemlins/lol.gif[/img]

02-01-2002, 01:11 PM	#16
raitchison Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: West Hills, CA, Canada Posts: 3,073	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by InsertCleverNameHere: Also, I'd imagine that many Explorer owners service their vehicles at Jiffy Lube-type places. So, when the lube guy checks the air pressure in the tires I doubt he goes by what Ford recommends, but what is on the tire.<hr></blockquote> From what I understand following Ford's recommendation for tire pressure was a factor in some of the tire failures. Apparenly Ford had people underinflate their tires to reduce the rollover problem, but it ended up building up too much heat and causing the tread separation. Ford has since changed their recommended tire pressure. Ford is not always right when it comed to their recommendations, for example they specify 5w20 oild for our Zetec engine that was designed for 10w30. ------------------ Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car" K&N Cone Filter Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front ----- ----- My Home Page ----- Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

02-01-2002, 01:15 PM	#17
raitchison Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: West Hills, CA, Canada Posts: 3,073	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by racerx: Anyway, if you can tell me how to get my wife, daughter, greyhound and beagle around in my Contour or Focus, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll keep using the Exploder.<hr></blockquote> That shouldn't be a problem in a wagon, ZX5 or even a ZX3. Besides a Minivan would kick butt on the Explorer or Focus when it comes to hauling people, animals and stuff and will do it safer, for less money and with better gas mileage. ------------------ Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car" K&N Cone Filter Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front ----- ----- My Home Page ----- Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

02-01-2002, 01:27 PM	#18
biker16 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Posts: 4,710	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit Thanks P51 for the update. Ford snaches victory from defeat.

02-01-2002, 01:28 PM	#19
SilverSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 4,975	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by raitchison: Ford is not always right when it comed to their recommendations, for example they specify 5w20 oild for our Zetec engine that was designed for 10w30. <hr></blockquote> I'm Curious to where you got this info from? I know that nearly every car since the early 1990's recommends using 5w30 oil in it. I know theres been several incidents with the 4.6 V-8 and people putting 10W30 in it and them balloning oil fliters or causing other internal damage to the engine from running a "heavier" weight oil in them. Scott

02-01-2002, 01:31 PM	#20
raitchison Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: West Hills, CA, Canada Posts: 3,073	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit In the 1990s they recommeded 5w30 or 10w30 (at least in my 1990 Escort), if you lived where it got hot you were supposed to run 10w30 and if it was cold then 5w30. ------------------ Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car" K&N Cone Filter Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front ----- ----- My Home Page ----- Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

02-01-2002, 01:32 PM	#21
Shiva Chaos [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: under your bed Posts: 7,331	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by racerx: Anyway, if you can tell me how to get my wife, daughter, greyhound and beagle around in my Contour or Focus, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll keep using the Exploder. [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: racerx ]<hr></blockquote> crowbar.. and lube..

02-01-2002, 05:59 PM	#22
SilverSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 4,975	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by raitchison: That shouldn't be a problem in a wagon, ZX5 or even a ZX3. Besides a Minivan would kick butt on the Explorer or Focus when it comes to hauling people, animals and stuff and will do it safer, for less money and with better gas mileage. <hr></blockquote> But its a MINIVAN ! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Scott

02-01-2002, 06:05 PM	#23
raitchison Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: West Hills, CA, Canada Posts: 3,073	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SilverSVT: But its a MINIVAN ! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Scott<hr></blockquote> Yep but I think the Minivan is a cooler and more masculine vehicle than an SUV, when I see a guy in an SUV I assume 1 of 2 things: 1. He's Gay 2. He's trying to compensate for an "inadequacy" I'll take the minivan any day of the week. ------------------ Rainforest Green ZX3 5 Speed "Kona Car" K&N Cone Filter Tint 51% Rear / 71% Front ----- ----- My Home Page ----- Founding Member and Earl of Team Slow: SoCal (SlowCal)

02-01-2002, 10:42 PM	#24
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,601	Re: Ford Loses/wins Explorer Rollover Civil Suit <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by raitchison: That shouldn't be a problem in a wagon, ZX5 or even a ZX3.<hr></blockquote> Umm, Raitch...please, educate me. How would you go about this? Either you don't have any children, don't have dogs, or most probably, don't know what you're talking about. I have one daughter. We'll eventually (in about a year, most likely) have another child. That's both back seats taken. The beagle mix is 35 pounds, and I guess could sit on a seat if she didn't want to move at all. The greyhound is 42 inches tall, all legs, close to 80 pounds, and would not fit worth a damn in either my ZX3 or our Contour. If we're travelling, I suppose we should then strap all of our luggage on the roof, as there is now no space whatsoever inside. Or maybe that's where you would have me put the dogs? The kids, maybe? God forbid you actually admit an SUV has any sort of positive points. The Focus has a ton of room inside for its size, but to insinuate there's as much room as an Explorer is assinine. I'd be happy to measure it out and take some side by side pics, if you'd like. A wagon has a little more room in the back than the ZX3 but is no taller, and if anything I would guess the ZX5 actually has a slightly smaller hatch area than either. Yes, a minivan would have been a more logical choice, and it's what I lobbied for. Since it's primarily my wife's car, though, she had final say. I'm not going to tell her what she has to drive every day any more than I want her telling me not to get a little two door economy car to have fun with. That said, the Explorer will probably be replaced by a Honda Odyssey eventually as the family gets bigger. But, I guess just to go along with the image you have of the world, if you see me in the Explorer, I'm gay. And I have a two inch pee pee. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: racerx ]</p>