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Old 10-23-2001, 09:11 PM   #1
biker16
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Default Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

From Automotive news

those bastards have cut off public access to thier site. This is all I have.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
As a new family of aluminum inline-four engines developed by Mazda Motor Corp. for the Ford group goes into production, Mazda engineers can barely contain their pride.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It goes on to say how Ford and mazda use one engine block and achutature to make 200 differnt variants of the engine and how they produced an ,State of the art, inline 4 at less cost than the engines it replaces, they used the Zetec as the primary example.

The article also states that the SPI is now being phased out in Dearborn and the Zetec will be very soon. We will See.

I have to reread the article to memorize it.

this ends your Duratec HE update.



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Old 10-23-2001, 09:27 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

Memorize? Can't you copy and paste the article to a clipboard, or if its a picture with text, just download the pic? Hell, take a screen shot!

So I don't understand, are you saying the Duratec HE is better than the Zetec? JK! That isn't surprising that in improving the engine that they could also make it less expensive to manufacture. But that doesn't mean that no cost would be involved in dropping the old engine and having the new one up and running for the 2003 model year. Its a better engine, but how can they still sell so many SPIs? The Zetec runs smoother and produces more torque and horsepower with a minimal difference in price, and granted a small drop in fuel economy. But most people don't care. I have no doubts that the new Duratec HE will be an improvement in just about every respect.

BTW, by "achutature" I assume you mean architecture? I always mess that one up and Floccinauncinihlipilification (best word ever) too.

[This message has been edited by Ducman69 (edited 10-23-2001).]
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Old 10-23-2001, 10:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ducman69:
Memorize? I don't understand. Can't you copy and paste the article to a clipboard, or if its a picture with text, just download the pic? Hell, take a screen shot!

So I don't understand, are you saying the Duratec HE is better than the Zetec? JK! That isn't surprising that in improving the engine that they could also make it less expensive to manufacture. But that doesn't mean that no cost would be involved in dropping the old engine and having the new one up and running for the 2003 model year. Its a better engine, but how can they still sell so many SPIs? The Zetec runs smoother and produces more torque and horsepower with a minimal difference in price, and granted a small drop in fuel economy. But most people don't care. I have no doubts that the new Duratec HE will be an improvement in just about every respect.

BTW, by "achutature" I assume you mean architecture? I always mess that one up and Floccinauncinihlipilification (my favorite word) too.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cannot pull up the article online because I refuse to pay $89 for a subscription. so I will go to the library and read the article again, and yes memorize it.

Ford subcontracts the heads of the engines. the only major parts made by ford are the block and the crankshaft.

the S-VT heads are made in Japan and shipped to the US for use on the Mazda 6. All variants share the same intake and exhaust manifolds so the humble 115hp 1.8 uses the manifolds as the 175hp 2.3.

The fitting of the engine is expensive but they should think of it as an investment, not an expense. The sooner they fit the engine to the Focus the more money they save by charging more money for the cheaper engine. The Focus will be the last user of the Zetec and the SPI.

To me it is a missed opportunity Ford should have fitted the engines a year ago or they did not. so now the SVT uses an expensive version of the Zetec E and Ford continues to pay ~600 workers to build 200,000 SPIs. instead of using a far cheaper engine in the SVT (that is why the SE-R is so cheap) and paying ~200 workers to build 350,000 engines a year. a little long-term planning can go a long way.

How much money would Focus owners save if Duratec HE was in the Focus now?
1.8 42mpg vs spi 37mpg spi
2.0 40mpg vs zetec 33mpg
8000 miles between oil changes vs 5000 miles.

Someone do a Cost to Benefit analysis on this please.

------------------
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WHERE IS MY DURATEC?
you have 780,000 all I want is one.
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

Yup, Mazda was given the plum assignment of coming up with the next I4 engines, for used by Mazda, Ford, and possibly others within FoMoCo's domain.

Their's is the next 2.3L...not the Ford unit.

That motor has already been announced for the 626 replacement (the 6) and the next Protege / Protege-5 due out in early 2003.

While the 6 will have the 2.3L I4 and a 3.0L V-6, the Protege twins will have the current 2.0L and the new 2.3L.

Rick
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:57 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>so I will go to the library and read the article again, and yes memorize it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh, gotcha. Welcome to the Jet Rick.
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Old 10-24-2001, 11:44 AM   #6
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

People keep forgetting that the reason the Duratec HE isn't in he 2002 Focus is because of the SVT.

Ford needed to develop an SVT Focus in a very short amount of time. The SVE team hat a lot more experience on the Zetec and there simply wasn't time to develop a Duratec based SVT engine.

Once the Zetec was selected for the SVT Ford made the political decision to push back deployment of the Duratec HE until 2004, this was a 100% political decision, it's hard to justify an 170Hp SVT based on the low tech Zetec and offer a mush cheaper Focus ZX3 with a 140Hp Duratec HE. They also couln't switch to the Duratec in 2003 because that would be only a one model year (partial year at that) run for the Zetec based SVT.

Ford wants to put the Duratec HE in the Focus almost as much as we want it there.

I would look in 2004 for the Duratec to come out in the Focus and a new Focus SVT with a Duratec HE based engine pushing at least 175Hp, maybe as much as 185Hp.

I already have my sights set on a 2005 SVT.

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Old 10-24-2001, 11:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

Last I heard, Ford has put Mazda in charge of "small engine develpment" for the entire company now.

Smart move. The Zetec engine is Fords best 4cyl. effort to date and it is mearly adequate compared to Mazda's lineup of 4cyl. engines, especially the high-compression and turbo-units from overseas.

I think you will see Mazda have a LOT more influence over the next Focus which will also be the platform for a few other cars in the Ford stable of brands (next Protege, 40-series Volvos, etc.)

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Old 10-24-2001, 06:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

Well, sounds to me like I should just go ahead and get a 2000 Focus, then in 2006, trade up for a new/used Duratec (also the year I will hopefully graduate from college).
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Old 10-24-2001, 07:00 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

I'm hoping to trade-in for new re-designed DuratecHE based focus in 2004.
I hope we'll get 2.3 Duratec HE with ~150hp.
New suspension (if even better than current)will be a blast!
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Old 10-24-2001, 08:19 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

This is long, but worth the read. It outlines the fate of Mazda within FoMoCo's domain, and how Mazda will play in the next Protege / Protege-5 / Focus / S-40 / V-50 and other shared models.

Rick
--------------

Reinventing Mazda

Ford’s Japanese affiliate retools
virtually its entire product line

Business in Japan being what it is, it’s not every day that a Japanese automaker pulls the covers off a range of still secret models and shows all to the press. But to selected audiences in Yokohama, Frankfurt, and New York over the past two months, that’s just Mazda has done.

There are two reasons for the sudden burst of glasnost. First, Mazda has no new full-change models to roll out in 2001, only freshenings and special editions. So, with that in mind, the new model showcase was one way, to quote president Mark Fields, of keeping Mazda out there “on everyone’s radar screens.”

Second, the structure of Mazda’s relationship with Ford has now fallen into place.

Mazda says it will release 36 new products over the coming three years on four new architectures or platforms – three of which will be shared with Ford. The four new platforms are expected to account for at least 70 percent of Mazda’s global production – about 800,000 units – by 2003.

The way Mazda put this product out on the market has now been completely redrawn, thinks to the Ford connection. The new scenario sees all volume models from here on developed in some major way with Ford, be it platforms, engines, factory production lines – and in some cases, a combination of all three all at the same time. The Ford tie-up means development cost per model can be cut from ten to 50 percent, depending on the program. Still, Mazda expects to increase spending on product development by 30 percent a year through 2004, compared with the past five years.

Within the Ford family, Mazda is now the “global centre of excellence” for developing mid-size (626 class) front-wheel-drive vehicle architectures and large capacity I-4 engines for the Ford group. Each is a fairly sizable responsibility, which means Mazda is now working as much for Ford as it is for itself.

At the other end of the scale, Dearborn recognizes that Mazda has a real ability with sport/specialty models like the MX-5 Miata and the upcoming RX-8, so Hiroshima is being left to develop these niche programs essentially on its own.

As for 36 new products, 16 will be earmarked for Japan, 11 for North America, and nine for Europe and Australia. Although there will be some doubling up (as in when a model makes its debut in the three different markets and therefore counts as threes models out of 36), Mazda’s product offensive is still a major undertaking. Models, powertrains, designs – the whole package is new from here on.

At the coming-out party to talk about 2002-2004, Mazda didn’t show everything. But redesigns of three core products – Demio, 323/Familia/Protegé, and 626/Capella – were revealed, along with the exciting 280bhp rotary-engined, four-door RX-8 that Mazda previewed in January at the Detroit show.

In the B (subcompact) class, the Demio will share a number of platform components with Ford’s next-generation Fiesta. In the C (compact) class, the 323/Familia/Protegé will share pieces with the next-generation Focus. And in the C/D (mid-size) class, the 626/Capella will share underbody parts with the next Mondeo.

Mazda also continues to shift more production from its home plants in Japan to Ford facilities in North America and Europe, in part to shield it from exchange-rate fluctuations.

Following is a rundown of the key future product actions at Mazda, compiled from the official press functions as well as from unofficial sources in Europe, Asia, and North America:

Demio: The redesigned Demio, also known internally as the “global small car,” is to be launched in May 2002 in the Japanese domestic market. Its European startup is slated in early 2003, but the company has no plans for North American sales.

The current five-door model, sold in export markets as the 121 (last seen in North America as the Festiva /Aspire), was introduced in 1996 as a quick and dirty redo of the virtually unsaleable Autozam Revue four-door sedan. It has been a huge success in Japan, having sold a whisker under 400,000 units since its debut and has long since overtaken the Familia to become Mazda’s domestic bestseller. Considering its popularity, Hiroshima is not messing too much with the Demio script. But while the same small, cheeky five-door MPV theme carries over, the new model promises a larger, sportier interior together with a neater exterior style. The company even is considering badging this model the Demio Classic, while considering production of a slightly more radically styled counterpart that would also carry the Demio name.

Mazda says the 2002 Demio has all-new powertrains, including new 1.3-ltire and 1.5-litre aluminum-block engines mated to a continuously variable transmission. For the key European market, Mazda is planning different engines: 1.4-litre and 1.6-litre gasoline engines along with a new 1.4-litre common-rail diesel. A direct-injection gasoline engine option is al-so planned.

323/Familia/Protegé: Next size up form the Demio is the 323/Familia/Protegé. Its replacement is scheduled to hit the market in mid-2003 and is referred to internally as “compact car.” The new 323/Familia/Protegé will share its floorplan and much of the suspension geometry with the Ford Focus, although it appears that Mazda will introduce a number of changes to the Ford underbody architecture that will not appear on the Focus until the latter model is redesigned in 2004.

Under the lights, Mazda revealed a highly stylized four-door sedan body for the next 323 that borrows a lot of the imagery of the rotary-powered RX-8 flag-ship. The new car combines the sporty look of a coupe with the convenience and comfort of a sedan, but, as now, a five-door hatchback derivative will also be offered. Both sedan and hatchback will be marketed in North America.

This five-door hatch will be Mazda’s second production model for Europe and, reportedly, Mazda is pushing hard to build the car with Ford in Germany, seeing that as a way to build up the quality and high-tech image among European buyers.

New powertrains are promised, ranging from 1.4 to 2.3 litres. For Japan, engines are expected to be new low-emission 1.5-litre and 2.3-litre gasoline units and a 1.7-litre turbo-diesel. Europe can expect at least a base 1.4-litre unit (likely shared with the Demio), but the main action may well be with an all-new 2.0-litre diesel. For North America, Mazda will again offer only gasoline engines, including the 1.4-litre, a 2.0-litre, and a range-topping 2.3-litre unit.

626/Capella: One of motordom’s great underrated cars, the 626/Capella gets a major redesign in spring 2002. As now, Mazda will offer four-door sedan, five-door hatchback, and wagon variants in this class, although only Japan and Europe will get all three body styles.

Up to a point, the sleek styling of the 2002 wagon redesign is reflected in the MX Sport Tourer, the appealing 2.0-litre gasoline-electric hybrid crossover concept vehicle that Mazda revealed at the 2001 Geneva show. Cabin design as well as sheetmetal will lift the 626 range up form the mass ranks of Japanese middle-market players, and we can expect a big jump in quality and craftsmanship too, Mazda says. The new range will also be longer, wider, and more powerful than the current generation.

Going forward, Ford will adopt this midsized platform for the next Mondeo, although whether they will go with the new Mazda suspension setup of front double wishbones and rear multi-link axle remains to be seen.

Again, powertrains will be all new and will include 1.8- and 2.0-litre gasoline engines, a bigger 2.3-litre unit with variable valve timing, and a 2.0-litre common-rail direct-injection diesel. Some markets will also see a high-performance 280bhp variant with a turbo-charged 2.3-litre engine and AWD. For North America, Mazda will offer a variable-cam 3.0-litre V-6 coupled to a five-speed transmission, as well as the smaller 2.3-litre I-4 engine. The new-generation 626 sedan will continue to be assembled at Ford’s Flat Rock, Michigan, plant, and the new 626 wagon will be imported from Japan.

MX Sport Tourer: Not slated until late 2004, a production version of the slick MX Sport Tourer could serve as an advanced-technology showcase for Mazda.

The Geneva concept was powered by a 2.0-litre variable-valve-timing engine linked an electric motor and a new type of four-wheel-drive system. This hybrid system also included a toroidal continuously variable transmission (CVT).

The production model, which could share platform bits with Ford’s upcoming Global CTU (for “Cross Trainer Utility”), is expected to borrow styling cues from the MX Sport Tourer, including the concept’s rear suicide doors.

To be offered in both front- and four-wheel-drive variants, the vehicle will be powered by a new generation of direct-injection powerplants, including a 2.3 litre I-4 and a 3.0-litre V-6.

RX-8: The fourth new vehicle architecture from Hiroshima is the front-engine/rear-wheel-drive sport platform that Mazda is developing – very rapidly – for the RX-8, the company’s iconic new rotary-powered four-door sport sedan. Mazda hopes to begin building the RX-8 in production volumes in late 2002 or early 2003, and it should be one amazing drive.

The conceptually fascination four-door, which made its debut earlier this year in Detroit in near-production-ready trim, could set light to the sports-car segment as the Miata did more than a decade ago. Two major variants will exist: a base model with a 210bhp two-rotor Wankel engine coupled to a five-speed manual or automatic transmission, the latter believed to be the toroidal CVT Mazda showed at the last Tokyo show. There will also be a performance model with the 250bhp version of the same normally aspirated rotary, only coupled to a six-speed manual transmission.

Mazda is keen to avoid the insurance and pricing difficulties that so handicapped the last RX-7 in the key North American market with the new RX-8, which should appear in final trim at the 2002 Detroit show. The company has a lot riding on this one, but it has the stuff to be a category killer.

RX-7: In late 2003, a new fourth-generation RX-7 will appear. Although virtually forgotten in North America, the RX-7 continues to return respectable sales figures in Japan. With this in mind (and an eye towards kick-starting exports), Mazda has a new car coming on line. The normally aspirated two-rotor Wankel engine from the RX-8 will power the redone two-seat coupe.

Mazda has done a good job of protecting details of the new RX-7. There are two stories circulating, one of which is said to have been planted by Hiroshima to maintain suspense for the new car. The information alleged to have been planted indicates that the next-generation car will maintain the floorplan of the current car, re-jigged to share some RX-8 and next-generation Miata suspension components, as well as the 250bhp powertrain from the RX-8. The other plan (rumored to be much closer to the mark) is that the new RX-7 will ride of a version of the Miata-RX-8 platform sized between the two other models. To ensure product stratification, the RX-7 will exist solely as a coupe, and the Miata will continue as an open car.

MX-5 Miata: Although sales aren’t likely to start before early 2004, the 2003 Toyko show is likely to be where the next-generation MX-5 Miata will be presented to the public. To spread costs of Mazda’s much-copied traditional sports car, the new RX-8 will donate a large number of underbody components to the next incarnation of this ever-popular two-seat convertible. In the meantime, the current Miata is slated for a mild freshening in 2002.

The new Miata retains the front-engine, rear-wheel-drive layout of the present model and will have a slightly roomier interior. Engine availability will consist of a 128bhp 1.6-litre base engine for Japan, Europe, and southeast Asia, with a VVT 2.0-litre four (essentially the same engine that will see service in the next 626, although in a different state of tune with about 165bhp) replacing the current 1.8-litre as the top power option. The stories of a rotary-engined Miata are only stories – more or less – although there continues to be considerable internal discussion about the possibility of a high-end cabriolet powered by a two-rotor Wankel to tangle with the Porsche Boxster and others.

A related rumour has Ford getting a sister model with a conventional reciprocal engine. On paper, it looks smart, not least because Ford is reportedly anxious to have a car like the Miata, only bigger, in its own model lineup.

MPV: Introduced in mid-1999, the MPV minivan is to receive a freshening this summer – the sort of midlife make-over that Japanese buyers expect. Reprofiled bumpers, new headlamps and grille, and different taillamps and wheels will keep the MPV spotters happy, and owners will enjoy some driveline refinements as part of the package. The face-lifted MPV should arrive in North America and other export markets this fall as a 2002 model, fitted with a new and more powerful 3.0-litre V-6. An all-new MPV is under study for possible launch in mid-2004, al-though there’s no final program approval at this point. Development most likely would be twinned with that of the next-generation Ford Galaxy in Europe, which is to shift its current Volkswagen underpinnings to a new Mondeo-based platform.

Tribute: Sharing its platform with the Ford Escape, the Tribute SUV is now assembled in Kansas City and Hiroshima. It is slated for a mild freshening in 2003. A total redesign of the Tribute/Escape isn’t expected until two years later, when the twins are expected to share the new corporate U1 platform with the next-generation Land Rover Freelander.

Millenia: Sometime in 2002, the Millenia near-luxury sedan – the sole survivor of the stillborn Amati division, Mazda’s would-be-Lexus experiment – will be phased out of production. There’s no replacement scheduled for the Japanese market, although industry chatter suggests the new MX Sport Tourer could fill the Millenia’s slot at the top of Mazda’s product range in North America.

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Old 10-25-2001, 07:44 PM   #11
biker16
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

read the article again.

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
mazda says the I4 will be in the Focus, taurus, mondeo, ranger, escape, and the mazda 6, MPV, tribute, primacy
developed at a cost of $1.2 billion
ford to continue to use Zetec in high performance applications for racing and performance variants (SVT, ST170, and RS)
10% improvement in NVH, economy, emissions, perfomance.
60% of engine compnents are contracted out to suppliers.[/list]
the next taurus will get the 2.3 it seems, for 30-34mpg. not bad.



------------------
Black Focus SE sport
WHERE IS MY DURATEC?
you have 780,000 all I want is one.
"From this point on the world is in Focus"
MODs: Rear dome light, under seat CD changer, Cabin air filter, and S2 shocks.
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Old 10-25-2001, 10:20 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mazda confirms new I4 cheaper than the ZETEC E.

aaaahhhh! my eyes!

very interesting. i feel that the duratec I4 may prove to be too little too late for ford. while it is an excellent engine, vw has the 180hp 1.8t, toyota has been using the relatively high efficiency 1zzfe 1.8 dohc in the corolla, celica, and mr2 for a while, honda has the (new k series?) in the si producing 160 hp... i think they will need to get the claimed output up to 150hp by the time the cars hit showrooms, to be competitive.

a duratec he based svt focus would prove to be very interesting!
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