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Old 06-29-2008, 12:28 PM   #1
CaysE
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Wink Finally getting to the audio

It's been a while since I've messed with mobile audio... I think the last thing I did was some sound deadening and speakers in a '94 Taurus like 3 years ago. I've had the Audiophile system in both SVTs I've owned, so I never really felt the need to upgrade.

The bug finally bit, so I picked up a pair of Infinity Perfect 6.5" components off the classifieds forum and am looking forward to some REAL sound in my car.

My plan is to put the 6.5"s in the stock door locations, mount the tweeters on the kickpanels, and hide the crossovers in the dash somewhere. This should keep the wiring simple going to the doors and provide good staging.

Has anyone installed this setup and have pics or tips? I'll be using the stock Audiophile headunit (for now).
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:06 PM   #2
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

what kind of amp will you be using?

I recommend at least a 400 watt RMS 4 channel amp.
Bridge the rear two to a better 8 or 10" inside the SVT box.
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Old 06-29-2008, 04:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foci_Fosho
what kind of amp will you be using?

I recommend at least a 400 watt RMS 4 channel amp.
Bridge the rear two to a better 8 or 10" inside the SVT box.


I concur doctor... That would be a really nice low budget improvement over stock.
Id say look at the elemental designs; nine.4 and the sq 10" they have. its pretty shallow sub and if you buy them both at the same time you get a percentage off
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Old 06-29-2008, 05:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

I will follow this thread closely since I want to do the same... stock headunit but with a little upgraded sound... for me its been at least 5-7 years since i've done anything audio.
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Old 06-29-2008, 05:44 PM   #5
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

No amp for now.
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Old 06-29-2008, 09:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Hey CaysE I strongly recommend you put the tweeters in the A-Pillars rather than the kickpanels. I had tweeters mounted in my kickpanels in my ZX5 for a short time and was not happy with the results, moving them to the pillars was a huge improvement. While you will still be moving the stage forward, putting them in the pillars will do that and raise it at the same time. If you look through the history of sound quality comp vehicles, the pilar location is usually what they go with.
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Old 06-29-2008, 11:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

I have been looking around SQ setups, and the majority seem to be in the kickpanels. LOL
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:46 AM   #8
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Well I'm not going to tell you not to experiment a bit, what you like is all that matters since you have to listen to it every day I'm just making a sugestion. That said I didn't realise you were going to use the factory HU, which changes things.

Usually you'll find kickpanel mounted tweeters in kickpanel mounted pods with another driver as a component set. This is the easiest way to go and a big improvement over stock. It also doesn't require you to gut out your car and cut holes in the interior parts. Separating the tweeter and the midrange driver can be tricky if you don't have time correction built into your head unit. So unless you are getting pods and mounting both parts of the components in the kicks you may be creating a new problem as you're solving the old one.

If you plan on using the audiophile head unit, I would try to keep the tweeter within seven inches of the midrange, in the same panel inside the door even. Then when you replace the head unit with one that includes time correction look into moving the tweeters to a new location. For now it will create a slight echo effect to have everything so far apart. I have six channel time correction through my HU allowing me to tune for the location on every speaker in my car, if I shut it off things sound very different.

In any case have fun with the install and welcome to the hobby.
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Old 06-30-2008, 05:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

I second A pillar mounting location. Much better imaging and raises the soundstage quite a bit.
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Does the time correction apply itself to specific frequency ranges, because the tweets and mids are hooked up to a crossover, not separate channels.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:50 AM   #11
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaysE
Does the time correction apply itself to specific frequency ranges, because the tweets and mids are hooked up to a crossover, not separate channels.
Well usually its just off of rca's, but unless you are going to build kick pods to put the mids as well I would say put them in the a pillar as well. The biggest problem your gonna have is the kappa tweets are huge. My suggestion is to use the side window air defrosters at the corners of the dash or to try and mount them in the door with the woofer. I have mine in there currently although I am working on a set of door pods to improve the imaging a bit. I think if you can get them in the A-pillar go for it it will help out alot. You also need to be mindfull that they arent going to sound really good at all without an amp. They need power and the stocker just wont cut it.
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

They only need power if you want to get pretty loud. At normal listening levels, most systems use very little power, no more than a few watts in some cases. You don't start running into major power issues until after you've crossed the limits of sanity The issue you'll run into then is usually clipping which can be hard on all your parts, and mild clipping is sometimes hard to catch unless you know what you're trying to hear.

As long as CaysE keeps in mind the audiophile unit isn't the greatest platform to base a system around and keeps the volume reasonable it will run the Kappa's just fine.

CaysE, the time correction covers specific output channels on most head units. One for each door and two for the subwoofers. The beauty of the setup is that you can use each of the six channels to work for the individual parts of your components. My particular head unit can be switched to 3-way mode which makes setting thngs a bit easier. Since the head unit also has a pretty robust active crossover (as most do these days) I don't even use in line crossovers with my system. One you get a new head unit, you can take the crossovers that came with the Kapas and use them as door stops. They are made for the masses, a happy medium that will work well in most cars, after you get a new head unit you have the option of fine tuning them yourself and there is a lot of improvement to be found by simply exploring the crossover point.

This is the setup I am using. The numbers aren't exact, I can't remember what everything is set at in the car

EDIT: I forgot to save a layer in photoshop, oops. The circles and rectangles on the side are speakers, the large one being the sub. The top rectangle is the head unit, and the lower two are amplifiers.


The head unit sends a signal through the RCAs to my two amplifiers (one 4 channel for the midrange and midbass, and one 2 channel for the tweeters). The time correction and crossover points are set through the head unit, so all the main speaker amplifiers have to do is amplify the signal. The sub amp has it's own crossover point, set at the amplifier, as well as it's own EQ and time correction settings.

The beauty of built in EQs, time correction and crossovers is that you can adjust them from the listening point, instead of going back to the truck, turning a dial and hoping it worked right but never being sure. In a perfect world I'd be running a much more robust active system like an Alpine PXA-H701 and the faceplate to run it, but that's getting way up there in cost, and I'm poor so screw that
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:52 AM   #13
CaysE
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

LOL dammit, now you got me thinking big dollar ideas again. Damn audio mods!

What amp are you using to power the tweets?
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Oh no, not big dollar, for a 4 channel to run your components a nice used amp will more than suffice. Hell you could almost replicate my system (minus some of my wonky experimental stuff like the flat speakers) for under $500 total easily! My main drivers (Vifa PL) are worth $25-$30 each, my tweeters (Vifa Logic) came in under $30 each and are extremely impressive even comapred to some $200 tweeters. An HU with time correction will slot in around $250-$300 and the 4 channel amplifier (if you even decide need it, most aftermarket HUs will make a huge improvement over stock on thier own) and then all you have left to consider is a sub and amp later on.

Just start simple. Get these Kappas in and running and see how they work. Figure out what you want to do from there. In my experience the best route to go was

- New head unit, go mid range. Most mid range HUs have all the features of the higher up models minus some fancy screens or extra features that may or may not be useful. Time correction, built in EQs and a good crossover are important. I always plug Alpine HUs because I'm used to them, but try them out for yourself and decide from there. Look at about $300 for a good unit with useful features.

- New speakers. Components are a must (you already have them). They cost a bit more than coaxial speakers but the tuning and placement options are worth every penny. It also gives you the option to amplify the tweeters and mids seperately. The first thing I do it switch my HU to 3-way mode which means no rear speakers. That's because I hate the people using my back seats (which is why I put them back there in the first place) and also because rear speakers ruin a good stereo soundstage by drawing everything rearward. By switching to 3-way mode the head unit will adapt itself to better run your front stage. If your rear passengers want music tell them to walk, rotten ingrates.

-Subwoofer/Amplifier. I am not a fan of 5-channel amplifiers. I always dedicate an am to running a sub on it's own. They usually take a much bigger beating than the amp running your speakers so if it dies, you can still have music while you are finding a new sub amp. This is where things will finally start getting more expensive, you need to run the wires and all that fun stuff. There are two ways to do it. Wiring kit worth $20 from Best Buy, or waste $300 to make everything look fancy. They both work the same, one just looks like it works better.

- New custom front stage. Pick parts from the entire world of audio to build your own component set, I went with a 3-way front stage (tweeters, mids, midbass) and went over response graphs, ratings and all that fun stuff to pick parts I think would work well together. I also like wierd and different things so I went with parts that I've never seen used in a car before. By picking parts that work well together, you can get a huge improvement over a boxed set of components, and it doesn't have to be expensive either, you just have to understand what you're looking for from each speaker.

- Surround sound. I never saw the point of this in a car, but if you have a screen for movies, or just really want SS then yeah, you need to buy new parts for each corner as well as the center channels. I'll stick to stereo.

-Media Controller/Car PC - At this point you have probably gone through a few different setups, and want absolute control of the whole thing. This is when you pick up a media controller to fine tune every single piece of the system, or build a car PC that does the same thing through software. When you get here, you'll probably not be reading my posts anymore because you will be too busy reading posts by some actual audio gurus
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Old 06-30-2008, 12:58 PM   #15
CaysE
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Actually, a car PC is my ultimate goal.
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Old 06-30-2008, 02:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

Then the best thing you can do is experiment up to that point.

My ultimate goal is to have no in car head unit, just a plug I can hook my laptop or MP3 player to. That way I can use my center console to house guages and a well planned switch panel which will include the jack for the MP3 player.
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:09 PM   #17
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

i put my tweeters in the door panel behind the door handle/lock the staging is not that bad at all...
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:15 AM   #18
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Default Re: Finally getting to the audio

I would also recommend getting the tweeters out of the kick pannels. They will impact sound stage, and imaging. The driver wouldn't hear a tweeter mounted in the passenger kick, when a passenger is sitting in the vevicle (the same can be said for the passenger, when there is somebody in the driver's seat - driving...). In the doors is a nice location. In front of the door handles can accomodate a large tweeter.

I would also recommend the addition of an amp, and it can be a more basic amp. With a factory head unit, this would be a very noticable upgrade. Your tweeters will gain the most from this.
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