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  1. #1
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    Default Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    Background:
    2001 ZX3 LFQ0
    Red single program SCT chip. I've had problems in the past with the chip working loose and the car shutting completley off. Typically, I just took the key out then removed the chip and re-inserted it. It has happened at least 3 or 4 times in the past two years since I've had the SCT chip in there.

    On my way to work this AM, the car shut off for a split second and a light flashed on the dash(I think it was the ! light. I do know that it is the light second from the left). After that, it seemed to run normally. At lunch, I go out to start the car and at first, nothing. Then after about 5 tries it turned over but didn't start. Now it won't turn over at all.

    The accessories work and the PATS light flashes rapidly with the ignition on.

    I took the chip out and tried to start the car. Nothing.

    I disconnected the battery for a second. Nothing.

    Any idea on what I need to do? After reading the stickey I think its may be the PATS but not sure if I did damage to the computer. Should I take the car to Ford to have the PATS reset and/or do you think I need a new computer?

    I apolagize if this has been covered in the past. I'm sitting at work with a dead car and wanted to try and come up with a plan ASAP. In the meantime, I'll continue searching for more detailed answeres. But any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Eric

  2. #2
    Don't Call Me Gaga!
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    Default Re: PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    In a similar circumstance, I disconnected the battery for a full hour and had the car recover. No idea if that will improve your situation or not, however.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    In a similar circumstance, I disconnected the battery for a full hour and had the car recover. No idea if that will improve your situation or not, however.
    Thanks, for what it's worth...I'll give it a shot.



    And from the stickey...(BTW thanks guys):

    Won't turn over, won't click, won't anything:

    Is there power to the accessories?
    NO - power distribution problem. Verify battery is good and power is making it to the central junction box and fuse box.
    YES continue

    Is the PATS light flashing rapidly?
    NO continue
    YES PATS problem. Key is corrupt or not programmed, reciever is damaged or disconnected. ECU is damaged.

    My guess is that since I've heard that removing a chip with the ignition on can kill the ECU and since I know my chip has worked loose in the past, I probably have a bad ECU. Guess its time to give FocusSalvage a call.

    What's strange though is that the car tried to start that one time. I thought it might be the clutch switch. But since the PATS light is flashing rapidly, I'm figuring its not the clutch switch. Anyone care to speculate as to why it tried to start that one time?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    if your sct has a dial on it put the stock file back on and see if the car starts,Also i would remove the chip and see if the car starts,one of the things that can happen with the pats and a sct is the sct has a setting that causes the pats to be active all the time and disregard the chip in the key.
    Just a FYI if you have a extra key try that one instead but give the car 30 mins with the battery connected before attempting to restart

  5. #5
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    Default Re: PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    if your sct has a dial on it put the stock file back on and see if the car starts,Also i would remove the chip and see if the car starts,one of the things that can happen with the pats and a sct is the sct has a setting that causes the pats to be active all the time and disregard the chip in the key.
    Just a FYI if you have a extra key try that one instead but give the car 30 mins with the battery connected before attempting to restart
    I have an old skool single program red SCT chip. I tried to start the car with the chip removed with no luck.

    If I can find my extra key(since I just moved and I think it is still packed away), I'll try it tonight.

    What's wierd is that when I checked the chip, it seemed to be firmly in place. Its actually held in place with duct tape to keep it from coming loose.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    Just tried it one more time after leaving the battery disconnected for about an hour.

    With the chip removed, accessories work, PATS light flashes rapidly but the car won't turn over. (Normally with the chip removed, the car should at least turn over and try to start. And possibly even run a bit but do to the larger injectors and re-calibrated MAF sensor it won't run for long.)

    Only one thing left to check and that's my spare key that's somewhere at home. Arranged a ride home from work at 4:30 then I'll try and dig up that key and head back to the car in my truck.

    Or what is your guys gut feeling? Should I just have it towed to Ford today to try and have the PATS system reset? But then if I need a new computer, I wonder if they'll let me replace the computer in their parking lot? Because I'm sure not paying somebody to install a computer.

    Is there any other way to determine whether its the PATS system or the computer/ECM itself? Can a scanner tell me anything?

    In the meantime, I guess I'll continue searching for an LFQ0 ECM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    Tried my extra key and no go.

    So before I order a new computer I'll ask one more time, is there any way to diagnose whether its just a PATS problem or the whole computer?

    I borrowed a scanner today and plan on trying it in a bit. But I'm not sure if its going to tell me anything or not. My guess is that it won't tell me much, if anything.

    Again, everyone's help is greatly appreciated.

  8. #8
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    Default Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    OK, feel like I'm talking to my self here a bit...kind of "Pulling a Naz" per say...but anyway.

    I just went out to the car and scanned it. To my amazement, the scanner was able to talk to the computer. It gave me what seemed to be an accurate intake air temp and coolant temp as well as a fuel pressure reading of 53-54. No trouble codes present. That would lead me to believe that the computer is not totally fried? The $300 question is, could it just be the PATS or could the computer be 'partially' fried?

    Anybody?

  9. #9
    Devil's Advocate. Just to cheese you off. ax0n's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here

    It sounds to me like you just need the PATS reprogrammed. Here in team tech, I've seen it happen where the PCM just "forgets" the keys. Not too common but it's happened several times that I can recall.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here

    Aw man, I dunno. I'm sure the dealer can diagnose whether or not the PCM is fried, but what are they gonna charge you for the diagnosis?

    If I were you, I guess I'd have the dealer diagnose it, and authorize them to reset PATS, if that's the problem. But first I'd get a firm quote for replacing the PCM.

    With a new PCM, you'll still need them to reset PATS, right? So I don't think you'll be able to install the PCM yourself. Unfortunately, you can't let them just do it all, either, because you need to chip the new PCM. Either that, or you go back to stock MAF and injectors and disable/bypass the Aerocharger somehow.

    But you might luck out and fix the whole thing with just a PATS reset, thus avoiding all the PCM-swapping headaches.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here

    Yea, its no easy solution is it.

    Over lunch, I stopped by the local dealer and told them my situation. I'm having it towed up there as soon as the tow truck shows up.

    I instructed them to check out the computer and/or reset the PATS as necessary. But told them that I can't afford a new computer from them. They said that was fine and I could replace the computer in the parking lot if need be.

    Cross your fingers for me guys.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here

    Well, the car runs now.

    Can't say exactly what happened. All I can say is what they did to get it running again.

    They first tried to reset the PATS system. It would not work. Then they cleared the keys and re-programmed them. That worked.

    The tech told me that those keys can be very sensitive sometimes. I had recently adopted a magnetic money clip. Possibly a bad choice. He/we thought it might have been the magnet next to the key that caused my problem. But that still doesn't explain why the car momentarrily shut off earlier in that day.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here

    Cool - glad to hear it all worked out.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help please - PATS problem (I think). Where to go from here?

    i have a 2000 ford focus i bought for the 2.L spi engine drove it home and lost the key had everything blocked in i went to the junk yard bought a ignition switch with key put it on found out about pats after a few days trying to figure how to bypass so i could drive it to where im pulling engine i got the bright ideal to go back to said junk yard pulled pcm or whatever you want to call it "computer" installed on my car and it started so $10.50for ing.switch and $11.00 for pcm fixed pats system for under $25 the car was same year and same engine i dont know if i got lucky because other options was tow to dealer and 140 per hour labor plus keys or just pull the engine on my concrete drive way i think this may be a cheap solution if you can find car with same engine and year and it really was less than an hour total work if you dont count the two days trying to come up with a solution


 

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