Tell me about starting rallying

[kimbo305]

Hey, all. I'm still newish to the Focus community, and even newer to FJ. Have had my car down at McNew's more more months than I've owned it (3/5? long story). When it comes back this weekend, it'll be SCed and have a LSD. First on my list is to get a season of autocross and HPDE under my belt. But I think I've always been more attracted to rally driving. It just seems more awesome.

Anyways, I have a few questions:
- are rallycross events the right way to step into rally? It seems a bit steep of a learning curve to try to jump right into Rally Spec Focus.
- I've looked over the rules and know that the SC has to come out if I want it to be to spec. Is this something people have done before -- transitioned from an FI setup to Spec Rally? I know you have to pay to play, but just wanna know if it's something that's kept people from doing it before.
- I can't tell from the rules if a roll cage is required. Is it?

[BigSandwich]

Hello Kimbo305,

RallyX and Rally are too different animals, a fast rally car will not always be a fast rallyx car and visa versa. That being said it is great place to start learning driving skills when you have passed the traction limit of your tires. I take my rally car to rallyx events to goof off and try out crazy driving techniques that I would not do on stage as I am not good enough at them yet.

Yes the SC would have to come off since FI is not allowed in the spec. I do not know of anyone taking a FI car and switching to the spec. All of the Spec Focus rally cars were near stock daily drivers before they became rally cars. You could sell the SC and help pay for your cage

You are required to meet all of the general safety requirements that are outlined in the main rally rule book. You can find that on the NASA Rallysport website http://nasarallysport.com This includes a cage, FIA seats, harnesses, a fire extinguisher, spill kit, triangles, etc.

Where are you located? You should come to a rally and see the cars and talk with the teams or help pit crew. That is probably the best way to get into rally.

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by BigSandwich

Where are you located? You should come to a rally and see the cars and talk with the teams or help pit crew. That is probably the best way to get into rally.

Thanks for the other info; I wasn't aware the Spec Focus regs weren't self contained, but supplemental to NASA Rally regs. I suppose another option about the FI would be to keep the car around after wrecking my first beater rally car and keep it in the Open 2WD Modified 1 class, but that's in the long distant future, so I won't worry about it.

I'm in the Boston area. Haven't seen much in the way of amateur rally around here, but probably because I haven't looked too hard.

[Fogrider]

I run a Focus in Production Class with Rally America. We had 3 Foci at STPR last weekend. Here is a you tube link showing all competitors going by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iwol6Ze-W4
I live about an hour from you. You live about three hours from Team O'Neil Rally School.
www.teamoneil.com New England Forest Rally is next month.
(NER has a very active rallyX schedule if you want check that out.)
Last year Kyle Sarasin took 2nd nationally in Group 5 in a supercharged Focus.
The Focus is a wonderful platform, especially for developing skills. Just because no one yet has gone FI to NA for that intent, doesn't mean you can't.
PM me your contact info if you want to talk.

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by Fogrider

I run a Focus in Production Class with Rally America. We had 3 Foci at STPR last weekend. Here is a you tube link showing all competitors going by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iwol6Ze-W4
I live about an hour from you. You live about three hours from Team O'Neil Rally School.
www.teamoneil.com New England Forest Rally is next month.
(NER has a very active rallyX schedule if you want check that out.)
Last year Kyle Sarasin took 2nd nationally in Group 5 in a supercharged Focus.
The Focus is a wonderful platform, especially for developing skills. Just because no one yet has gone FI to NA for that intent, doesn't mean you can't.
PM me your contact info if you want to talk.

Awesome . I forgot about the Tip O'Neil School. More like, my wallet went into cardiac arrest and repressed the memory. But I'll look at NE Rally, sounds like a good start, at least to being a fan.

[Fogrider]

Originally Posted by kimbo305

Awesome . I forgot about the Tip O'Neil School. More like, my wallet went into cardiac arrest and repressed the memory. But I'll look at NE Rally, sounds like a good start, at least to being a fan.

Do the Winter Safe School for usually less than $300. Its about 65% of the first day of gravel school for less than 1/3 the cost.
If you want to see the rally from places that the regular spectators aren't even permitted to go, consider volunteering to work at least a stage. You will see and learn a lot that will make the transition to competitor easier. I have yet to find one volunteer that hasn't enjoyed it.

[jsundelin]

Originally Posted by kimbo305

Awesome . I forgot about the Tip O'Neil School. More like, my wallet went into cardiac arrest and repressed the memory. But I'll look at NE Rally, sounds like a good start, at least to being a fan.

Your wallet's stress issues have only just begun! I'll second the suggestion to volunteer at a rally. First off, most rallies struggle to find enough volunteers to handle all the tasks that need to be done. Lending a hand when you can is in your long term best interest if you'd like to begin competing. Second, as mentioned, you can learn a lot about how rallies function, especially if you are working a start or finish control. Lastly, if you're spectating, the only opportunity to interact with teams is usually when they are in a hurry. If you are working the event, you'll be amazed at the little tidbits that you can pick up in the course of conversations.

It's true that rally schools are expensive, but they can often be worth it. If you save only one serious accident from something you learned at the school, you'll have paid for it. Since there are usually at least 5 opportunities per rally to have one if you are going at even a modestly competitive speed, it'll usually work out in your benefit. Also, the amount of driving time is about the same (or more) per dollar spent than actually rallying. Keep in mind that if you are averaging 60 mph on a 60 mile event, you're only getting about an hour of actual seat time. It's also a good way to find out if you shouldn't get in the driver's seat at an actual rally.

On a somewhat unrelated note, other than the Lancia 037, there have been very few successful supercharged rally cars, so I'd plan on ditching it, unless you'd like to really stress out your wallet. Also, be sure to take a look at the Rally America and CARS (that's the Canadian Association of Rally Sport) rulebooks if you want to be sure that your car is legal for the maximum number of events.

--
John

[kimbo305]

I'll figure it out in the long run. I didn't know the winter driving program was a segway into rally/low traction driving, so that's first on my checklist. Then a few rallycrosses and rally driving schools. If at that point it's really something for me, I'll sell the SVT and get a new car to build into a rally car. Probably either a Focus or something cheaper like a Neon.

Currently I need to learn how to drive on roads, so need to get experience with HPDE and track days.

[jsundelin]

The SVT doesn't make for too bad of a rally car, so I wouldn't be too quick to discard it. The only real problem is the transmission, or rather, the lack of readily available plate type LSDs for it. If you swap in a MTX-75 with a Kaaz, you'll have a quite capable car with very little effort. All seat time is good, but some things that you'll learn on the track will actually slow you down on gravel. On the other hand, there is a small but growing number of asphalt rallies in the US, and a good rally driver is a good driver on all surfaces. That's what the sport is all about!

--
John

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by jsundelin

The SVT doesn't make for too bad of a rally car, so I wouldn't be too quick to discard it. The only real problem is the transmission, or rather, the lack of readily available plate type LSDs for it. If you swap in a MTX-75 with a Kaaz, you'll have a quite capable car with very little effort.

Someone said they thought Kaaz made an LSD for the Getrag, but I highly doubt it. Selling the SVT would be an emotional thing. I think it would be a bit hard for me to totally change the car around -- brakes, suspension, engine, drivetrain. It would just be weird to have to tear the old car apart. I'd rather just sell it to someone else and have it stay whole.

[BigSandwich]

Better get used to tearing the car apart if you want to rally race. Take the suspension apart after almost every race and because of a failure at the last race I have pulled the transmission for the 2nd time in as many races.

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by BigSandwich

Better get used to tearing the car apart if you want to rally race. Take the suspension apart after almost every race and because of a failure at the last race I have pulled the transmission for the 2nd time in as many races.

That's true. Hopefully I'd see that sooner with volunteering.

[jsundelin]

Originally Posted by kimbo305

Someone said they thought Kaaz made an LSD for the Getrag, but I highly doubt it. Selling the SVT would be an emotional thing. I think it would be a bit hard for me to totally change the car around -- brakes, suspension, engine, drivetrain. It would just be weird to have to tear the old car apart. I'd rather just sell it to someone else and have it stay whole.

I used to like my car too... I drove it very carefully in my first rally, and finished 2nd to last. Then I hated my car... Somehow my results improved dramatically!

--
John

[kimbo305]

Well I bit the bullet and signed up for a 3-day school with Team O'Neil. Will head up there in late October to learn all about it.

[jsundelin]

That's a good way to start!

--
John

[Fogrider]

I have acquired an Open Class car (and did NEFR in it) so my Production Class Focus (race ready) is for sale with tons of spares.

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by Fogrider

I have acquired an Open Class car (and did NEFR in it) so my Production Class Focus (race ready) is for sale with tons of spares.

link?

[Fogrider]

Originally Posted by kimbo305

link?

http://www.specialstage.com/classifi...hp?product=987
Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.

[Silonius]

Kimbo, what these guys have said is spot on. It sounds like you have a goal and a good plan to attain it.

By far the easiest way to get into rallying is to buy a used rally car. I know that's how BigSandwich started and I'm sure most of the other guys too. Get the used rally car, get your tow rig, run a few rallycrosses, volunteer at a few rallies (both on a rally team crew and for the rally itself), take a rally school, take in a few trackdays and then you would probably be ready for a foray into stage rallying.

Edit: Some hillclimbs would be useful too as tarmac stage prep.

I'm slowly working my way towards that goal myself. Good luck! Be sure to tell us how the school went!

[kimbo305]

I might be able to get my hands on a Focus rally car, prepared as Group 2. From a cursory look at the the 2008 Rally Spec Focus rules vs what the car has, it looks like the tires, seats, harnesses, and suspension would have to be replaced to run in RSF. Is it so much cheaper to do events in RSF than other stage rallies that it'd be worth converting the car up front?

[Plan B Racing]

The rules for contingency have changed. Suspension and seats and harnesses I believe are open because DMS and Racetech aren't providing contingency any longer. Tires, wheels, and probably the Rally Brake Kit from Ford Racing are the only remaining contingency companies where you may be required to run their stuff. But you might get a waiver for any of the other stuff and just not be eligible for contingency for Spec Focus which isn't a very big deal all things considered.

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by Plan B Racing

The rules for contingency have changed. Suspension and seats and harnesses I believe are open because DMS and Racetech aren't providing contingency any longer. Tires, wheels, and probably the Rally Brake Kit from Ford Racing are the only remaining contingency companies where you may be required to run their stuff. But you might get a waiver for any of the other stuff and just not be eligible for contingency for Spec Focus which isn't a very big deal all things considered.

all in all good news.
Is this an updated version of the RSF rules?
http://www.rallyspecfocus.com/Rally_...Regs_v08.3.pdf

On page 13 it says all dampers are free but doesn't cover springs.

[Simoniac]

Yes, that's the latest and greatest. Since the original spec called for DMS and DMS were coil-overs in the front, I think it's safe to assume that the springs are open too.

Do it. We'de love to have you join us in RSF.

Can you get it in time for Black River Stages?

Simon
USUKracing.com

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by Simoniac

Yes, that's the latest and greatest. Since the original spec called for DMS and DMS were coil-overs in the front, I think it's safe to assume that the springs are open too.

Do it. We'de love to have you join us in RSF.

Can you get it in time for Black River Stages?

Unlikely I'll get it before november, I think. I'm going to have a serious chat with the owner this Sunday.