Roll Cages

[mattm2001]

Ok, Im researching roll cages. It would be great if some of the guys that allready have the cages done could tell me how much it cost so i could get an idea.. heres a pic of the cage im going to do


Any info is good info

And does anyone know of a cage builder near Cartersville, Ga.. Im about 30 min north of atlanta...

[jsundelin]

If you buy this kit from Custom Cages, it'll run you about $1200 for the kit, and somewhere between $200 and $700 to ship it over here, depending on whether you choose the slow boat or air freight. Figure about 40 hours to install it, typically at $75/hr, or $3000. So, all told, that's about $4400 to $4900.

If you were to buy the tubing locally, figure on about 120 ft. You'll need to contact some local suppliers to see what the current price per foot is.

Now here's the catch. If you make it out of tubing you buy locally, you shouldn't get a log book. The reason is that this cage doesn't meet the current rules. The design is allowed, but only if you purchase it from Custom Cages. If you do that, they send you a certificate and a sticker that goes on the cage certifying that the materials and thicknesses are what they say they are, and that a licensed engineer did the stress calculations or testing to show that the design was satisfactory. Once the calculations are done, the manufacturer fills out a form and sends it to the appropriate FIA affiliated national motorsport governing body (ACCUS in the US, MSA in the UK, etc). When the governing body approves the form, the cage is said to be "Homologated". There are vast differences between the rules for Homologated cages and non-Homologated cages (i.e. "cookbook" cages that are built to the rule book).

--
John

[mattm2001]

So if i have a cage made that meets the spec and its made from the right tubing its still illegal?? Because i just found out that a buddy of mine does NASA cages and he can build mine to spec.. Is that legal or what. You confused me on the log book thing.

[jsundelin]

The problem is that there are a couple of ways to meet the "spec", and you can't combine the allowable methods from one to meet the other.

There are 3 sets of rules that you should be familiar with:
NASA Rallysport Rules:
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-...Appendix-B.pdf

Rally America Rules (even if you don't intend to run their events, you might want to sell your car some day)
http://rally-america.com/rules.php

FIA Rules:
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.../253_08-09.pdf

Quoted from the NASA Rallysport Rulebook, they show 3 approaches to build a compliant cage:

Roll cages are mandatory for all vehicles. Three specifications for
rollcages may be used:
1. An FIA approved roll cage (with either FIA homologation
certificates or ASN homologation certificates). The
homologation of any such rollcage must be current with
the date of logbook issue.
2. Non-FIA homologated rollcages to FIA specifications, as
set forth in Appendix J to the International Sporting
Code, Article 253, and associated figures.
3. Cages built to the specifications listed below. These
specifications are based upon FIA specifications, as set
forth in Appendix J to the International Sporting Code,
Article 253. These specifications are not intended for
cars completing in classes homologated under FIA Rally
rules; cages for cars competing in FIA rally classes must
use a homologated cage correct for the FIA class.

If you go with Approach #1, there are two sub-approaches, which I'll call 1A and 1B. 1A is to use an FIA homologated cage. These only come in World Rally Cars and a very limited number of Ford Rallysport A7 Kit Cars. I'm sure you've seen many pictures of the various WRC cages, though you may or may not have noticed that there are subtle changes from year to year. Since the WRC cars are not really within the realm that we're talking about here, that leaves us with only the A7 Kit Car Cage. These were only built by Ford Rallyesport at Boreham (though I've heard the fabrication was done by Safety Devices). The only way to get them was to buy a pre-caged bodyshell from Ford. The FIA homologation form for the cage looks like this:
http://www.suosalmirallysport.com/FIA_Cage_Cert.jpg

Approach 1B is to use an ASN certified cage. The Custom Cages cage that you posted the picture of is one such cage. Custom Cages actually makes two different cages for the Focus. The certification for the cage that you posted looks like this:
http://www.suosalmirallysport.com/ASN_Cage_Cert.jpg
The sticker would be attached to the cage.

Approach 2 is to build your own according to the FIA rules. This is where the material issue becomes tricky. To build a real FIA cage, you must use Cold Drawn Seamless (CDS) tube that meets the material specifications in the rules. If you read through these rules, you will notice that the cage design in the picture from Custom Cages doesn't meet the rules for new cages, as it does not have all the required gussets.

Approach 3 is to build the cage according to the NASA Rallysport rules. This is where you are allowed to deviate from the FIA rules as far as material goes. NASA allows you to use Drawn Over Mandrel (DOM) tube that is the same size at the CDS tube, while Rally America will require you to increase the wall thickness slightly. If you read through these rules, you will notice that the Custom Cages design doesn't meet these either.

--
John

[BigSandwich]

Hello Matt,

John has some great information in his post. I built my cage based closely on the drawing in that picture. I eliminated the dash bar and the X between the front struts to save cost. I also had to ad a few bars to make it legal for NASA's rules at the time. I did the following:

- An X in the main hoop along with the harness bar.
- I used an X above the drivers head.
- The small corn gussets in the drawing, that look like a triangular plate with 2 holes in them I replaced with bars.

I know the rules have changed some for NASA. Including more gussets and some other stuff.

The best way to make sure the cage is legal is to draw pictures and then mark them up and send them to your cage inspector and make sure the layout will meet the log book rules before you start building. Then as soon as the cage is done even before the car is rally ready get the log book that way you will not have to update the cage halfway through the build. Or like the other safety stuff make the cage one of the last things you spend money on.

Since you are on the east coast if you build to the NASA rules Mark Bowers would likely be your inspector. I e-mailed Mark some copies of the drawing above that I had edited crudely with photoshop to make sure I was legal. And then once we had gone over my options and what I was proposing I took it to the cage builder. He had a couple of questions and I had him call Mark to get clarification so I was not caught in the middle of a game of telephone.

Ok, one more edit. I think I paid $4,000 for my cage but this including reinforcing the strut towers and some stitch welding on the shell.

[mattm2001]

Originally Posted by BigSandwich

Hello Matt,

John has some great information in his post. I built my cage based closely on the drawing in that picture. I eliminated the dash bar and the X between the front struts to save cost. I also had to ad a few bars to make it legal for NASA's rules at the time. I did the following:

- An X in the main hoop along with the harness bar.
- I used an X above the drivers head.
- The small corn gussets in the drawing, that look like a triangular plate with 2 holes in them I replaced with bars.

I know the rules have changed some for NASA. Including more gussets and some other stuff.

The best way to make sure the cage is legal is to draw pictures and then mark them up and send them to your cage inspector and make sure the layout will meet the log book rules before you start building. Then as soon as the cage is done even before the car is rally ready get the log book that way you will not have to update the cage halfway through the build. Or like the other safety stuff make the cage one of the last things you spend money on.

Since you are on the east coast if you build to the NASA rules Mark Bowers would likely be your inspector. I e-mailed Mark some copies of the drawing above that I had edited crudely with photoshop to make sure I was legal. And then once we had gone over my options and what I was proposing I took it to the cage builder. He had a couple of questions and I had him call Mark to get clarification so I was not caught in the middle of a game of telephone.

Ok, one more edit. I think I paid $4,000 for my cage but this including reinforcing the strut towers and some stitch welding on the shell.

Sweet thanks! If you could email me that diagram you said you photoshopped so i could update it myself to current rules. I was also considering building an FIA Approved cage to make it legal for FIA, Rally America, and NASA So i might could sell the car later. My email is mattmathias@bellsouth.net