Spec Car Build Part 3 - Page 2 - Focaljet

**tophe7d** · 04-04-2006, 10:37 PM

Uploaded a small vid from last weekend. The new exhaust is way too quiet!

Oh well, at least it looks like I'll be able to meet the 76db limit at Waterfordhills...

**BUR_ZX3** · 04-05-2006, 11:57 AM

a noise limit at a race track is SUPID.

Just had to put that out there. For chrissake you're RACING!!!! Most states allow 90db on the streets and a RACE track limits to 76?

WTF?

OK Resume build.

**Ted7rns** · 04-05-2006, 01:08 PM

[quote=BUR_ZX3]a noise limit at a race track is SUPID.
/QUOTE]

I totally agree. We're lucky here in SoCal where none of the track we race at have a noise limit.....but when you go up North it changes fast.

Because of the noise limit at some tracks I have left a small muffler on the Spec Car just in case I do go someplace else... But I have thought about removing it for the So Cal tracks.

**98gsxltd** · 04-05-2006, 02:00 PM

hmm just curious what kind of power is this car puting down?

**Ted7rns** · 04-05-2006, 02:30 PM

A fully prepped Spec Focus will should have around 145 to 155 hp at the wheels.

Or around 15.6:1 HP-to-Weight Ratio

**tophe7d** · 04-05-2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 98gsxltd

hmm just curious what kind of power is this car puting down?

Well mine is pretty basic as I'm spending all of my money in saftey right now, but I do plan on dynoing it sometime in May (budget permitting). Also, I can't fully build the engine to spec because I am dual classing the car. IT doesn't allow half the engine mods that spec Focus does, but IT does allow coil-overs and other suspension upgrades the spec Focus doesn't... Until I figure out which class I want to concentrate on, I guess I'll just be slow in both

**tophe7d** · 04-05-2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

a noise limit at a race track is SUPID.

Just had to put that out there. For chrissake you're RACING!!!! Most states allow 90db on the streets and a RACE track limits to 76?

WTF?

OK Resume build.

Agreed, but the track is right in the middle of a subdivision. The back straight wall backs up to the neighbors lawns. The township made them install a sound wall (at our expense of course) last year. It's only a matter of time before the track and Sportsman Club (Where the track is located on) is shut down.

F-ing A-holes. You knew there was a race track and shooting range when you moved there!!!

Proof that people truley are STUPID!!!

**CCapaldi** · 04-05-2006, 07:29 PM

I'm with you Chris!!!! If you don't like racing, don't move next to a race track!!! It's common sence to me and you, but I guess not all of the population are on quite the same wave length as us.......

**tophe7d** · 04-05-2006, 08:03 PM

Good to see you Craig! All we need now is for Ryan to join and we'll be back to trash talking like the good old days at Waterford.

**68 Touring Car** · 04-06-2006, 06:05 AM

Let me tell you I think there is enough Trash talk from you 2 without needing Ryan!

**tophe7d** · 04-17-2006, 10:53 PM

Preliminary Cage Pics. There are still a few more bars to fit, but this is pretty much it. Should be done in a few weeks.

**OutaFocus** · 04-18-2006, 09:40 AM

Out of curiosity, why didn't the builder tuck the main hoop up closer to the B pillars? The front downtube looks close to the wheel too. Not trying to start anything, it just looks from the pictures that he didn't make the best use of available space. It's a safety issue, the further the tubes are away from you the less you're going to hit them.

**Ted7rns** · 04-18-2006, 11:01 AM

Chris,

I want to let you know that there's no way that this cage would pass tech. The front hoops are wrong, you can't have two bends like that. Also, there is no diagonal in the main hoop, and the main hoop is also not wide enough or tall enough. It's better to have them as close to the roof and body as possiable. Sorry for the bad news. But, it's better now then later.

Here's a cage done by Andrew

**Knestis** · 04-18-2006, 11:36 AM

Good to see Ted willing to help folks learn about the technical aspects of this stuff. He's right that it's better now rather than the morning of a first race weekend.

K

**Ted7rns** · 04-18-2006, 12:09 PM

Here's also a design of Leo's Spec Focus Cage, which is a copy of his World Challenge Car.

**CCapaldi** · 04-18-2006, 12:14 PM

Wow!!! Who drew that??? Chris, is that the same cage builder you used for your ITA car?

**Ted7rns** · 04-18-2006, 02:46 PM

Safety is the main issue here... but also note it will make the chassis stiffer too for handling.

**tophe7d** · 04-18-2006, 08:48 PM

Yeah, I know, but it's now being built to MC specs only. In fact, the coil-over kit is being ordered later on this evening and the Multimatic kit will be up for sale as soon as I uninstall it. The SF build has officially been abandoned.

Craig, no. That cage in the Acura was a basic Autopower showroom cage. The builder is a MC member that has a long standing with the tech and racers in that organization. www.maddmattsauto.com

My teammates bars are very similar. No structural problems and passes tech everytime.

Thanks for all the feedback. I will definitely discuss these issues with my builder regardless.

**JimmySolo2** · 04-18-2006, 09:23 PM

Looking at Andrew's car, I had no idea we could remove that much of the dash. Did he just dremel off the lower portion of the dash?

**operator0** · 04-18-2006, 09:31 PM

Chris, the pics of your cage compelled me to register and post here. Don't take the following the wrong way, but I feel you must be persuaded to junk that cage in the strongest of terms. I've built a dozen cages and while that may not make me the worlds foremost expert on cage building, I feel that my experience may make you take my words to heart.

That cage is a tragedy waiting to happen. Those front down tubes will fold up if the roof can't hold in a roll over. The main hoop is much too small. It needs to be pushed out against the sides and roof of the car as much as possible. I would reconsider where to mount the rear down tubes. It's preferable to attach those bars to a unibody frame rail if possible. If not possible, attach them to the floor of the rear area and use an over sized mounting plate. You need a main hoop diagonal. I'm going to assume that you have one, you just didn't have it tacked in when you took the pictures.

In addition, what size tube are you using? If your car weighs less than 2200lbs without driver then you can get away with 1.5X.095. If it weighs 2200-3000lbs then it needs to be 1.75X.095. 1.75X.095 is what I would recommend for any car under 3000lbs. For cars over 3000lbs you will need 1.75X.120.

Look, I know you probably put a lot of time into this thing. I know how hard it is to put one of these things together. And trust me when I say that it takes twice as long if you do it right. It's just that a cage is something that must be right. You could die if it's not. I certainly wouldn't want to see that happen and that's the reason I posted this.

We've all made mistakes. Take this constructive criticism as just that. It's not a slam, I'm not putting you down, I just want to see you do it right. If you have any questions about how to build one of these things, email me.

operator0 at gmail dot com

**Ted7rns** · 04-18-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophe7d

Yeah, I know, but it's now being built to MC specs only. In fact, the coil-over kit is being ordered later on this evening and the Multimatic kit will be up for sale as soon as I uninstall it. The SF build has officially been abandoned.

Craig, no. That cage in the Acura was a basic Autopower showroom cage. The builder is a MC member that has a long standing with the tech and racers in that organization. www.maddmattsauto.com

My teammates bars are very similar. No structural problems and passes tech everytime.

Thanks for all the feedback. I will definitely discuss these issues with my builder regardless.

I'm sorry to see you leaving the Spec Series (at least for now), I hope it doesn't have to do with the cage. Because something had happen between when you post this pics yesterday and today.

But, that in mind, like what people have stated in here, plus the many people I talked to today about who have built many cages; You should REALLY think about changing this design. I personally wouldn't want to see you get hurt or even die. I'm really surprise that MC would even allow it. Not that I don't think what you're saying is true, I'm just surprise.

But, that being said... Please think about going with a different cage. Don't take this in a bad way, because I'm just thinking about your safety.

Talk to Craig or Leo... I'm sure they are people you really trust. See what they have to say.

Safety is always big with me, and I'm sure you've read about the driver who died in a crash her in So Cal. What we're doing is dangerous.

**tophe7d** · 04-19-2006, 12:13 AM

Again, I plan on discussing changes per these recomendations this weekend with the builder.

My decision to drop SF is one that I've been debating since Ted and I first talked at the SEMA show in November. I had a long chat with my teammate last night at dinner (pre-posts) about what I should focus on and what would make me happy in the long run. Bottom line, I still can't get past some of the rule descrepencies between the two classes. If I run IT, I get my doors blown off because of suspension and weight. If I run SF, I get my butt handed to me because of a lack of engine mods (head, cams, ect...) Any way you slice it, I would be building a crappy, noncompetetive car for either class. I have to make a commitment to one class and I choose to stick with IT. I may change my mind later, but for now I think that is the way to go.

The cage debate is here nor there. Safety is the ONLY issue and it will be dealt with! I was skeptical when I first saw the cage too and was really looking forward to hearing some of your comments to perhaps make me feel better about how I instinctively felt (or maybe worse

) I definitely value those of you, who's opinions I trust (and you know who you are) and again, that is why I posted them. I will sincerely deal with these issues as noted!

Maybe I'm just burned out because of trying to appease each rulebook and saying "We'll I'm screwed there!, Well I'm screwed there too... F**k!!!" I don't know. I just need to get some sleep and regroup in the morning.

Thanks for all of your concerns and positive feedback!!!

BTW: The main diagonal brace was still being fitted before the pictures were taken. He had it in place for me when we discussed the side impact bars today.

**CCapaldi** · 04-19-2006, 07:57 AM

Chris, heres some pics of the cage in the WC Cougar. Its a little overkill for what you need but it should give you some good ideas. (Sorry the pics are small, its all I could dig up)

**Ted7rns** · 04-19-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tophe7d

Again, I plan on discussing changes per these recomendations this weekend with the builder.

My decision to drop SF is one that I've been debating since Ted and I first talked at the SEMA show in November. I had a long chat with my teammate last night at dinner (pre-posts) about what I should focus on and what would make me happy in the long run. Bottom line, I still can't get past some of the rule descrepencies between the two classes. If I run IT, I get my doors blown off because of suspension and weight. If I run SF, I get my butt handed to me because of a lack of engine mods (head, cams, ect...) Any way you slice it, I would be building a crappy, noncompetetive car for either class. I have to make a commitment to one class and I choose to stick with IT. I may change my mind later, but for now I think that is the way to go.

The cage debate is here nor there. Safety is the ONLY issue and it will be dealt with! I was skeptical when I first saw the cage too and was really looking forward to hearing some of your comments to perhaps make me feel better about how I instinctively felt (or maybe worse

) I definitely value those of you, who's opinions I trust (and you know who you are) and again, that is why I posted them. I will sincerely deal with these issues as noted!

Maybe I'm just burned out because of trying to appease each rulebook and saying "We'll I'm screwed there!, Well I'm screwed there too... F**k!!!" I don't know. I just need to get some sleep and regroup in the morning.

Thanks for all of your concerns and positive feedback!!!

BTW: The main diagonal brace was still being fitted before the pictures were taken. He h

04-04-2006, 10:37 PM	#26
tophe7d TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 568	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Uploaded a small vid from last weekend. The new exhaust is way too quiet! Oh well, at least it looks like I'll be able to meet the 76db limit at Waterfordhills... __________________ Chris Thornton The Focus has been completely parted out and gone to the salvage yard!!! Updated For Sale Parts List/Pics Here: http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ale/?start=all Located in the Chicagoland area.

04-05-2006, 11:57 AM	#27
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: On the Set of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Posts: 35,039	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 a noise limit at a race track is SUPID. Just had to put that out there. For chrissake you're RACING!!!! Most states allow 90db on the streets and a RACE track limits to 76? WTF? OK Resume build. __________________ FocusSport Presents Focus On The Beach 2008. FocusSport / Exedy / Xios / H&R / 3dCarbon / NASA / Massive Speed System / Microsoft Auto and MORE! Saturday, August 9, Santa Barbara http://www.focusonthebeach.com

04-05-2006, 01:08 PM	#28
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palmdale, California Posts: 3,993	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 [quote=BUR_ZX3]a noise limit at a race track is SUPID. /QUOTE] I totally agree. We're lucky here in SoCal where none of the track we race at have a noise limit.....but when you go up North it changes fast. Because of the noise limit at some tracks I have left a small muffler on the Spec Car just in case I do go someplace else... But I have thought about removing it for the So Cal tracks. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

04-05-2006, 02:00 PM	#29
98gsxltd TEAM Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Winona, MN Posts: 524	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 hmm just curious what kind of power is this car puting down? __________________ 2001 Focus ZX3 totaled 2003 Explorer Sport 2002 Buell Blast

04-05-2006, 02:30 PM	#30
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palmdale, California Posts: 3,993	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 A fully prepped Spec Focus will should have around 145 to 155 hp at the wheels. Or around 15.6:1 HP-to-Weight Ratio __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

04-05-2006, 07:29 PM	#33
CCapaldi Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, MI Posts: 72	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 I'm with you Chris!!!! If you don't like racing, don't move next to a race track!!! It's common sence to me and you, but I guess not all of the population are on quite the same wave length as us.......

04-05-2006, 08:03 PM	#34
tophe7d TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 568	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Good to see you Craig! All we need now is for Ryan to join and we'll be back to trash talking like the good old days at Waterford. __________________ Chris Thornton The Focus has been completely parted out and gone to the salvage yard!!! Updated For Sale Parts List/Pics Here: http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ale/?start=all Located in the Chicagoland area.

04-06-2006, 06:05 AM	#35
68 Touring Car Premier Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Motor City Posts: 1,114	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Let me tell you I think there is enough Trash talk from you 2 without needing Ryan! __________________ Leo NASA Spec Focus Series Director www.capaldiracing.com "Quitters Never Win"

04-17-2006, 10:53 PM	#36
tophe7d TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 568	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Preliminary Cage Pics. There are still a few more bars to fit, but this is pretty much it. Should be done in a few weeks. __________________ Chris Thornton The Focus has been completely parted out and gone to the salvage yard!!! Updated For Sale Parts List/Pics Here: http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ale/?start=all Located in the Chicagoland area. Last edited by tophe7d : 04-17-2006 at 11:53 PM.

04-18-2006, 09:40 AM	#37
OutaFocus Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Acworth, Georgia, USA Posts: 2,282	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Out of curiosity, why didn't the builder tuck the main hoop up closer to the B pillars? The front downtube looks close to the wheel too. Not trying to start anything, it just looks from the pictures that he didn't make the best use of available space. It's a safety issue, the further the tubes are away from you the less you're going to hit them. __________________ Scott 2007 Corvette Cpe, MN6, Z51 Power in the Hands of a Fool

04-18-2006, 11:01 AM	#38
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palmdale, California Posts: 3,993	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Chris, I want to let you know that there's no way that this cage would pass tech. The front hoops are wrong, you can't have two bends like that. Also, there is no diagonal in the main hoop, and the main hoop is also not wide enough or tall enough. It's better to have them as close to the roof and body as possiable. Sorry for the bad news. But, it's better now then later. Here's a cage done by Andrew __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast. Last edited by Ted7rns : 04-18-2006 at 01:40 PM.

04-18-2006, 11:36 AM	#39
Knestis Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 53	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Good to see Ted willing to help folks learn about the technical aspects of this stuff. He's right that it's better now rather than the morning of a first race weekend. K __________________ PhilsTireService.com Team GTI - ITB class winner - 2004 VIR 13 Hours, 2005 Summit Point 12 Hours - with KONI struts, OE and racing VW parts from Bildon Motorsport, and TOYO and HOOSIER tires from PhilsTireService.com

04-18-2006, 12:09 PM	#40
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palmdale, California Posts: 3,993	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Here's also a design of Leo's Spec Focus Cage, which is a copy of his World Challenge Car. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

04-18-2006, 12:14 PM	#41
CCapaldi Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, MI Posts: 72	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Wow!!! Who drew that??? Chris, is that the same cage builder you used for your ITA car?

04-18-2006, 02:46 PM	#42
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Palmdale, California Posts: 3,993	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Safety is the main issue here... but also note it will make the chassis stiffer too for handling. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

04-18-2006, 08:48 PM	#43
tophe7d TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 568	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Yeah, I know, but it's now being built to MC specs only. In fact, the coil-over kit is being ordered later on this evening and the Multimatic kit will be up for sale as soon as I uninstall it. The SF build has officially been abandoned. Craig, no. That cage in the Acura was a basic Autopower showroom cage. The builder is a MC member that has a long standing with the tech and racers in that organization. www.maddmattsauto.com My teammates bars are very similar. No structural problems and passes tech everytime. Thanks for all the feedback. I will definitely discuss these issues with my builder regardless. __________________ Chris Thornton The Focus has been completely parted out and gone to the salvage yard!!! Updated For Sale Parts List/Pics Here: http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ale/?start=all Located in the Chicagoland area.

04-18-2006, 09:23 PM	#44
JimmySolo2 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ross Twp[ N. Pittsburgh] Posts: 2,276	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Looking at Andrew's car, I had no idea we could remove that much of the dash. Did he just dremel off the lower portion of the dash? __________________ There's Army Strong. And then there's Cubicle Strong.... I'm the second one.

04-18-2006, 09:31 PM	#45
operator0 Newbie Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Chris, the pics of your cage compelled me to register and post here. Don't take the following the wrong way, but I feel you must be persuaded to junk that cage in the strongest of terms. I've built a dozen cages and while that may not make me the worlds foremost expert on cage building, I feel that my experience may make you take my words to heart. That cage is a tragedy waiting to happen. Those front down tubes will fold up if the roof can't hold in a roll over. The main hoop is much too small. It needs to be pushed out against the sides and roof of the car as much as possible. I would reconsider where to mount the rear down tubes. It's preferable to attach those bars to a unibody frame rail if possible. If not possible, attach them to the floor of the rear area and use an over sized mounting plate. You need a main hoop diagonal. I'm going to assume that you have one, you just didn't have it tacked in when you took the pictures. In addition, what size tube are you using? If your car weighs less than 2200lbs without driver then you can get away with 1.5X.095. If it weighs 2200-3000lbs then it needs to be 1.75X.095. 1.75X.095 is what I would recommend for any car under 3000lbs. For cars over 3000lbs you will need 1.75X.120. Look, I know you probably put a lot of time into this thing. I know how hard it is to put one of these things together. And trust me when I say that it takes twice as long if you do it right. It's just that a cage is something that must be right. You could die if it's not. I certainly wouldn't want to see that happen and that's the reason I posted this. We've all made mistakes. Take this constructive criticism as just that. It's not a slam, I'm not putting you down, I just want to see you do it right. If you have any questions about how to build one of these things, email me. operator0 at gmail dot com

04-19-2006, 12:13 AM	#47
tophe7d TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lisle, IL USA Posts: 568	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Again, I plan on discussing changes per these recomendations this weekend with the builder. My decision to drop SF is one that I've been debating since Ted and I first talked at the SEMA show in November. I had a long chat with my teammate last night at dinner (pre-posts) about what I should focus on and what would make me happy in the long run. Bottom line, I still can't get past some of the rule descrepencies between the two classes. If I run IT, I get my doors blown off because of suspension and weight. If I run SF, I get my butt handed to me because of a lack of engine mods (head, cams, ect...) Any way you slice it, I would be building a crappy, noncompetetive car for either class. I have to make a commitment to one class and I choose to stick with IT. I may change my mind later, but for now I think that is the way to go. The cage debate is here nor there. Safety is the ONLY issue and it will be dealt with! I was skeptical when I first saw the cage too and was really looking forward to hearing some of your comments to perhaps make me feel better about how I instinctively felt (or maybe worse ) I definitely value those of you, who's opinions I trust (and you know who you are) and again, that is why I posted them. I will sincerely deal with these issues as noted! Maybe I'm just burned out because of trying to appease each rulebook and saying "We'll I'm screwed there!, Well I'm screwed there too... F**k!!!" I don't know. I just need to get some sleep and regroup in the morning. Thanks for all of your concerns and positive feedback!!! BTW: The main diagonal brace was still being fitted before the pictures were taken. He had it in place for me when we discussed the side impact bars today. __________________ Chris Thornton The Focus has been completely parted out and gone to the salvage yard!!! Updated For Sale Parts List/Pics Here: http://s31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ale/?start=all Located in the Chicagoland area.

04-19-2006, 07:57 AM	#48
CCapaldi Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, MI Posts: 72	Re: Spec Car Build Part 3 Chris, heres some pics of the cage in the WC Cougar. Its a little overkill for what you need but it should give you some good ideas. (Sorry the pics are small, its all I could dig up)