Focus Photos

[Ted7rns]

Craig Capaldi at Waterford hills

[02_smurf]

holy body roll. The rear inside tire is off the ground as well.

[focaljet-1]

Originally Posted by 02_smurf

holy body roll. The rear inside tire is off the ground as well.

He's going fast. What's your point?

[02_smurf]

I'd share my point but it wouldn't matter.

[David1954]

Some people are just to picky. It is getting so you can not say anything on here. I did not see anything wrong with 02_smurf pointing it out.

[JimmySolo2]

Originally Posted by David1954

Some people are just to picky. It is getting so you can not say anything on here. I did not see anything wrong with 02_smurf pointing it out.

I think the point is that we all know the Spec Focus suspension is soft and the body does roll, but so far it seems the suspension works so who cares of it rolls that much.

[Knestis]

I don't personally care but perceptions matter when selling a class to the driver/consumer. People have certain expectations about "what a race car is," and "low" and "stiff" tend to be part of that paradigm today.

I'd argue that it doesn't matter one bit, since everyone's in exactly the same boat, with the same pieces. A softer car is going to be more forgiving for the new racer and not be a holy terror if/when it rains - if specific springs and bars are stipulated in the spec.

However, I suppose that it's equally valid that since everyone has to use the same parts, they could just as easily be lower/stiffer. It would make crosssing over to ITA or PT a more competitive proposition, too. I'm just not sure that's exactly consistent with the stated mission statement for SF.

K

[BUR_ZX3]

Originally Posted by Knestis

It would make crosssing over to ITA or PT a more competitive proposition, too. I'm just not sure that's exactly consistent with the stated mission statement for SF.

K

I think (key word being think) that the stated mission of Spec Focus is to develop a race series while minimizing costs.

Unfortunately, the costs are minimal to NASA so they're happy, (no doubt getting sponsor dollar... just speculating) but ultimately, the cost to the racers will be higher because of the rules. (having to keep and maintain multiple suspension setups.

The Ford Racing suspension is less expensive than a Bilstein or KW Variant 3 coilover setup, sure. Even @ $550, its slightly less expensive than a set of H&R Race Springs ($215) and KYB AGX adjustable dampers ($470) or Koni ($618) and that setup would be far more competetive in IT or other series.

I understand to some extent NASA Has to say "well screw the other rules" but if the idea is to encourage participation in a budding new arena.... I don't know that suggesting a not-so competetive setup is the way to go.

Sorry... I'm still REALLY disappointed in the chosen direction for the suspension setup... I think that its 100% wrong.. the ride height is too high (especially in gutted cars that have no weight loading them down, and its far too mushy to be a.) competetive or b.) safe. I'd expect to see body roll like that on a car in an open track lapping day. I don't think that its appropriate for a purpose-built race car.

Spec a spring rate. Spec that its coil-over or not. Spec adjustable or not... But when it comes to specing out specific kits because your sponsor tells you "use what we've got...." I just can't support that.

[02_smurf]

Thanks Todd.

[Knestis]

Not that it matters a ton but I'm not a defender of "the package." I'd do things differently if it were my deal, I think but those who have made the spec decision get to do things the way they think is best.

I don't buy however that there is something inherently unsafe about a soft race car. I fact, I believe quite the opposite is true: a softer, pushier car is "convergently stable" - the situation least likely to get someone in serious trouble. Stiff is faster, low looks racier, but soft is safe.

K

[CCapaldi]

Well I'll have to go out on a limb here in the Spec Focus defense. The first thing I notice is that there is body roll, but the handling doesn't seem to be effected alot. My last car was a FWD cougar that I ran in ITS with ground controls and heavy spring rates. Yes it had the "low race car look", but the spec focus is by FAR easier to drive and alot more forgiving for any mistakes one might make. This being said, I personally feel that the suspension choice is a very good one for a class such as spec focus. The second thing, as for the comment of "I think that its 100% wrong.. the ride height is too high (especially in gutted cars that have no weight loading them down, and its far too mushy to be a.) competetive or b.) safe." I just for kicks looked at a national race at Mid Ohio last season. The spec focus could be classed as a SSC car if you thru the interior back in....so that being said here are some lap times from that class...



the fastest SSC car ran a 1.50:8 in the race.....Leo ran a 1.50:2 in the spec focus a few weeks ago. Granted the differences between the 2 it looks that a person could make a spec focus quite competitive in SSC with very little work. And personally when that photo was taken I ran within 1 second of the winning ITA car my last race with the SF, and I am by no means even close to being fast as a driver yet. I really looks to me that for a little work between race weekends a SF car could be used for multiple sanctioning bodies and classes with or with out the body roll......

[BUR_ZX3]

Correct me if I'm wrong. but Engine mods are prohibited in SSC, no?

So take a Spec Focus, put back on the stock exhaust header and cat and you think you could still pull that time?

[CCapaldi]

As I stated before...there ARE differences between the two, but you could bolt the stock exhuast back in and still have a car that could run at worst mid pack....then the next weekend bolt the spec exhaust back on and run SF. Thus making it a dual purpose car with no added expense....I only used SSC as an example. Run NASA PT then, the car class calculator they have for TT is very close to that of PT. In TT the SF was classed as a TTE car and I'm pretty sure it ends up in PTD as well (Ted correct me if I'm wrong, I thought thats what Greg G told me), anyways the SF car in TTE was almost 3 seconds a lap faster then the next car, so its just my guess that in PT trim the car could quite possibly be just as competitive as in TT. Point of this rant is simple.....SF is easy and fun to drive and COULD be used in different areas if one should choose to.

[GrpB]

Wow, so easy to recognize those that "have done, are doing", and those that "would do, will do, or could have done". I think the car looks like fun and it's always good to see a Focus out on the track.

To the naysayers, it would be nice to see your own race cars as a frame of reference for the rest of us. Clearly you're used to much faster/stiffer stuff than a lowly Spec Focus, maybe you came out of single seaters or high powered production cars. Or maybe you've never actually competed in a venue where there are rules? Otherwise you wouldn't bother posting in this thread because you would post about building/racing/fixing the SSC/IT Focus that you want to bench race with.

Or, a more constructive criticism would be along the lines of, "I was at so and so track and saw one run and I thought that it was..", or "I passed one at this track and it seemed like...", or "I drove that setup and it was too...". So far, all I read is that SF's are inexpensive, pretty quick, should be easy to drive, and they'll all be about the same. Sounds like terrible racing to me...

[BUR_ZX3]

I've stated my constructive criticism before. A stiffer spring rate, lower ride and adjustable dampers.

As for those who have... Why don't we ask the Fila Focus team what they're using?

And I'm sorry who are you again?

I can see the writing on the wall... everything that spec'd is a Ford Catalog part. There were gonna be some other wheels allowed that would be sold by F2, but apparently enough stink was made about using heavy wheels to rethink that decision.

If I wanted to be on 2 wheels going around a corner, I'd ride a motorcycle.

[Ted7rns]

Okay,

First off. Leo’s car would be pretty close to a SCC because it’s a 2.3L Focus and it doesn’t have a lot of Engine mods in it. A Spec Focus could end up anywhere between PTE and PTD depending on the model and the mods. The Spec Focus would be a very good PTE car, but could struggle in PTD.

The biggest issue here is more the ride height then overall performance. I feel it’s
Just as important that is looks good as well as drive well. It has been proven many times that the performance with the Dynamic is good and it’s easy to race. Anyone that has driven the car will tell you that.

Now, that being said, I do feel it’s important that the car is lowered more then it’s current height. This is a concern of NASA and its marketability of the series in general. We will be looking into other options for 2006 season. We’re looking into a couple different options right now. I don’t know which way we are going, but it will follow along with the current sponsors we have. I would think we would have a new ruling with in the next couple of weeks.

I don’t like to make changes on the fly, but this is something we can address before a lot of people start making cars, but also help out people who have made cars already. But it is important that we get it right, and we have the cost of the suspension less then a Spec Miata Suspension kit.

[02_smurf]

how much does the SM supsension kit run?

[BUR_ZX3]

Ted-

Thanks. You and I have butted on this before, and I know I can't change your mind, but I appreciate that its being looked at further. As long as an honest evaluation of the situation is approached, I can respect that.

Originally Posted by Ted7rns

and we have the cost of the suspension less then a Spec Miata Suspension kit.

That being said, from what I understand the Spec Miata setup runs close to $1500. Honestly, you can get a helluva lot better Focus Suspension setups for $1500 than whats being offered per the rules.

[Ted7rns]

They cost between $1,300 and $1,500.

So, if we could be around $800 to $1,100 we would be happy with that.

[Ted7rns]

Motorsports is a sponsor driven sport. It’s very important that we evaluate with our current sponsors in mind, and we might not exclude other kits, but we do have an order of priority we must follow to keep our current sponsors happy. If our current sponsors do not have a setup that would fit into the goal of the Spec Focus Series, we will look at an outside company. But first and foremost we must keep our current sponsors happy and I’m sure other projective sponsors would want the same treatment.

One more thing, NASA does not receive any money from our current sponsors. All the money from our current sponsors goes towards a Contingency prizes for our drivers. These sponsorship are for our fellow drivers and teams. These Sponsors are for you, the fellow Spec Focus Racer.

[GrpB]

Just separating the wheat from the chaff, or more apropriately, those that have legitimate concerns and those that have other motivations.

1) Real racers argue over specific points in the rulebook, bench racers and those that have no interest in actually racing argue rhetorically about personal hang-ups. Last catalog I saw, Ford Racing did not sell the Eibach springs or dampers that are legal for Spec Focus, in addition to the Multimatic kit and the stock SVT suspension. Perhaps it would be prudent to ask if anyone is going to try or has tried the Eibach setup before bashing all over the Multimatic kit?

Maybe you should go read the rules first, and perhaps the rules of the other NASA spec classes at the same time. And boo hoo on stock wheels, how dare a sanctioning body make people use the wheels that came with their car.

2) Lower, stiffer, adjustable is constructive criticism? Because the car is too slow? What happened to the argument that a “softly sprung” Spec Focus would be run over by Spec Miata’s? Well, Mid-Ohio last month took care of that question. So perhaps the car just doesn’t look “cool” and low enough? Well, since it is for racing and not a car show, perhaps it wouldn’t be bad to have a quick, inexpensive, hard to cheat, easy to set up car, where it’s hard to be outspent. And it doesn’t matter who I am, since I’m not busy bashing on something that I have no actual interest in.

3) If you were a “have done” you would mention your own experience. Not someone else’s that you have no personal involvement with. I don’t need to ask their spring rates because I knew the setup when Memo was driving it and I know what they changed after Chip took over. If you think that a Spec anything setup should mimic a World Challenge Touring Car then you must have one heck of car since the current Spec Focus is obviously so far beneath you. However, though you may think your “adjustable” suspension gets you pretty close to that World Challenge car you want to mimic, they are about as similar as a washboard and a washing machine. If you think the World Challenge TC setup is a good model, then perhaps the World Challenge is the series for you. I’ll be sure to cheer when I see you and your Focus on Speed …

Racing is about winning, or at least having a realistic chance of it. NASA and the SCCA have other classes that allow more modifications, but you obviously don’t compete or intend to compete in any of those either. If you don't intend to build a race Focus, in any sanctioning body, in any class, why are you trying to change the rules for Spec Focus?

[f2focus]

Now that is good race preaching!!!!

I could not have said it any better.....I was trying by the way.

[BUR_ZX3]

Originally Posted by GrpB

Racing is about winning, or at least having a realistic chance of it. NASA and the SCCA have other classes that allow more modifications, but you obviously don’t compete or intend to compete in any of those either. If you don't intend to build a race Focus, in any sanctioning body, in any class, why are you trying to change the rules for Spec Focus?

Again, care to share with the group whom you are?



In fact, I was VERY enthusiastic about seeing a Spec Focus series. And when the details were released, I got the rules and picked through them in an effort to try and assemble a team. Once we went over it, as found by others, its impossible to setup the car to cross-compete. So it was over for us before it began. (with reference to Spec Focus)


As for wheels... I'm all for allowing the stock wheels that came with the car. But thats not what the rule is. Perhaps YOU should re-read the rules.

[f2focus]

I don't see how it matters what group he belongs too......

I never understand how people always pick out the petty stuff and make a big deal about it. How many companies jumped in and said that they would help NASA start this? Only one that