Spec Focus piston? - Focaljet

**recar** · 07-03-2007, 07:51 AM

Looking for a Spec Focus legal piston for a 2.0l Zetec.

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-03-2007, 09:59 AM

stock compression and measurements. Otherwise open, if my interpretation is accurate.

Quote:

11.3 Bored Engines
Engines may be bored to a maximum of .020 inch over standard bore size. Factory replacement pistons or the exact equivalent shall be used. Exact equivalent shall be defined as the same dome/dish/valve relief configuration, weight, ring thickness and location, and pin location as the OEM replacement piston. Wrist pins must also conform to OEM specifications. In the event that a .020 factory replacement piston/wrist pin is not available, the .020 pistons/wrist pins shall not weigh any less than then a standard size OEM piston.

**BigSandwich** · 07-03-2007, 03:08 PM

With those restrictions is there really any benefit to running a non-oem piston without boring the block?

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-03-2007, 03:42 PM

Other than durability? No. Not that I can see.

I'm thinking about boring out the block .020, but I can't seem to find pistons in stock compression. Anyone know a source?

**Ted7rns** · 07-03-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSandwich

With those restrictions is there really any benefit to running a non-oem piston without boring the block?

Not really.

Even if you could make mods to the block and change the compression you would still have to meet the HP+TQ/2 to Weight Ratio and they within the Max RPM limit.

This is the beauty of having the HP+TQ/2 to Weight Ratio and Max RPM limits. It's not worth spending a lot of money for motors if you have to stay within the Ratio. Unlike Spec Miata where the top teams spend $15-$20K on their motors for 3 or 4 extra WHP.

I guess it could help you with the power bandwidth.

**recar** · 07-03-2007, 09:14 PM

It looks like the piston might have to be custom made. Ford only offers stock size pistons with rods, no other sizes. Aftermarket rods give increased durability. The search continues.

**BigSandwich** · 07-05-2007, 01:00 PM

Aftermarket rods are not listed in the allowed modificaitons so I would assume that they are illegal.

Ted, the rules mention RPM limits but that they TBA. Am I missing a link somewhere? I like the HP+TQ to min weight rule.

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigSandwich

Aftermarket rods are not listed in the allowed modificaitons so I would assume that they are illegal.

Ted, the rules mention RPM limits but that they TBA. Am I missing a link somewhere? I like the HP+TQ to min weight rule.

We're still working on the RPM limits. It will be around 7200 to 7500 for 2.0 cars and 6800 to 7000 for 2.3L Duratec cars.

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-05-2007, 01:45 PM

So rods are illegal?

Damn.... I gotta rethink this... cuz to put stock rods on custom pistons is kinda gonna be a waste.

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

So rods are illegal?

I didn't say that.

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 02:08 PM

Factory replacement pistons or the exact equivalent shall be used. Exact equivalent shall be defined as the same dome/dish/valve relief configuration, weight, ring thickness and location, and pin location as the OEM replacement piston.

The main thing with the Rods it must have the same weight and size as OEM Rods; increased durability is fine.

In general if you make a change for Durability we'll most likely allow it. If it's for HP, Torque and Power Band change we'll have to serious think about it. If it's both????? Again we'll have to think about it.

Again the Max HP+TQ to weight ratio helps in allowing these parts to be change.

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-05-2007, 02:42 PM

Ted -

A hypothetical if you will. If we were to use a low compression piston and deck the head, under the new Weight/(HP+TQ/2) scheme, we would be OK?

When it comes to dealing with pistons, to keep it cheap, that seems to be the way to go (at least for the zetec).

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

Ted -

A hypothetical if you will. If we were to use a low compression piston and deck the head, under the new Weight/(HP+TQ/2) scheme, we would be OK?

When it comes to dealing with pistons, to keep it cheap, that seems to be the way to go (at least for the zetec).

Yes you can do that. It might be hard to get up to a 16.5:1 ratio in a Zetec at 2,575lbs with lower compression.

If the minimal weight is taken out of the rules and we go strickly by 16.5:1 it would work much better for that.

The question is, has there been a problem with Zetec Rods and Pistons??

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-05-2007, 04:05 PM

No, but if we're gonna be rebuilding engines (as opposed to using new ones) boring and honing the cylinders is gonna hafta happen, and once that happens, stock pistons are out of the equation.

In doing my research... I can find pistons in 9.0:1 CR but not a 9.6:1 (stock CR) So if we slap in the 9.0:1 and deck the head, we can probably get back to 9.6 (or very VERY close).

I suppose we could reuse stock rods...

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 04:48 PM

It might be better to just buy another motor.

**brads03zx3** · 07-05-2007, 04:52 PM

^^^What I was going to suggest. The point of this series is to keep costs to a minimum. You can buy 5 used short block zetecs for the cost of one rebuild. And with the rules written the way they are, there really is no room for improvement in the powerplant category.

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-05-2007, 05:16 PM

Meh. The motor is free. I'll see if a fresh hone can't do the trick.

But honestly, I know that a rebuild was considered, being that the rules allow for the .020 overbore, but whats the point of that if theres nothing to support it?

And if you're seriously suggesting that I can find 5 shortblocks for the cost of a rebuild, I'd like to get to know your source. Because I've been quoted prices as high as $1500 for a used with 40K longblock.

Does Leo and his gang just run stock engines out of old junkers?

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 05:30 PM

Can't you buy Zetec motors for $300 to $400.... I had a $400 motor in my car that Bob Evans is running now, and he gets 165whp out of it now.

I think Leo's motors have over 45k miles on them now.

**brads03zx3** · 07-05-2007, 05:39 PM

The very first place I checked was FocusSalvage - $550

What does a brand new long block from Tousley run?

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-05-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

The very first place I checked was FocusSalvage - $550

What does a brand new long block from Tousley run?

Not available. Gotta buy a full crate longblock.

I tried that route.

**brads03zx3** · 07-05-2007, 06:06 PM

Which one is not available? I asked how much does the long block cost? I don't feel like fishing around 50 pages of Steve's quotes. I figured you already new.

**BUR_ZX3** · 07-05-2007, 06:13 PM

OOPS... I thought you asked about shortblock.

IIRC he quoted me like $2500 + shipping.

**recar** · 07-05-2007, 08:08 PM

Ford only offers stock bore pistons with rods or rods alone. You cannot use stock rods with aftermarket pistons, OE's are pressed together and non floating. All aftermarket pistons are of floating design. The connecting rods are the weakest link besides the oil-pump. The Ford "stage 3 cams" which are the only ones available make power at high RPM's, over 7,000. Basically if your block has any wear you are forced to go to aftermaket pistons and rods, there is no other alternative. I personally cannot afford to be buying motors to break.

**Ted7rns** · 07-05-2007, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by recar

Ford only offers stock bore pistons with rods or rods alone. You cannot use stock rods with aftermarket pistons, OE's are pressed together and non floating. All aftermarket pistons are of floating design. The connecting rods are the weakest link besides the oil-pump. The Ford "stage 3 cams" which are the only ones available make power at high RPM's, over 7,000. Basically if your block has any wear you are forced to go to aftermaket pistons and rods, there is no other alternative. I personally cannot afford to be buying motors to break.

What’s your suggestion?

**recar** · 07-05-2007, 10:28 PM

Replacement non OE rods, bored engines up to .020, stock compression ratio.

07-03-2007, 07:51 AM	#1
recar Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,476	Spec Focus piston? Looking for a Spec Focus legal piston for a 2.0l Zetec.

07-03-2007, 03:08 PM	#3
BigSandwich Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,142	Re: Spec Focus piston? With those restrictions is there really any benefit to running a non-oem piston without boring the block? __________________ 2001 ZX3 Spec Rally Car - Build Thread 1990 Audi 90 1985 Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE

07-03-2007, 03:42 PM	#4
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Little Saint Clara, Isle of Queen Califia Posts: 35,705	Re: Spec Focus piston? Other than durability? No. Not that I can see. I'm thinking about boring out the block .020, but I can't seem to find pistons in stock compression. Anyone know a source? __________________ Video from the final round of the Focus Challenge... Click Here

07-03-2007, 09:14 PM	#6
recar Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,476	Re: Spec Focus piston? It looks like the piston might have to be custom made. Ford only offers stock size pistons with rods, no other sizes. Aftermarket rods give increased durability. The search continues.

07-05-2007, 01:00 PM	#7
BigSandwich Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 1,142	Re: Spec Focus piston? Aftermarket rods are not listed in the allowed modificaitons so I would assume that they are illegal. Ted, the rules mention RPM limits but that they TBA. Am I missing a link somewhere? I like the HP+TQ to min weight rule. __________________ 2001 ZX3 Spec Rally Car - Build Thread 1990 Audi 90 1985 Mazda RX-7 GSL-SE

07-05-2007, 01:45 PM	#9
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Little Saint Clara, Isle of Queen Califia Posts: 35,705	Re: Spec Focus piston? So rods are illegal? Damn.... I gotta rethink this... cuz to put stock rods on custom pistons is kinda gonna be a waste. __________________ Video from the final round of the Focus Challenge... Click Here

07-05-2007, 02:08 PM	#11
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Thousand Oaks, California Posts: 4,202	Re: Spec Focus piston? Factory replacement pistons or the exact equivalent shall be used. Exact equivalent shall be defined as the same dome/dish/valve relief configuration, weight, ring thickness and location, and pin location as the OEM replacement piston. The main thing with the Rods it must have the same weight and size as OEM Rods; increased durability is fine. In general if you make a change for Durability we'll most likely allow it. If it's for HP, Torque and Power Band change we'll have to serious think about it. If it's both????? Again we'll have to think about it. Again the Max HP+TQ to weight ratio helps in allowing these parts to be change. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

07-05-2007, 02:42 PM	#12
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Little Saint Clara, Isle of Queen Califia Posts: 35,705	Re: Spec Focus piston? Ted - A hypothetical if you will. If we were to use a low compression piston and deck the head, under the new Weight/(HP+TQ/2) scheme, we would be OK? When it comes to dealing with pistons, to keep it cheap, that seems to be the way to go (at least for the zetec). __________________ Video from the final round of the Focus Challenge... Click Here

07-05-2007, 04:05 PM	#14
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Little Saint Clara, Isle of Queen Califia Posts: 35,705	Re: Spec Focus piston? No, but if we're gonna be rebuilding engines (as opposed to using new ones) boring and honing the cylinders is gonna hafta happen, and once that happens, stock pistons are out of the equation. In doing my research... I can find pistons in 9.0:1 CR but not a 9.6:1 (stock CR) So if we slap in the 9.0:1 and deck the head, we can probably get back to 9.6 (or very VERY close). I suppose we could reuse stock rods... __________________ Video from the final round of the Focus Challenge... Click Here

07-05-2007, 04:48 PM	#15
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Thousand Oaks, California Posts: 4,202	Re: Spec Focus piston? It might be better to just buy another motor. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

07-05-2007, 04:52 PM	#16
brads03zx3 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Posts: 9,069	Re: Spec Focus piston? ^^^What I was going to suggest. The point of this series is to keep costs to a minimum. You can buy 5 used short block zetecs for the cost of one rebuild. And with the rules written the way they are, there really is no room for improvement in the powerplant category. __________________ Mountain Tested----'03 zetec DuraMonster---'03 duratec ZX3 vs MNTN - 9/0 & ZX3 vs TRACK - 4/1 *JCM Racing #88* Bouncing Back---Bigger, Faster, Stronger Vacuum Vulture Racing - We put the ARG in 'CHARGED

07-05-2007, 05:16 PM	#17
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Little Saint Clara, Isle of Queen Califia Posts: 35,705	Re: Spec Focus piston? Meh. The motor is free. I'll see if a fresh hone can't do the trick. But honestly, I know that a rebuild was considered, being that the rules allow for the .020 overbore, but whats the point of that if theres nothing to support it? And if you're seriously suggesting that I can find 5 shortblocks for the cost of a rebuild, I'd like to get to know your source. Because I've been quoted prices as high as $1500 for a used with 40K longblock. Does Leo and his gang just run stock engines out of old junkers? __________________ Video from the final round of the Focus Challenge... Click Here

07-05-2007, 05:30 PM	#18
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Thousand Oaks, California Posts: 4,202	Re: Spec Focus piston? Can't you buy Zetec motors for $300 to $400.... I had a $400 motor in my car that Bob Evans is running now, and he gets 165whp out of it now. I think Leo's motors have over 45k miles on them now. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast.

07-05-2007, 05:39 PM	#19
brads03zx3 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Posts: 9,069	Re: Spec Focus piston? The very first place I checked was FocusSalvage - $550 What does a brand new long block from Tousley run? __________________ Mountain Tested----'03 zetec DuraMonster---'03 duratec ZX3 vs MNTN - 9/0 & ZX3 vs TRACK - 4/1 *JCM Racing #88* Bouncing Back---Bigger, Faster, Stronger Vacuum Vulture Racing - We put the ARG in 'CHARGED

07-05-2007, 06:06 PM	#21
brads03zx3 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Posts: 9,069	Re: Spec Focus piston? Which one is not available? I asked how much does the long block cost? I don't feel like fishing around 50 pages of Steve's quotes. I figured you already new. __________________ Mountain Tested----'03 zetec DuraMonster---'03 duratec ZX3 vs MNTN - 9/0 & ZX3 vs TRACK - 4/1 *JCM Racing #88* Bouncing Back---Bigger, Faster, Stronger Vacuum Vulture Racing - We put the ARG in 'CHARGED

07-05-2007, 06:13 PM	#22
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Little Saint Clara, Isle of Queen Califia Posts: 35,705	Re: Spec Focus piston? OOPS... I thought you asked about shortblock. IIRC he quoted me like $2500 + shipping. __________________ Video from the final round of the Focus Challenge... Click Here

07-05-2007, 08:08 PM	#23
recar Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,476	Re: Spec Focus piston? Ford only offers stock bore pistons with rods or rods alone. You cannot use stock rods with aftermarket pistons, OE's are pressed together and non floating. All aftermarket pistons are of floating design. The connecting rods are the weakest link besides the oil-pump. The Ford "stage 3 cams" which are the only ones available make power at high RPM's, over 7,000. Basically if your block has any wear you are forced to go to aftermaket pistons and rods, there is no other alternative. I personally cannot afford to be buying motors to break.

07-05-2007, 10:28 PM	#25
recar Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New York Posts: 1,476	Re: Spec Focus piston? Replacement non OE rods, bored engines up to .020, stock compression ratio.