Noob question: Spec Miata or Focus faster

[Laze1]

I am a Noob starting my 2009 race plans, and seeking to buy a relitively low cost race car. I have driven a Spec Miata during HPDE events, but not a Spec focus.

My Question is: How do lap time compare between the Spec Focus vrs the Spec Miata?

And does anybody have any Spec Focus lap times for any SE tracks? Road Atlanta, Barber, CMP, or Roebling?

Note: I am looking to buy something at the end of the season when folks often bail outta cars for "whatever" reason.


Thnx!

Laze1

[ckisner]

i guess it depends on how good of a driver you are. i don't have any times for those tracks you mentioned but me, craig and matt run midpack with the miatas at mid-ohio. craig is only a few seconds off the top miatas. spec miata might be a tough class to start out in. if you did buy a miata i would recommend running PT until you had a lot of seat time. the miata group is a very aggressive group. they don't call them spec piñatas for nothing.

[lapp4sm]

My son races a Spec Focus in So. Cal. He routinely races against 8-10 spec Miata's. During a typical race, for the first half of the race, the Miata's keep pace, or even go a little faster than the Focus. By the half way point, he begins passing the Miata's. He will typically finish ahead of 9 out of the 10 Miata's.

A couple of things to keep in mind.
1) The Miata is a rear wheel drive, the Focus is front.
2) Miata racing is shrinking, Focus racing is growing.
3) Spec Focus is getting more and more support from Ford and others.
4) Mazda's support is shrinking.
5) Focus's are less expensive and more plentiful (used cars and parts).
6) If you like driving bumper cars, race a Miata. If you like racing, drive a Focus.
(the nick-name for spec Miata is spec Piñata, for a good reason)

We went thru the same thing 2 years ago, that you are going turu now. We chose Spec Focus and no regrets.

You may want to talk to Leo Capaldi (68-touring-car) or Ted Sevenrs (ted7rs). They are the Spec Focus Directors.

[f2focus]

As far as cost and fun I would say Spec Focus...it is a lot bigger over in the east coast....hit us up as we might have one available for sale later this year. We have planed to run one and we are building one but the driver pulled out as he had some family issues but we might just finish it anyways and sell it....good luck with your decision...take care.

[Laze1]

I agree with the spec piñatas name....bump drafting the entire lap is not what I am looking for at this point..

The Spec Miata is a little small for me @ 6 ' 1" with a long torso....but some cars with "tall" cages fit ok. I have looked at the Spec E30 class..and it looks pretty good , and I fit in those with plenty of extra room, but parts cost too much for me. Some of the Mustangs look interesting, but not sure I want to run a high HP car that doesn't handle that well. So running a low HP car that handles well appears to te the way to go for me. But those Mustand AI/AIX cars are CHEAP!

I saw a Spec Focus running NASA-HPDE in a couple of recents events in the South East ( I live in Atlanta, GA) ..and that started me thinking about the Focus as a viable "poor-man's" track/race car. Today, I am running TT and HPDE's in a lightly moded daily-driver 350Z.

I plan to get a NASA comp license this winter/early spring and run some enduro races initially, maybe with a "rental" if I have not found the perfect car yet. This should get me into the summer/fall of 2009, then I will run some sprint races. I will be reaching out to the Spec Focus builders on this Forum for a car pretty soon, maybe for a arrive-and-drive...

So I am looking to purchase a completed race car, that has Maximun safety gear, and is relitively competive in whatever class it runs in. I will be watching the 4-Sale areas closely.

Believe it or not I raced a Pinto in IMSA - RS class back in the 1980s....so racing a Focus today will be real trip. (yes, I am an old geazer @ 54) I'm in the dark blue 2 piece driving suit...@ 1982 Daytona IMSA 6 hour Enduro I think we finished 20th out of 65 cars...

[Laze1]

More questions:

Look like a legal Spec Focus will also run in PTE class..right? and TTE for time trial?
What Enduro class will it run in?
Do you know of any other Spec Foci running in the SE?

BTW: I am doing the points research now, but you guy likely already know the answers...and I am LazE!

Thnx!

[Ted7rns]

Most of the Spec Focus would run in PTE (TTE), but it can also fall into PTD (TTD) as well... Depending on the model.

The Spec Focus runs in E2 for Enduros.

[Laze1]

thnx!

[BadIdea]

I classed my almost spec focus in TTE with not too many points to spare. But it's not competitive in TTE or PTE built to spec.

[Laze1]

What car wins that class? (TTE) Miata??

[BadIdea]

I believe some sort of Civic is really fast.

[brads03zx3]

The PTE Civic SI that won nationals put down over 220 whp with a muffler replacement (rated at ~200 crank hp stock). The Scion tC that I work on finished in second place last year in PTE and TTE. A SF or SM will not compete with national level PTE cars. Some SF cars are PTD cars.

[Laze1]

Since there are no SF runnning down here in the SE,,,I though about trying to run in other classes...but that sounds like a losing deal....

I don't plan to run up front for awhile, but I don't want to be "that SLOW SOB" that is just a moving roadblock.....

[brads03zx3]

Don't get discouraged. I honestly believe a focus built to the PT rules can be competitive. I am in the process of doing the same. Regional racing is typically very different than NASA nationals, though I spend my time in NASA socal, arguably the fastest region. At one time, we have Super Touring dodge vipers and cosworth super sevens on track at the same time as spec miatas, so don't worry too much about that.

What I am trying to say is, if you want to be competitive in PT, don't build the car to SF rules. You can make the cars faster by carefully choosing engine mods, suspension, weight can be improved, brakes can be improved, tire/wheel combo etc over the SF rules.

You've already driven a miata. I suggest spending some time in a focus before you make up your mind. Good luck with your decision and have fun on track.

[ALIENNATION95GT]

Boht sound great.

BUt f racing a MIata. join the MAzdaspeed program and replacmeent parts are cheap (ie we can buy a MSp lsd for other cars for around 250)
plus Mazdas have a bump system if you want ot really get inot racing. Mazda will bring drivers p the ranks. I think they offered the winner of SCCA if in a mazda they would bump them to the MX-5 cup. Full car and parts and support (car built ready to race).
ONe of the tri-point drivers and Patrick Dumphy (?sp) ran MX-5 and got bumped up. the tri-point driver of course running touring car in a mazda6, and PAtrick Dumphy is racing the SOBE RX-8

[Laze1]

Vender and other contigency support is important in my decission making process. That is why the Spec Focus looks attractive at this point. If Ford is gonna support this series in 2009,,,that is a BIG DEAL!

Back in the day (1982) I won about $500 from Ford in a single IMSA RS race (not Championship) in my Pinto for being in the top 3 Ford finishers (not overall...I was 20th I think) and that was SWEET for a poor guy working out of his basement...

Anyways...thnx for all the input!

[Matt Marks]

Laze - I run in Mid-Atlantic. Didn't make the CMP trip in April or May, as the car was having some work done. But, the relative speed of the Miata vs. the Focus is really dependent on the track. The miata will do much better on the tighter tracks as they are lighter and have the rear wheel drive advantage. On longer tracks with fast sweepers longer straights, the Focus will have an advantage it's got 50% more power. For example, I haven't been on the CMP new configuration with a Focus , but on the old configuration, the SM would be faster through the back half of the coarse where all the really tight corners are, but the SF would really move through T7-T11. I would think that RA would be a really nice track for the Focus with the elevation changes and the esses.

It's not uncommon for the mid-pack miata's to make passes going into corners, but we have to re-pass them on the straights and can really outbrake them at will - even without using the ABS.

[Laze1]

"and can really outbrake them at will - even without using the ABS."

Tell me more: why is this?

The Miata stops pretty well due to the super light weight....are the Focus brakes are that much better?

[kimbo305]

Earlier someone said that SM is winding down and SF is picking up. But as of right now, aren't there way more SM races and cars out there than SF? Like at least 10:1?

[Matt Marks]

Bigger briakes, more rubber. Maybe more confidence knowing that if you goof it up, you have the ABS as a backup.

Then again...these are the mid pack guys. Front of the pack may be a different experience.

[SVTBuckeye]

My $.02 worth.

Miata
Pro:
Large fields, greater possibility that there will be someone going your speed to race with.
??probably more cars available to buy verse build.
A sports car??
Con:
Older cars usually with more maintenance required.
The cars that run up front are really much faster than mid field. See GrassRoots Motorsports article on SM's
Yes, the are all dented up, close racing=bent metal.
Too small inside for real men. lol 6" 4" doesn't fit. (SF are for big guys, or other sized too)

Spec Focus
Pro's
Cars are made in this century.
Ford does support. This means several things that are not totally visible but benefit the competitors. (I got a nice check for 2nd at Nationals.)
Cars are Front wheel dirve like most of us drive now days.
Ford has worked hard to equalize the performance and will continue to review.
Pretty close racing so far.
Con:
Not many cars now. Growing. Makes for a small fraternaty. Mostly in Ohio, Michigan, Virginia, ? Another car is appreciated by the competitors and they are ready to help....(till you beat them)
More car around you when bad things happen.

So, what fits your needs, hope, desires, wishes, wants, dreams, budget, body size, ??

[kimbo305]

Originally Posted by SVTBuckeye

See GrassRoots Motorsports article on SM's

what issue?

[brads03zx3]

Originally Posted by kimbo305

Earlier someone said that SM is winding down and SF is picking up. But as of right now, aren't there way more SM races and cars out there than SF? Like at least 10:1?

While SF is picking up, SM is definitely not going anywhere. I have spoken to Mazda drivers and while mazda is moving away from SCCA due to some disagreements, they are dangling the $ carrot in front of those in NASA. NASA SoCal gave SM their own race group at several events this year due to large fields.

[Laze1]

My problem is that SF isn't a recognized class in NASA-SE...

no cars, no series....


Somebody needs to give me a car and I will get it started.....(nice of me huh?) FORD should luv me since I raced a Pinto...

An if somebody gives me a car, I volunteer to be the SF Director for the NASA-SE.....

[brads03zx3]

While support is growing, please don't expect a free ride. You probably know more than most that auto racing is the second most expensive hobby in the world, only behind motor boat racing. If you build a SF car, NASA SE will recognize the class. NASA SoCal only has a single competitor. He'll be working over the midwest guys at nationals next month