balance between Focus models - Focaljet

**kimbo305** · 08-14-2008, 12:50 PM

I can't say I'm that familiar with Spec Focus, but it seems to me that Zetecs and 2.0 Duratecs aren't very popular? At least, they don't seem to place well in the standings. Is this because the more serious racers pick the models that are more powerful stock? Or is it possible the rules are naturally biased against the less powerful models? From my reading of it, any non-2.3-Duratec model faces the same minimum weight?

The reason I ask is, it seems that SF would be a few thousand dollars cheaper for the prospective racer by getting a cheapo Zetec as opposed to a nice ST or SVT. But it'd be a shame if he couldn't break into the top ranks without a better motor.

**lapp4sm** · 08-14-2008, 01:10 PM

The 2.3l duratec cars have a minimum weight of 2675lbs. The others are 2600lbs.

While the 2.3l and the SVT have more power stock, you basically can't do anything to the motors. The Zetec and the 2.0l Duratec have less power in stock form, but you can modify the motor (head, TB etc).

If you buy a 2.3l or SVT car, it will cost more for the car, but you will spend less money on the motor. If you buy a Zetec or 2.0l duratec car, it will cost you less for the car, but you will spend more money on the motor.

The rules are set up to balance all of the cars (best that they can be).

And this year, a Zetec car will win the championship

.

**CCapaldi** · 08-14-2008, 01:12 PM

The min weight is 75 lbs higher on a 2.3 (2675) vs 2600 on all other models. We have had our cars in several different combos the last couple years and have been able to get all the different combos down to the same lap times. Our SVT I believe actually won more races in our division last season than our 2.3 duratecs!

Simply put, if you decide on a Zetec, the car itself will be cheaper but once you add all the goodies you should end up right around the same price as a SVT or 2.3 build and just as fast. I actually have run across quite a few 2.3 cars just as cheap as some Zetec's.

All in all it just depends what direction the racers what to head in, every combo has its benefits and down sides but our series directors and Ford have put alot of time and testing into getting everyone up to the same speed.

Lapp.....you sure are pushing this championship thing, I might just pull over for you guys if you want it that bad! I thought you guys had a 2.3 in the new car for some reason. Reguardless, looking forward to meeting you fellas!

**Ted7rns** · 08-14-2008, 02:32 PM

What both Mark and Chris said is true (well…except for the part that Chris is going to pull over and let Ryan pass him at Nationals, its hard to do that when your behind anyways

). Also keep in mind we did make changes to the 2.3L in 2008 by adding 25lbs more ballast, changing the TB back to OEM and they can no longer use the 4.06 final gear. So, the first two years we did find that the 2.3L motor did have an advantage which we took care of.

Just to let you know that for 2008 all power plants do have the same HP+Torque divided by Weight ratio. So, some motors will have higher HP, where others might have higher torque. The Highest HP car will be the 2.0L Duratec, but will have the least amount of Torque. The 2.3L will have the Highest Torque, but have the least amount of HP…. The Zetec and SVT kind of fall in between. What happens is each power plant have their own pluses and minuses. So, a lot depends on the track.

Plus now some engine tuners might play around with different parts to help their own power plant. Some might not fully prep a 2.0L Duratec so he can have more torque, but might have less wHP. So a lot might depend on the track or the tracks in their own region.

**lapp4sm** · 08-14-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCapaldi

Lapp.....you sure are pushing this championship thing, I might just pull over for you guys if you want it that bad! I thought you guys had a 2.3 in the new car for some reason. Reguardless, looking forward to meeting you fellas!

Regarding the 2.3l, with the amount of time we had before nationals, I didn't want to risk not having the car ready. I'm sure that there will be issues installing a duratec in a Zetec car. We do have the 2.3l motor, trans, all of the wiring, and we are getting another car to put that in. It will be ready for next season.

If we don't win the championship, I will just blame Ryan. I've told him that if he doesn't win, he has to pay for the trip out there. It's easy for me to talk, I don't have to drive. You will notice that Ryan's not talking. He'll let his talking take place on the track (he didn't say that either).

We're looking forward to meeting all of you guys out there. Should be alot of fun.

**Ted7rns** · 08-14-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapp4sm

You will notice that Ryan's not talking. He'll let his talking take place on the track (he didn't say that either).

That's for sure. He doesn't even talk on the track. I tired to talk to him on the radio and he hardly says anything

**kimbo305** · 08-21-2008, 02:13 AM

I finally recalled one of my original points -- so if a guy wants to have a really dirt cheap Spec Focus, would there be some way to maintain parity by just mandating an alternate min weight for stock Zetec engines? I imagine on a lot of the tracks, light weight is not really going to save these proposed variants from getting tore up on the long straights, but it could help. And it would save our Laze1-aspiring boy racer that extra thousand or so in upgrading parts, right?

**SVTBuckeye** · 08-21-2008, 05:51 AM

I don't know if a person could get the car down to a weight that would be competitive?

One of last years concerns was the difficulty in getting to the existing standard. People hava to take out the seam sealer and tar type insulation that is stuck on the metal surface right now. A time consuming and difficult job.

Maybe if you raced by remote controll, then that would save 150 to 200 lbs. lol

**Ted7rns** · 08-21-2008, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimbo305

I finally recalled one of my original points -- so if a guy wants to have a really dirt cheap Spec Focus, would there be some way to maintain parity by just mandating an alternate min weight for stock Zetec engines? I imagine on a lot of the tracks, light weight is not really going to save these proposed variants from getting tore up on the long straights, but it could help. And it would save our Laze1-aspiring boy racer that extra thousand or so in upgrading parts, right?

We had already looked into that and low modified lightweight Zetec. For the race car to be competitive would have to weigh around 2000-2100lbs with driver (for me that means the car would have to weigh 1800 to 1900lbs). It would be very hard to get down to that weight, if at all... Plus, you might have to spend just as much on the lightweight parts then it would be to just buying the standard SF Mods.

Also, keep in mind... Building or buying a Spec Focus race car is the cheapest part of racing in SF.

**brads03zx3** · 08-21-2008, 01:46 PM

True that. Building the car is the cheap part. Consumables are what get's you. These tires last a relatively long time when compared to a hankook or hoosier slick, but still cost $800/set. Fees are $300/weekend. Fuel at the track will run you in the neighborhood of $150/weekend. Fuel to get you to the track will depend on your distance, but it isn't uncommon to tow 3+ hours, so figure on $150-250 in fuel. This doesn't count the usual hotel/food/drink costs, brakes/fluids, maintenance and repairs. It is pretty tough to keep totals under $1000/weekend.

Now that we are in Koni Challenge (Scion tC that I work on), everything is literally 5 times the costs (racing license, entry fees, etc). I didn't get to see the full budget, but I feel pretty confident our Watkins Glen weekend was more than $10,000 not even considering the $ we put into changing the car (fuel pumps/dry break, etc.). A set of tires are $1000 and we bought at least two sets of dries and a set of wets for the MidO weekend. Racing is expensive. I spend about $500/weekend just for trackdays, I use street tires, and I sleep in my car.

**kimbo305** · 08-21-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

Racing is expensive.

What it boils down to, I guess

. I known I've heard that message plenty of times, but it sinks in slowly. When presented with racing upkeep costs, you're all right -- the initial car cost is nothing.

**Matt Marks** · 08-22-2008, 02:08 PM

FWIW - I picked up a running used 2.3 with good compression and all the goodies (injectors, fuel rail, intake, harness, coils, you name it) for $550 a few months ago from the local junk yard.

08-14-2008, 12:50 PM	#1
kimbo305 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 282	balance between Focus models I can't say I'm that familiar with Spec Focus, but it seems to me that Zetecs and 2.0 Duratecs aren't very popular? At least, they don't seem to place well in the standings. Is this because the more serious racers pick the models that are more powerful stock? Or is it possible the rules are naturally biased against the less powerful models? From my reading of it, any non-2.3-Duratec model faces the same minimum weight? The reason I ask is, it seems that SF would be a few thousand dollars cheaper for the prospective racer by getting a cheapo Zetec as opposed to a nice ST or SVT. But it'd be a shame if he couldn't break into the top ranks without a better motor. __________________ '04 PWSC SVT with LSD, HFC, and STS

08-14-2008, 01:10 PM	#2
lapp4sm TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 187	Re: balance between Focus models The 2.3l duratec cars have a minimum weight of 2675lbs. The others are 2600lbs. While the 2.3l and the SVT have more power stock, you basically can't do anything to the motors. The Zetec and the 2.0l Duratec have less power in stock form, but you can modify the motor (head, TB etc). If you buy a 2.3l or SVT car, it will cost more for the car, but you will spend less money on the motor. If you buy a Zetec or 2.0l duratec car, it will cost you less for the car, but you will spend more money on the motor. The rules are set up to balance all of the cars (best that they can be). And this year, a Zetec car will win the championship .

08-14-2008, 01:12 PM	#3
CCapaldi Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, MI Posts: 74	Re: balance between Focus models The min weight is 75 lbs higher on a 2.3 (2675) vs 2600 on all other models. We have had our cars in several different combos the last couple years and have been able to get all the different combos down to the same lap times. Our SVT I believe actually won more races in our division last season than our 2.3 duratecs! Simply put, if you decide on a Zetec, the car itself will be cheaper but once you add all the goodies you should end up right around the same price as a SVT or 2.3 build and just as fast. I actually have run across quite a few 2.3 cars just as cheap as some Zetec's. All in all it just depends what direction the racers what to head in, every combo has its benefits and down sides but our series directors and Ford have put alot of time and testing into getting everyone up to the same speed. Lapp.....you sure are pushing this championship thing, I might just pull over for you guys if you want it that bad! I thought you guys had a 2.3 in the new car for some reason. Reguardless, looking forward to meeting you fellas! __________________ 2007 & 2008 Spec Focus National Champion

08-14-2008, 02:32 PM	#4
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Thousand Oaks, California Posts: 4,198	Re: balance between Focus models What both Mark and Chris said is true (well…except for the part that Chris is going to pull over and let Ryan pass him at Nationals, its hard to do that when your behind anyways ). Also keep in mind we did make changes to the 2.3L in 2008 by adding 25lbs more ballast, changing the TB back to OEM and they can no longer use the 4.06 final gear. So, the first two years we did find that the 2.3L motor did have an advantage which we took care of. Just to let you know that for 2008 all power plants do have the same HP+Torque divided by Weight ratio. So, some motors will have higher HP, where others might have higher torque. The Highest HP car will be the 2.0L Duratec, but will have the least amount of Torque. The 2.3L will have the Highest Torque, but have the least amount of HP…. The Zetec and SVT kind of fall in between. What happens is each power plant have their own pluses and minuses. So, a lot depends on the track. Plus now some engine tuners might play around with different parts to help their own power plant. Some might not fully prep a 2.0L Duratec so he can have more torque, but might have less wHP. So a lot might depend on the track or the tracks in their own region. __________________ NASA Spec Focus Series Director \| NASA HPDE Instructor 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue <23> NASA is dedicated to aspiring or accomplished Focus racers and track enthusiast. Last edited by Ted7rns : 08-14-2008 at 02:38 PM.

08-21-2008, 02:13 AM	#7
kimbo305 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cambridge, MA Posts: 282	Re: balance between Focus models I finally recalled one of my original points -- so if a guy wants to have a really dirt cheap Spec Focus, would there be some way to maintain parity by just mandating an alternate min weight for stock Zetec engines? I imagine on a lot of the tracks, light weight is not really going to save these proposed variants from getting tore up on the long straights, but it could help. And it would save our Laze1-aspiring boy racer that extra thousand or so in upgrading parts, right? __________________ '04 PWSC SVT with LSD, HFC, and STS

08-21-2008, 05:51 AM	#8
SVTBuckeye TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Pataskala Ohio Posts: 681	Re: balance between Focus models I don't know if a person could get the car down to a weight that would be competitive? One of last years concerns was the difficulty in getting to the existing standard. People hava to take out the seam sealer and tar type insulation that is stuck on the metal surface right now. A time consuming and difficult job. Maybe if you raced by remote controll, then that would save 150 to 200 lbs. lol __________________ LEM 2007 & 2008 NASA Spec Focus racer w/ LCR racing 2002 SVT, Sonic Blue, NO options, vehicle 896 of 4788 Held at the factory Apr-June 02

08-21-2008, 01:46 PM	#10
brads03zx3 [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: California Posts: 9,064	Re: balance between Focus models True that. Building the car is the cheap part. Consumables are what get's you. These tires last a relatively long time when compared to a hankook or hoosier slick, but still cost $800/set. Fees are $300/weekend. Fuel at the track will run you in the neighborhood of $150/weekend. Fuel to get you to the track will depend on your distance, but it isn't uncommon to tow 3+ hours, so figure on $150-250 in fuel. This doesn't count the usual hotel/food/drink costs, brakes/fluids, maintenance and repairs. It is pretty tough to keep totals under $1000/weekend. Now that we are in Koni Challenge (Scion tC that I work on), everything is literally 5 times the costs (racing license, entry fees, etc). I didn't get to see the full budget, but I feel pretty confident our Watkins Glen weekend was more than $10,000 not even considering the $ we put into changing the car (fuel pumps/dry break, etc.). A set of tires are $1000 and we bought at least two sets of dries and a set of wets for the MidO weekend. Racing is expensive. I spend about $500/weekend just for trackdays, I use street tires, and I sleep in my car. __________________ Mountain Tested----'03 zetec DuraMonster---'03 duratec ZX3 vs MNTN - 9/0 & ZX3 vs TRACK - 4/1 *JCM Racing #88* Bouncing Back---Bigger, Faster, Stronger Vacuum Vulture Racing - We put the ARG in 'CHARGED

08-22-2008, 02:08 PM	#12
Matt Marks TEAM Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 237	Re: balance between Focus models FWIW - I picked up a running used 2.3 with good compression and all the goodies (injectors, fuel rail, intake, harness, coils, you name it) for $550 a few months ago from the local junk yard. __________________ 2007 NASA Mid-Atlantic Spec Focus Champion (Undefeated in a class of 1) 2007 Spec Focus National Championship - 4th place 2006 NASA Mid-Atlantic 944 Supercup - Champion

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