Waterford Hills Track Day - The Ford Focus Forum

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-17-2009, 10:10 AM

Hey guys, I have been working on stacking my hours for the license. Taking longer than expected... Anyway I just want to share my latest experience. Check this videos out in youtube.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-LhK...ture=quicklist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYNGj...ture=quicklist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHim...ture=quicklist

And the one I learned the most from:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PjVt...ture=quicklist

Have fun watching those!

**f2focus** · 06-17-2009, 04:03 PM

My first reaction was OH NO!!!

I am glad you are OK, you sure waited a long time there...

Any major damage to the car?

**blueovaldave** · 06-17-2009, 04:46 PM

He did exactly what they have always taught me in the HPDEs I have ever run. Sit still until someone comes to get you. Do not get out of your car, ect.

I would have done the same thing. I would have been cussing more though sitting there sideways.

**ckisner** · 06-17-2009, 08:48 PM

wow. that sucks. how's the car?

are you going to the open track day in august? looks like august is going to be a light spec focus month for me so i think i'm doing the open track at the beginning of august and the waterford hills race #5 at the end.

by the way, while i was looking at your videos i came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLorAXP2qlI

i'm famous!

see how i expertly let him pass?

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-17-2009, 11:09 PM

Actually not much happened. Dent on the front fender that I can just pull out... Bend spindle that I ordered from steve for like $70 something... Broke Brake rotor... The cage held very good although it wasn't a hard roll. BTW from some pics i found a corvette went off to the gravel pit behind me so kind of a good thing I didn't get out of the car. I mean if i see flames i'm out but unless i see it there is no reason to risk it.

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-17-2009, 11:10 PM

BTW what times were you guys doing on waterford?

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-17-2009, 11:11 PM

BTW the car seems like it will be up and running in a week for my first autoX of the season.

**sleeperlove** · 06-18-2009, 11:09 AM

Glad you and the car are ok!

now

Not sure if you still do it, but if you are shuffle steering still like in that SM vid, cut that **** out.

**BOWERSdaAZIAN** · 06-18-2009, 12:47 PM

Holy Crap!

To reiterate, Glad you are okay as well as the car. Its hard to imagine a slow speed encounter like that could roll you, but i guess berms or the like can do anything.

Do you have a roll bar or a full cage? Either way it held up admirably.

**blueovaldave** · 06-18-2009, 01:26 PM

Looked kind of like drop off and grass got him on that one.

**mzemnickas** · 06-18-2009, 02:35 PM

When we were there in April for Drivers school, I think we were running 1.24/1.25's

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-18-2009, 02:38 PM

Well I have full Roll cage and yes it held pretty good.

On the Shuffle steering comment... What do you mean by that? What is shuffle steering? and which part of the vid so I can see how to correct it. Thanks!!

BTW got the parts in today from Steve.

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-18-2009, 02:42 PM

Looked at the video over and if you mean crossing of hand over hand I guess that was part of trying to go from straight to countersteer lock as quick as possible to save it. I don't believe I crossed hands on the rest but you just gave me a cool idea to record my body movement through a couple laps to determine what i'm doing... and my inputs...

**Ted7rns** · 06-18-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InFocusTraSTi

Looked at the video over and if you mean crossing of hand over hand I guess that was part of trying to go from straight to countersteer lock as quick as possible to save it. I don't believe I crossed hands on the rest but you just gave me a cool idea to record my body movement through a couple laps to determine what i'm doing... and my inputs...

That is what it looks like you did... You just crossed your hands to full lock. You were not shuffle steering from what I can tell. Besides there's a lot of race car drivers that shuffle a little anyways.

**Ted7rns** · 06-18-2009, 03:42 PM

added
I sometimes use a reverse shuffle and teach that as well, because many of the students have airbags in there car the last thing you want is to be is totally crossed armed. This also allows you to push the wheel with the opposite hand and stabilizing the wheel with the other hand. When you reverse shuffle you pushing the wheel through the 12 O'clock position rather than pulling it towards the 6 o'clock.

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-18-2009, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted7rns

added
I sometimes use a reverse shuffle and teach that as well, because many of the students have airbags in there car the last thing you want is to be is totally crossed armed. This also allows you to push the wheel with the opposite hand and stabilizing the wheel with the other hand. When you reverse shuffle you pushing the wheel through the 12 O'clock position rather than pulling it towards the 6 o'clock.

That reverse shuffle makes since... lets hope I don't have to keep shuffling!!

**ckisner** · 06-18-2009, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InFocusTraSTi

BTW what times were you guys doing on waterford?

my best times are in the 1:22s but during a race i usually run 1:23-1:24 when there isn't too much traffic.

**brads03zx3** · 06-18-2009, 09:35 PM

I shuffle steer a bit. I didn't do it for a long time, but I don't like to be at the complete end of my adjustment. I have no leverage over the wheel at all when my arms are crossed up. Instead of 9 & 3, coming into a right hander I may start at 8 & 2. I'm a 'push' steer kind of guy. In a right hand turn, I push the wheel up with my left hand. Some of this is my autocross experience in which much of the course does not allow 9 & 3 hand position. As Ted says, our stock racks are quite slow. Pro drivers many times drive pro cars (like the joey hand video posted). I can pretty much guarantee that is not a stock rack.

Glad you and the car are okay. I haven't seen a lot of criticism posted, so I'll give my own light. By the sound, you were completely off the gas in the corner. It also appears the nose dives down, suggesting you may have tapped the brakes. A loose car actually helps my reaction time a bit. As soon as I feel the back end step out, I am feeding a lot of gas, usually full throttle to pull out of the oversteer condition. Sideways+full throttle+duratec torque = lots of smoke

**BadIdea** · 06-18-2009, 10:04 PM

I'm in the shuffle steering sucks camp.

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-19-2009, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleeperlove

I was referring to your sm video, moving your hands around all the time.

Not sure which SM video you mean...

Also in waterford there is a kind of bump on that corner plus downhill. I have had my car slide sideways before and do the same thing... countersteer and WOT. This one had too much inertia going into it and couldn't get it straight... I think the other mistake was that I tried to save it then kind of gave up when I thought I couldn't ... leasson learned: never never never give up... I was just ready to let the car spin into the grass except it had actually stopped spinning so it slide perpendicular to the movement into the grass... If I wouldn't have given up I would have gone into the grass straighter... I guess I was thinking it would keep spining and gone into the grass rear end first... which is part of the reason I gave up... One of the other videos you can see I slide and sort of saved it but went 4 wheels into the grass... I rejoined the group slowly but it wasnt a trouble safari out of the track...

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-19-2009, 07:53 PM

BTW wana see some crazy steering check this one out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbUCF...e=channel_page

That was about 3 years ago doing a rally cross in my STi.

**sleeperlove** · 06-19-2009, 07:57 PM

The one that Chris posted early in the thread.

**InFocusTraSTi** · 06-19-2009, 09:47 PM

OH SM as in Spec Miata... That is not me he just came across that video of the Miata following him.

BTW is it me or is the steering wheel on that miata SUPER HUGE!!!

06-17-2009, 10:10 AM	#1 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Waterford Hills Track Day Hey guys, I have been working on stacking my hours for the license. Taking longer than expected... Anyway I just want to share my latest experience. Check this videos out in youtube.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-LhK...ture=quicklist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYNGj...ture=quicklist http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwHim...ture=quicklist And the one I learned the most from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PjVt...ture=quicklist Have fun watching those!

06-17-2009, 04:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
f2focus Associate Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Whittier, CA Posts: 2,433	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day My first reaction was OH NO!!! I am glad you are OK, you sure waited a long time there... Any major damage to the car? __________________ Authorized Dealer for: Brembo Brakes, Clutchnet, Vogtland, Eibach, Koni, Tokico, Ingalls, Ireland Engineering, Crower Cams, Supertech, ACT Clutch, ARP Studs, Kyowa Wheels, Nitto Tires, Toyo Tires, StopTech Brakes, Centric Brakes, TurboSmart, Cosworth, Street Scene. www.f2focus.com Vehicles: 2008 Ford Fusion, 2008 Focus Coupe, 2010 Mazda 3 (Coming), 2011 Fiesta (planned)

06-17-2009, 04:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
blueovaldave Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Fredrick, Md Posts: 3,561	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day He did exactly what they have always taught me in the HPDEs I have ever run. Sit still until someone comes to get you. Do not get out of your car, ect. I would have done the same thing. I would have been cussing more though sitting there sideways. __________________ 2001 S2 Liquid Grey, PWSC 252 hp, 195 lb/tq www.strikeforce1.com http://www.emraracing.org

06-17-2009, 08:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
ckisner TEAM Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 306	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day wow. that sucks. how's the car? are you going to the open track day in august? looks like august is going to be a light spec focus month for me so i think i'm doing the open track at the beginning of august and the waterford hills race #5 at the end. by the way, while i was looking at your videos i came across this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLorAXP2qlI i'm famous! see how i expertly let him pass? __________________ '02 Sonic Blue Focus SVT (Spec Foci)

06-17-2009, 11:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day Actually not much happened. Dent on the front fender that I can just pull out... Bend spindle that I ordered from steve for like $70 something... Broke Brake rotor... The cage held very good although it wasn't a hard roll. BTW from some pics i found a corvette went off to the gravel pit behind me so kind of a good thing I didn't get out of the car. I mean if i see flames i'm out but unless i see it there is no reason to risk it.

06-17-2009, 11:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day BTW what times were you guys doing on waterford?

06-17-2009, 11:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day BTW the car seems like it will be up and running in a week for my first autoX of the season.

06-18-2009, 11:09 AM	#8 (permalink)
sleeperlove You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Apex hunting Posts: 9,823	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day Glad you and the car are ok! now Not sure if you still do it, but if you are shuffle steering still like in that SM vid, cut that ** out. __________________ “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” - Bruce Lee**

06-18-2009, 12:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
BOWERSdaAZIAN Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NorCal ; Wherever the USAF takes me Posts: 1,663	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day Holy Crap! To reiterate, Glad you are okay as well as the car. Its hard to imagine a slow speed encounter like that could roll you, but i guess berms or the like can do anything. Do you have a roll bar or a full cage? Either way it held up admirably. __________________ USAF Electronic Warfare Motto(s): "Jam Harder, Penetrate Deeper, Dispense Longer" "In God we Trust... All Others we Monitor, Jam or Deceive" Proud owner of former FocusSport/JCM racing Powerworks SVT.

06-18-2009, 01:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
blueovaldave Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Fredrick, Md Posts: 3,561	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day Looked kind of like drop off and grass got him on that one. __________________ 2001 S2 Liquid Grey, PWSC 252 hp, 195 lb/tq www.strikeforce1.com http://www.emraracing.org

06-18-2009, 02:35 PM	#11 (permalink)
mzemnickas Rookie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 25	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day When we were there in April for Drivers school, I think we were running 1.24/1.25's

06-18-2009, 02:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day Well I have full Roll cage and yes it held pretty good. On the Shuffle steering comment... What do you mean by that? What is shuffle steering? and which part of the vid so I can see how to correct it. Thanks!! BTW got the parts in today from Steve.

06-18-2009, 02:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day Looked at the video over and if you mean crossing of hand over hand I guess that was part of trying to go from straight to countersteer lock as quick as possible to save it. I don't believe I crossed hands on the rest but you just gave me a cool idea to record my body movement through a couple laps to determine what i'm doing... and my inputs...

06-18-2009, 03:42 PM	#15 (permalink)
Ted7rns Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Thousand Oaks, California Posts: 4,646	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day added I sometimes use a reverse shuffle and teach that as well, because many of the students have airbags in there car the last thing you want is to be is totally crossed armed. This also allows you to push the wheel with the opposite hand and stabilizing the wheel with the other hand. When you reverse shuffle you pushing the wheel through the 12 O'clock position rather than pulling it towards the 6 o'clock. __________________ 2002 Ford Focus ZX3 Malibu Blue

06-18-2009, 09:35 PM	#18 (permalink)
brads03zx3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Colorado Posts: 11,660	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day I shuffle steer a bit. I didn't do it for a long time, but I don't like to be at the complete end of my adjustment. I have no leverage over the wheel at all when my arms are crossed up. Instead of 9 & 3, coming into a right hander I may start at 8 & 2. I'm a 'push' steer kind of guy. In a right hand turn, I push the wheel up with my left hand. Some of this is my autocross experience in which much of the course does not allow 9 & 3 hand position. As Ted says, our stock racks are quite slow. Pro drivers many times drive pro cars (like the joey hand video posted). I can pretty much guarantee that is not a stock rack. Glad you and the car are okay. I haven't seen a lot of criticism posted, so I'll give my own light. By the sound, you were completely off the gas in the corner. It also appears the nose dives down, suggesting you may have tapped the brakes. A loose car actually helps my reaction time a bit. As soon as I feel the back end step out, I am feeding a lot of gas, usually full throttle to pull out of the oversteer condition. Sideways+full throttle+duratec torque = lots of smoke __________________ Mountain Tested----'03 zetec ZX3 vs MNTN - 15-1 & ZX3 vs TRACK - 23/1 *JCM Racing #88* Back to Dual Purpose Focusing Vacuum Vulture Racing - We add stiffness

06-18-2009, 10:04 PM	#19 (permalink)
BadIdea Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Cleveland Posts: 2,415	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day I'm in the shuffle steering sucks camp. __________________ '02 svt spec focus silver/black PCA National DE Instructor #200503 107

06-19-2009, 07:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day BTW wana see some crazy steering check this one out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbUCF...e=channel_page That was about 3 years ago doing a rally cross in my STi.

06-19-2009, 07:57 PM	#22 (permalink)
sleeperlove You wouldn't like me when I'm angry. Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Apex hunting Posts: 9,823	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day The one that Chris posted early in the thread. __________________ “Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.” - Bruce Lee

06-19-2009, 09:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
InFocusTraSTi TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 241	Re: Waterford Hills Track Day OH SM as in Spec Miata... That is not me he just came across that video of the Miata following him. BTW is it me or is the steering wheel on that miata SUPER HUGE!!!

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