2010 SF Tire Poll

[Ted7rns]

Hey, I would like to get an idea on what tire you guys would like to use in 2010?

1. Toyo R888s 215/45x17
2. Toyo RA1 205/40x17
3. Use both sets

[Ted7rns]

A couple of things to keep in mind.

1. The R888s ware out faster
2. There’s more of a chance of bending a rim with an RA1
3. The R888s look better cosmetically on our race cars.
4. The RA1 are less temperature sensitive
5. It seems the 215 size R888s are slightly faster then the 205 RA1s.

[BUR_ZX3]

d.) Something less expensive than the options presented

[BadIdea]

3. The R888s look better cosmetically on our race cars.

Most important reason IMO. Why can't they make the RA-1 in 215/45 and scrap the R88* all together?

[Ted7rns]

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

d.) Something less expensive than the options presented

What's cheaper then a RA1?

[capaldi22]

Do we have to use Toyo's? The production focus comes with Hankook's on it why not use what ford uses? They have a 225/45/17. Bfgoodrich also has a 225/45/17 which is used on the mx5 cup car both of these tires have alot better life than any toyo.

[Ted7rns]

Yeah, NASA signed a deal with Toyo where all Spec Tire Series must use Toyo's. The only way to get around it is if we have an open tire rule.

As a matter of fact it really says all Spec Tires must be RA1's for 2010. But, we might have a case to stay with the R888s because the size is better for our cars. Unless Toyo plans to make 215/45x17s in RA1s.

[BUR_ZX3]

Open tire rule it is!


Sorry... Toyo is not on my good list lately.

[capaldi22]

Ted can you put on open tire rule on your poll to see if there is any intrest.

[WebXtremes]

Another spec class (Pro3 E30 BMW) was official as of yesterday going back to the RA-1s for 2010. Same with the Miata Spec Class.

[Ted7rns]

Here's the new poll

[Ted7rns]

New Poll

[lapp4sm]

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

Open tire rule it is!


Sorry... Toyo is not on my good list lately.

Cars that just sit in garages, don't need tires .

Get that car done.....

[sleeperlove]

Making it an open tire rule just adds more cost to the game when people start bringing Hoosiers et al out.

[brads03zx3]

Absolutely. The Toyo RA1 is about the cheapest setup going short of a sub-par street tire.

[BUR_ZX3]

No offense to anyone here, but "NASA Folk" tend to believe that Toyo is God's gift to racing rubber, and that isn't the case, not by a long shot. But because Toyo has thrown money at the powers that be, Toyo is the only game in town.

Was there ever any other thorough testing done with any other tire when Spec Focus was being developed? Or was it only with the available choices from one specific manufacturer?

I think Toyo has abused their relationship with NASA to the point where it may be a "level" playing field, but its no help to the competetors because they're stuck in a monopolistic market where they have no ability to seek the best bargain... they can order from a handful of vendors with fixed pricing.

No competition, no open market, not fair to racers.

If tire testing was done with multiple manufacturers, then I'd like to see the data. But the fact is, in the open market, tire manufacturers are constantly changing their compounds to try to beat out their competetors. Toyo, by making an "exclusive" deal has basically said "we don't need to improve, because you're stuck using us anyway."

Awesome.

[BUR_ZX3]

Oh, and to address the Hoosier issue... Just because its "open tires" doesn't mean literally "open, run anything"

Spec it out. Here's the allowable sizes, here's the minimum treadwear (100 for example). Such a rule would prohibit anyone from running qualifying supersticky tires in the qualifying and getting a grid advantage, and maintain some level of control in the field.

[brads03zx3]

Todd, you've got it all figured out. And NASA folk don't believe Toyo is God's gift to racing rubber. It IS one of the best deals going financially, and the tire isn't terrible by any means.

Spec Focus is a spec class. Follow the rest of NASA guidelines by specifiying the Toyo RA1 as the spec tire. If not, this is no longer a spec class.

[Ted7rns]

We tested 3 Manufactures, Toyo, Kumho and Hankooks, I also had a conversation with Nitto as well. It came down that Toyo offer us the best deal and provided the best bang for the buck. At the time no other tire was offering more heat cycles/per cost then the RA1s.

As far as Data is concern, I did the test with Kumho and the tire was just too big for our cars, The only data that was collected was lap times. The Hankooks Data you would have to ask Capaldi/Ford Racing for those.

Todd is there a specific tire and sponsor that you’re thinking is better then the Toyo? Or what do you have in mind?

[Ted7rns]

Just to let everyone know SCCA Spec Miata's are also switching back to the RA1
http://www.scca.com/newsarticle.aspx?hub=1&news=3661

[sleeperlove]

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

No offense to anyone here, but "NASA Folk" tend to believe that Toyo is God's gift to racing rubber, and that isn't the case, not by a long shot. But because Toyo has thrown money at the powers that be, Toyo is the only game in town.

Was there ever any other thorough testing done with any other tire when Spec Focus was being developed? Or was it only with the available choices from one specific manufacturer?

I think Toyo has abused their relationship with NASA to the point where it may be a "level" playing field, but its no help to the competetors because they're stuck in a monopolistic market where they have no ability to seek the best bargain... they can order from a handful of vendors with fixed pricing.

No competition, no open market, not fair to racers.

If tire testing was done with multiple manufacturers, then I'd like to see the data. But the fact is, in the open market, tire manufacturers are constantly changing their compounds to try to beat out their competetors. Toyo, by making an "exclusive" deal has basically said "we don't need to improve, because you're stuck using us anyway."

Awesome.

Do you know of a tire that will last as long as RA-1s with the level of grip that they offer? They certainly aren't as fast as hoosiers, v700s, et al but I challenge you to get as many days out of any of those as you can get out of RA1s.

Its SPEC focus for a reason, not bring what you want focus, if you want open rules so you can buy whatever parts you want for maximum speed out of them , go race PT someday when you finish the car.

[Ted7rns]

I think it’s good we have a discussion about different tire options. This is one of the reasons why I posted the poll. But, there’s a couple of things we have to keep in mind with looking at a “Spec” tires.

1. Is the size availability. I think anything bigger then 215/45x17 might have some problems with our suspension. We would have to really test that size with the new springs, but it might work.

2. We need a tire that can be used in the rain or a manufacture that has both dry and wet tires. I do not think it’s a good idea to use street tires in the rain in a club racing series.

3. They would also have to have a contingency better then Toyo

4. Have tire availability at the most regional tracks and at Nations.

Here the list I have… please join in if you have more info

Hankook. Has a 225/45x17 R-Compound tire, but they do not have a rain tire.
Kumho Has a 225/45x17 R-Compound Tire, but they do not have a rain tire.
BFG has a 225/45x17 R-Compound Tire, but they do not have a rain tire.
Hoosier has 225/45x17 or 215/40x17 R-Compound Tire and they have a rain tire. The problem is the tires cost a lot and they don’t last very long.
Nitto has a 215/45x17 or 215/40x17 R-Compound Tire and they work in the rain as well
Toyo has a 215/45x17 or 215/40x17 R-Compound Tire and they work in the rain as well

So basically that leaves two choices (because the Hoosiers are not cost affected), Nitto and Toyo. If those are the two choices, I don’t see how Nitto is going make the series better or not.

[68 Touring Car]

Originally Posted by Ted7rns

I think it’s good we have a discussion about different tire options. This is one of the reasons why I posted the poll. But, there’s a couple of things we have to keep in mind with looking at a “Spec” tires.

1. Is the size availability. I think anything bigger then 215/45x17 might have some problems with our suspension. We would have to really test that size with the new springs, but it might work.

2. We need a tire that can be used in the rain or a manufacture that has both dry and wet tires. I do not think it’s a good idea to use street tires in the rain in a club racing series.

3. They would also have to have a contingency better then Toyo

4. Have tire availability at the most regional tracks and at Nations.

Here the list I have… please join in if you have more info

Hankook. Has a 225/45x17 R-Compound tire, but they do not have a rain tire.
Kumho Has a 225/45x17 R-Compound Tire, but they do not have a rain tire.
BFG has a 225/45x17 R-Compound Tire, but they do not have a rain tire.
Hoosier has 225/45x17 or 215/40x17 R-Compound Tire and they have a rain tire. The problem is the tires cost a lot and they don’t last very long.
Nitto has a 215/45x17 or 215/40x17 R-Compound Tire and they work in the rain as well
Toyo has a 215/45x17 or 215/40x17 R-Compound Tire and they work in the rain as well

So basically that leaves two choices (because the Hoosiers are not cost affected), Nitto and Toyo. If those are the two choices, I don’t see how Nitto is going make the series better or not.

Ted a couple of the tire co that do not specify a R-compound do use a full thread street tire for the rain. We use a BFG KDW in the rain and the BFG R-Compound Tire for the dry. Just a thought.

[Ted7rns]

Originally Posted by 68 Touring Car

Ted a couple of the tire co that do not specify a R-compound do use a full thread street tire for the rain. We use a BFG KDW in the rain and the BFG R-Compound Tire for the dry. Just a thought.

Yeah I know. I just don't like the thought of us skating around on street tires, and other race classes in our race group being on rain race tires. If we were the only cars out that, it would be fine....Again, just thinking out loud.

[Ted7rns]

Originally Posted by BUR_ZX3

Oh, and to address the Hoosier issue... Just because its "open tires" doesn't mean literally "open, run anything"

Spec it out. Here's the allowable sizes, here's the minimum treadwear (100 for example). Such a rule would prohibit anyone from running qualifying supersticky tires in the qualifying and getting a grid advantage, and maintain some level of control in the field.

I think that is a good idea to look into. I’m not opposed to have a somewhat open tire rule. If this gives racers a chance to find a local tire company sponsor, a tire manufacture or used tires from another series… then it’s something to look into. I'm just getting a feel what the Spec Focus racers would like to do.

I think I am opposed to switch to another Spec Tire Company. So, it basically comes down to the poll.

1. R888 215/45x17
2. RA1 205/40x17
3. Both Toyos
4. Open Tire (Restricted to size and compound rating).