Please Help on my Autocross Setup!!!!

[HawaiianFocusR]

Bottom line is that im Definately gonna lower the car but wanna kick some butt still at Autocross but im still dunno what i should get, heres the link to my suspesion thread:
http://www.focaljet.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001131.html

Since this Motorsports i could get a little bit more input from the MOTORSPORTS guys instead of the "other" guys who lower their car

Thanks for any input!

[ZXmurph]

My first questions are always

1.) How much experience do you have? In what cars?

2.) Why not run stock class? I always recommend running stock and street tires for 8-10 events!! You will be so much quicker when you start "bumping" up, and better yet you will have a much keener ability to quantify changes in the car.

.02

[ZX3rcr]

ZXMurph is correct; run the number of events he recommends or do as I'm doing this season here in the North Texas Region SCCA. I'm using this whole first season with my 2000 ZX3 as a "test" season to get my skills honed (this is my first front-driver in 10 years!) and to establish a baseline from which I can decide what mods I want to do for next season. I've made all the mods I can to stay in "H" Stock, and next season I'll probably move to "STS" (Street Touring) as the horsepower mods I want to make would by themselves knock me out of Stock. I probably won't lower the car due to the bad roads around here, and I've already spent a lot of money buying another set of 15" wheels to mount my present race tires on, so I probably won't go "Plus 1" or "Plus 2" on the wheel/tire combo. I WILL be getting some new shocks though, and I'm really looking hard at the S2 shocks/struts; stiffer than my present ZX3's setup and the price can't be beat! Long story short, you can have the most kick-butt car with mega-horsepower and glued-to-the-ground handling, but if you don't have EXPERIENCE, it's all for naught! Just ask the guys who were bragging about their Type-Rs at the last track event I attended on Aug. 23rd; I've driven the track before, they hadn't, and my "stock" Focus whipped their VTEC tails! Yowza!

[HawaiianFocusR]

Ummm experience huh???? Hmmm lemme think for a sec???
.

.

Does Hawaii H-Stock Regional Campion enough experience??? Hmmm??? I wonder??

LOL yeah ive been doin Autocross ONE MONTH after buyin my Focus, only been beat ONCE, which was my first time out!!!! LOL. And never missed a session since. Right now I LOVE H-stock, but unlike you mainland boyz I only have 2 or not-even 3 competitors on a single month...so zzzzzzzzzz. But really im just runnin stock and comparin myself to DSP and CSP times and i can beat half that bracket easy

Sooooooooooo, i just wanna run Autocross and still have fun, but i wanna make sure that the money i drop into suspension is worth it.
Right now EXPERIENCE is not a problem, even the STS boyz have given me respect when runnin the cones.

TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT:
I want to drop the car low enough to be able to SWAP the rims out with the stocks when i race and NOT hurt the suspension or have to do ANY adjustments.

Thanks for the input thus far!!

[HawaiianFocusR]

Oh,

ZXmurph, my previous post hopefully answered your questions. I've raced since June 2000 and never stopped, the Focus is the only car ive ever raced in.
And OMG i bought Kumho's in this past June and woohoo lovin um to death!!! I bought the Performance ones not the slicks, but still, kicks major butt.

ZX3rcr: So far skills are honed pretty damn well, right now if im not mistaken to my "feeling" of my ZX3 i want to "correct":
1.Body Roll/Lean, ugh....nuff said.
2.Want more quicker response, "mini go-cart" in other words.

Again, thanks!

[corey_dyck]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HawaiianFocusR:
I've raced since June 2000 and never stopped, the Focus is the only car ive ever raced in.
&lt;snip&gt;
1.Body Roll/Lean, ugh....nuff said.
2.Want more quicker response, "mini go-cart" in other words.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool! I'm on the same path as you, I started autocrossing right after I got the car in June 2000.

Go way back in the Motorsports forum, you'll find all kinds of good stuff on suspension setups. Basically, do a search for P-51 and TeamDFL's posts. These guys have been at this racing thing for a while, they understand the science behind it, and they can explain it well. They've given me and others lots of good advice.

To address your concerns:
1. Body roll. Springs are #1 when it comes to controlling steady-state body roll. Use swaybars for over/understeer tuning, not decreasing roll. Dampers affect transient body roll, i.e. slaloms. (Interesting story: At the Evolution school, we set my front Koni dampers to full stiff while my instructor was driving. He was grinning like a crazed lunatic until we got out of the slalom. It was amazing in the slalom, but it was less than optimum everywhere else.)

2. Quicker response. You've already got better tires, so that part is solved. If you mean less understeer, an Eibach rear bar will get the rear end loose combined with the stock suspension. If you mean faster transitional response to steering inputs, look at dampers. (The same Evolution instructor said that dampers control everything in autocross, that's why they spend $$$$ on Penske dampers in stock class) I got Konis because they are adjustable to fine-tune your handling.

Also, the bumpstops can really take over when you lower the Focus, check out these posts: http://www.focaljet.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000918.html http://www.focaljet.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001076.html

There's lots of food for thought, it's greatly diluted, but it's a start. I'd offer you a ride in my car, but I don't think you'll be coming to Winnipeg anytime soon!

[HawaiianFocusR]

Holy cow thanks for that awsome post Cory. I will definately look up those posts by P-51 and TeamDFL.

[ZXmurph]

Cheers and congrats on ANY championship, no matter how many competitors!!

but go for more than respect from STS boys, because I can tell you that is not that fast a class in my region.

I guess I am always conservative with mods, because even though you are bored now, it can get pretty old bumping up to a way faster class because of one mod and being uncompetitive with the front runners.

Congrats again and have fun.....those threads are indeed the current "wazzup" in set-up options....

[This message has been edited by ZXmurph (edited 09-10-2001).]

[ZXmurph]

You must be right about our STS drivers- because STS has never even flirted with top PAX times here. I do not intend any disrespect but with STS being so relatively new- it simply tends to attract mildly built street cars here with fairly inexperienced drivers with all the other ones busy in other classes.
I am stuck in bastard "Street Mod" in my GTI because of my motor swap and it attracts more of those "mutant" cars compared to STS and its a race tire class. I am proud to almost ALWAYS finish second (an irritating full second or so) to an Evolution instructor in a 300hp hoosier'd MR2. BASTARD!!
We have a AS Solo II national champ,the womens AS champ,a multiple SS national champ, a multiple CS national champ,a CSP national champ, a BS ProSolo national champ, and awomen's SS national champion- I am not just waving a boasting flag-- hell I ain't part of that success-- it just means that other classes have been competitive and fully developed for a long time. It is a tremendously fast and experienced region that owns PAX and unfortunately lacks more STS involvement.......but I am sure that will change sometime- STS just makes the a lot of sense for most daily driven cars like ours. There has been a sudden WRX invasion so the class suddenly has a lot more players. I haven't run the Focus against our mild crew yet but I shall keep you posted.

Every region is different I suppose and that keeps it interesting, I would love to check others out-
by the way the GS-R running DSP should be right about there with BSP in my observations and I am convinced at least on the tighter courses you WILL catch the FS cars soon. Nice V-8 sounds and all but just heavy and sloppy even with the R rubber.

I think I mentioned it before sometime but I still get a kick out of my region's frequent TTD D-mod super 7 ..... powered by a bone stock Zetec baby!! wooooooo hooooooo!!!!!

anyway good luck and have fun everyone
.....er sorry about waaaaaay off topic I guess.....
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2001 pitch black ZX3 "special order"no power,Premium Grp+AdvanceTrac,KW SPORT KIT WITH AUTOCRAFT REAR SQUISHIES INSTEAD OF IDIOTIC CLICKING KWs THAT SIT IN LIVING ROOM!thanks FT!!!
1984 VW GTI 2.0 16v "Street Mod" Auto-Xer 1900lbs/155hp- (certified C.A.R.B. swap)Schrick,GarretECU,Bilsteins,H&R GruppeG45O/300,KumhoVictoracer,Shine bar,Porterfields,Techtonics Exh.
1979 VW RABBIT Diesel "S.U.V." 45mpg Surfmobile- wipe your feet after getting OUT-(C.A.R.B.'s evil smoking nemesis)

[This message has been edited by ZXmurph (edited 09-10-2001).]

[Spectre23]

I agree that STS attracts under-developed drivers. I was new last year. Been to about 40 races in the 2 years I have been doing this though. My car is prepped very well and could be very dangerous with a better driver behind the wheel. I let a former SS national champ and another national champ (don't remember the class) drive my car and it was their first time ever in a Subaru and one was about .1 off my time, the other beat my best time by a full second.

I came out to Cali for a couple Pro Solo's earlier this year. Beat all the Cali guys, but still did poorly over all. I always suck it up at Pros even against the locals that I always beat for some reason.

On a side note, it is nice getting to be a better driver and becoming trusted enough that these national competitors will let you drive their cars.

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#38 STS Utah Region
Team ARG!

[ZXmurph]

"On a side note, it is nice getting to be a better driver and becoming trusted enough that these national competitors will let you drive their cars."

Cheers indeed!
I got a Z06 drive and while I was a "bit" off the owners pace- I definitely felt legit.....

[Spectre23]

Sounds like ZXmurph needs better drivers in STS. Here out of 100+ cars, STS accounts for at least 3, sometimes 4 or 5 out of the top 5 PAX spots. My raw times are usually better than GS and always much fatser than HS. I am usually within a second of the FS guys. And yes, all our stock class guys use race tires. We have a special PAXed class for the street tire guys.

We have a guy that is in secon in STS right now, when he throws Hoosiers on and runs DSP in his GSR, he is usually within a second of our BSP guys in their Corvettes on Hoosiers. It is amzing what a difference those race tires make.

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#38 STS Utah Region
Team ARG!

[HawaiianFocusR]

Heh, its funny how things go off topic, but thats ok with me!!!!

Anyway back to ON TOPIC questions

Do any of you swap out your rims with the stock rims/tires? If so whats your suspension setup? And how "low" can you go before doin that is impossisble?

Oh yeah, Im taking a huge hit on shipping but im returning the pro-kits. Ive decided on H&R Sport Springs instead to combine with my soon-to-be Eibach Pro Damper kit. Whatcha guys think?

[Spectre23]

Unfortunately I can't help you much with that. I race a Subaru, not a Focus. There has never even been a Focus at any of our events here.

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#38 STS Utah Region
Team ARG!

[ZXmurph]

same here........and I would tend to lean toward keeping the Eibach springs with their custom valved dampers......I would assume they valve them to match their spings?

[HawaiianFocusR]

***UPDATE***
Ok after reading that HUUUUGE post from P51 about suspension, "roll-center", etc...
That post ALONE help me decide to KEEP the Eibach pro-kits and i just ordered the pro dampers today. Im very happy, thanks for the inputs!