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Old 03-29-2002, 12:02 PM   #1
Daniel
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Original Question from speedkills:

i am new to the whole manual driving thing, so i was wondering about shifting and stuff... i have read on here how people shift anywhere between 5k and 6.5k... but my question is how long do you keep the rpm's at your max shifting rpm before you shift? do you shift as soon as you hit your desired rpm or do you hold it there for a bit? this is probably a dumb question, but as i said, i am new to manual driving.... thanks for any help

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, if your RPMs aren't going up, you aren't accelerating. That's not getting you anywhere, now is it? The shift point is the point where you'll have more power in the next gear than your current one if you go any faster.

Thus, if you're accelerating, you should shift as soon as you get to that point in a quick manner and continue... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Last edited by OmniFocus : 12-06-2005 at 12:34 AM.
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Old 03-29-2002, 02:01 PM   #2
 
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

I usuall shift at about 500 rpm before the peak shift point because I find that most people lightly press the gas pedal harder right before they depress the clutch. Just my .02.
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Old 03-29-2002, 03:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Brian,
Welcome to manual driving ! Once you've tried the increased control you have with a manual transmission, you'll never go back (as long as you get over all the embarrassing bits, like stalling the car at a light.... no wait, I still do that [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] )

I can answer specific questions better than I can give you a whole tutorial in manual transmission shifting, so fire away !

Here's a couple thoughts:
Always use the clutch. Some guys like to "bang shift" without using the clutch to save a couple split seconds. It always costs you lots of money in the long run, because you'll be replacing transmission parts. I've been racing for over 13 years, and I ALWAYS use the clutch. It might cost me 1/10 second per shift, but my car always crosses the finish line. (Okay, well not always, but never because of gearbox failure.)

Generally, you'll accelerate up to the point that you want to shift to the next higher gear, shift and keep right on going. No hesitation prior to shifting. The point at which you shift completely depends on what you're doing - racing, or driving quietly past a police officer ;-), and the surface conditions (shift up at lower rpm on slippery surfaces, snow/ice, but often don't shift into higher gear at all, keeping the engine at a rev range where there is useful power to quickly react to skids)

Daniel is correct, you will get to feel where the power band is in all the gears, and you will naturally shift when you've got adequate power in the next higher gear to continue to accelerate, or maintain speed.

One of the hardest things on an engine and gearbox is to try to accelerate with the car in too high a gear. The car will feel sluggish, because the engine isn't revving high enough to use the gear ratio of the that gear. In that case, shift down a gear before accelerating.

My biggest problem learning to drive manual was smoothly starting off up a hill from a stop. Go out and practice that one lots and lots when there's no traffic around. Just keep starting and stopping and starting and stopping, until you can smoothly go from brake to gas and smoothly letting out the clutch without jerking or stalling or over-revving the engine and slipping the clutch. Maybe other people are more coordinated than I am, but I had a particularly bad experience on a hill when I was first learning to drive a manual, and it almost stopped me from driving manual transmissions ever again.

Daniel is also correct that your shifts will be relatively quick, as opposed to long, slow shifts and slipping the clutch out to engage the gear. As you get better, the clutch will go in and out quickly, and believe it or not - you'll shift without even thinking about it. It will just become part of driving the car. That's why I can answer questions better than explain how. It's so natural, that I don't think about shifting at all anymore.

Good Luck !
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Old 03-29-2002, 05:11 PM   #4
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

thanks for the tips guys [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] yeah the hill thing kills me sometimes... i usually end up peeling out cause i am so afraid of rolling back into the car behind me [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] i have been driving stick for a little more than a month now, and i am surprised at how easy it can be. but there are a lot of times that i really wish i still had an auto. heavy stop and go traffic is a pain sometimes since i am still new to this world. but i am glad i made the switch [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] it makes driving a little more interactive and exciting [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] thanks again for the tips...
321GoRacing-i'll keep you in mind if i come up with any more stick questions [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] thanks again
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Old 03-29-2002, 06:32 PM   #5
claypoolio
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

try this, while driving keep your foot on the gas and depress the clutch. The more you practice the better you'll get this ,is good if your on the track [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 03-29-2002, 10:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by claypoolio:
try this, while driving keep your foot on the gas and depress the clutch. The more you practice the better you'll get this ,is good if your on the track [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Like power shifting? That's not exactly very good on the car... Unless you are talking about rev matching and double clutching?
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Old 03-29-2002, 11:13 PM   #7
speedkills
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Default Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

i am new to the whole manual driving thing, so i was wondering about shifting and stuff... i have read on here how people shift anywhere between 5k and 6.5k... but my question is how long do you keep the rpm's at your max shifting rpm before you shift? do you shift as soon as you hit your desired rpm or do you hold it there for a bit? this is probably a dumb question, but as i said, i am new to manual driving.... thanks for any help

[size="1"][ 12-02-2002, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: MichaelXi ][/size]
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Old 12-02-2002, 07:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Bump.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
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Old 12-02-2002, 10:16 PM   #9
DirtyFocusZX3
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

What exactly is double clutching? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
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Old 12-02-2002, 11:51 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Double clutching is:
1. press in the clutch
2. Move shifter from gear to neutral
3. release clutch
4. depress clutch
5. Move shifter to desired gear
6. relese clutch

It was needed (as still is) in old transmissions that didn't have syncros to match the rpm's.

What you want to learn to do for racing is the Heel/Toe shift. Blipping the throttle while down shifting so that it won't upset the balance of the car while turning.

[size="1"][ 12-03-2002, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: 51t ][/size]
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Old 12-03-2002, 07:17 PM   #11
DirtyFocusZX3
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Ah now i see. I do something like this with my mom's f-250 when shifting into reverse. I make sure the truck is stopped completely before shifting out of 1st to reverse or else it will grind.
I have been practicing my heel-toeing and am getting to where i can do it quite well for slower stops. [img]graemlins/thumbup.gif[/img]
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Old 12-03-2002, 07:25 PM   #12
Bantha Fodder
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Quote:
Originally posted by speedkills:
i usually end up peeling out cause i am so afraid of rolling back into the car behind me
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you find yourself in a particular hairy situation, you can always pull the handbrake to keep yourself from rolling back while your right foot is making the transition from brake to throttle.
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:43 PM   #13
liketobike4321
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Quote:
Double clutching is:
1. press in the clutch
2. Move shifter from gear to neutral
3. release clutch
4. depress clutch
5. Move shifter to desired gear
6. relese clutch

It was needed (as still is) in old transmissions that didn't have syncros to match the rpm's.

What you want to learn to do for racing is the Heel/Toe shift. Blipping the throttle while down shifting so that it won't upset the balance of the car while turning.

&lt;small&gt;[ 12-03-2002, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: 51t ]&lt;/small&gt;


i always thought there was a blip throtle in between 3 and 4?
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Old 06-28-2005, 02:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

there is

Last edited by MichaelXi : 12-05-2005 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 12-05-2005, 08:39 PM   #15
MichaelXi
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

I don't know what happened to the very first post of this thread in the forum move, but the answers make the point.
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Old 12-06-2005, 07:02 PM   #16
Z63R
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by liketobike4321
i always thought there was a blip throtle in between 3 and 4?


No.

Blipping the gas is for downshifting. You raise the RPM for the next lower gear while double-clutching.

The best way to learn this is to practice in a car that has worn or broken sychros.
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Old 12-07-2005, 08:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: Vehicle Dynamics...Another shifting Question ?

but why put up with worn synchros? LOL
Double clutching was done up and down in old non synchroed transmissions. I had a '64 Sprite- non synchroed 1st gear.
Don't use it (double clutch) in modern cars or even the Formula Ford I had with a Hewland gearbox.
If you can find the old Skip Barber GOING FASTER VHS/DVD it has a good sequence on double clutching.
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Last edited by rheacer : 12-07-2005 at 08:58 AM.
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