Vehicle Dynamics: Axle Nut Upgrades - Focaljet

**MIster2** · 05-02-2005, 09:29 AM

Does anyone have or know where I can find upgraded axle nuts for the focus? The "basically one time" use smashed together washers acting as a nut needs to go. Replacing wheel bearings a few times a year is understandable, but also replacing these washerNut POSs each time has to go. Plus I don't trust them and think much of the wheel bearings short life is do to these being weak enough to allow play under loads and increase wear.

Or does anyone know what thread and pitch they are and I'll have to do some leg work.

I'm about to replace all four again before a May 21/22 Event and would prefer to put some proper solid one piece Nuts on the axles finally.

**garyk** · 05-02-2005, 09:49 AM

what we have found is the upgraded ones work well if torqued before each session. let the wheels cool down and torque the heck out of them. in about 30 track days last year, no hub failures (finally).

**MIster2** · 05-02-2005, 10:35 AM

I haven't had any hub failure problems, just lots of wheel bearings going to quickly.

What is an upgraded one? Where do you get it? Is it a solid proper nut, or still some smashed washers? those smashed washers are just asking for problems on the road course.

**garyk** · 05-02-2005, 10:44 AM

the upgraded on is a solid nut...and we change spindles out after 3 to 4 races..pretty standard stuff...freshen em up with new bearings...

**MIster2** · 05-02-2005, 10:53 AM

Where can I get this solid axle nut?

**garyk** · 05-02-2005, 10:54 AM

ford dealer...i'll post part # tomorrow

**BUR_ZX3** · 05-02-2005, 11:13 AM

Dean Martin told us that the key to wheel bearing failure prevention is to check the torque on the bolt every day before racing. (Seems like it would be basic knowledge)

**garyk** · 05-02-2005, 11:15 AM

not just every race day...between every session on track

**MIster2** · 05-02-2005, 11:21 AM

I keep those things torque checked nearly every other day, seriously, but those crappy PressedWasherNuts can't handle 30+ min sessions. So even checking them inbetween sessions, It's not holding and wearing prematurely from long sessions! Plus since they only say you can use those nuts 4 times ( in reality Once, sort of, still don't really last the first time ), a solid nut is a just *REQUIRED* for track usage. The wear is one thing but you feel the car getting sloppy towards the end of long sessions, which let you know the washers are backing off. Hit em with the impact and voila car's is tight again.

I think this may be the best upgrade to the car if they'll just stay snug!

Does anyone have a part number for the solid nut at this point? So far, dealerships can't locate an upgrade part, just the $10 front and $8 rear POS WasherNuts.

**thetable** · 05-02-2005, 12:48 PM

If they are the same thread as the nuts from my honda, you might never have to tighten them again... Then again you have to take them off with a big impact wrench, a torch, and an angle grinder...

**teamDFL** · 05-02-2005, 01:03 PM

My solution was to take the angle grinder to the CV snout to create a grove parallel to the splines. Then, using what I believe is the hub nut from a Miata, lock in the nut mechanically by bending down the collar that it has. Torque to yield is not suitable for this application IMO and I prefer the mechanical lock. FWIW, the Ford RallyeSport Focus build manual specifies this method also.

Furthermore, the nut I am using has a larger flange on the inboard side which should theoretically allow for better distribution of the torque load from hub to nut. Of course, that might mean nothing at all and the whole advantage could be from the mechanical lock and lack of torque loss.

**P-51** · 05-02-2005, 05:08 PM

He's alive!!!

**teamDFL** · 05-02-2005, 09:09 PM

Quote:

He's alive!!!

Reports of my demise have been greatly exagerated.

More tech on having better, stronger, longer lasting nuts:
<ul type="square">[*]The thread pitch is M22-1.5. [*]The nut I use is from the rear of an NB Miata and the front of most every 1990's FWD Mazda. This includes the Millenia - a car that is much heavier and more powerful than the average Focus so I am confident this fastener is up to the job.[*]If you have Ford connections (Gary), just get one from a Probe.[*]If you have aftermarket connections, it is a Dorman 615-097. Activant, WrenchHead, et al can interchange for you from there if you carry another line.[*]If you have a hub or bearing to replace and are removing an original nut, you must chase the CV snout threads. If the bearing failed due to a weakened nut, it will chew up your threads when you remove it. Fortunately, an M22-1.5 thread chasing die is easy to find as it is a common pitch for air conditioning hose ends and most automotive tool places will have that die in the A/C service section. [*]Support the CV snout by putting the inboard, un-threaded portion on a jack stand (curved axle type saddle is best) and C-clamping them together. Then, and only then, take an angle grinder turned sideways and cut a nice slice into the threads. Look at a Honda or Mazda to see what size and depth groove you need. Needless to say, post grinder etiquette involves the thread chasing die.[*]When bending down the locking collar, you want to use a rounded end punch. Do not use a screwdriver or pointed punch as they can cut through the collar and render it both less effective and more difficult to remove.[/list]You too can have reliable nuts that are the envy of other track going Focus owners. Furthermore, you will find that your nuts are excellent conversation starters and a nice ice-breaker for a discussion about general on-track durability topics.

**Auto-X-ZTS** · 05-02-2005, 09:29 PM

welcome back, stranger

**djsilver** · 05-04-2005, 02:54 PM

I did a little research and came up with a list of cars/trucks that use M22x1.5 flanged spindle nuts (also called stake nuts);
95-98 Ford Explorer/Mountaineer 4x4
80-90 Civic
88-92 Probe/MX-6/626
Volvo 850's
92-93 Toyota FWD/ Geo Prizm
77-88 Audi 5000, 89-91 Saab 9000 (self-locking)

The only ones I've been able to put my hands on are the ones for the Probe and the Civic. The Probe nut has a nice large flange. The self-locking one sounds interesting but it doesn't have a flange in the illustration I found.

Autozone carries the Probe and Civic nuts but only keep one in stock.

www.interparts.com makes all those listed but only sell to jobbers, so if you want them you'll have to call them and find a jobber in your area. Here's their list; http://www.interparts.com/pdf/SpindleNut.pdf

**MIster2** · 05-04-2005, 03:59 PM

Thanks! Great Info here! I'll try to pick up a pair on the way home tonight.

Does anyone have the thread pitch for the rear axle nuts? Having to adjust the rear drum brakes frequently means those nuts get trashed quickly as well..

ahh the joys of tracking a car created with too much bean counter influence..

**thetable** · 05-04-2005, 05:23 PM

You want to use the back four bolts on the drums to do maintenance there.

**Penguini66** · 05-05-2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

He's alive!!!

Reports of my demise have been greatly exagerated.

Welcome back Rich!!!!!!!

**typ44q** · 05-05-2005, 02:47 PM

How about just using the self locking type that audi and vw uses? I never had a problem with them on my audi and that car was about 3K lbs and always ran R comp tires (so there was LOTS of force on that nut and hub) I never had a problem with them or ever even heard of anyone else having that problem.
one person commented that after they would loosen he would hit it with an impact gun and it would be good again but then eventually loosen. could part of the problem be that the proper torque spec was not reached with the gun? most air tools have too many variables to trust (low pressure, bad/improperly adjusted regulator, not enough/too much oil, etc)

Mike

**MIster2** · 05-05-2005, 04:29 PM

I'm going to try to swap these out for solid piece locking nuts. I was hitting them with a Impact becuase even properly torquing them didn't help keep em on tight, so it has just become hitting with an estimated additonal 10-20% torque to hold em on will help till the end of a session.

But hopefully real nuts, not smashed washers should put this in the past.

**typ44q** · 05-05-2005, 09:16 PM

which ones are you going to go with? I have one of the audi ones which is a self locking but it does not have the large base/washer of the oem ford one.

Mike

**MIster2** · 05-09-2005, 09:54 AM

I couldn't locate any!! Argh! I did find at my friends shop a better solid axle nut. replacing the front left wheel bearing this time the hub did get chewed up, must be from this thread, heh. so front left has new bearing and hub with solid nut. I also chased the nut and the spindle so threads were B.E.A.YUUtiful. couldn't locate a second hub and still need to do the right side this week. I suspect the right hub got chewed this time around as well.

I hope to find a pair of better nuts with locking tabs, so I can groove the spindle and lock em down. I think this should ensure the bearings last a much longer time, maybe an entire year, and I don't have to constantly re torque em.

Reliability mods are the Best!

**thetable** · 05-09-2005, 10:18 AM

Make a trip to the Honda dealership. They are cheap and plentiful.

**typ44q** · 05-09-2005, 12:09 PM

did you use an additional washer under the nut? the oem has a very large washer attached to it and was wondering what to do about that. I guess just a regular high grade washer will work?

Mike

**MIster2** · 05-09-2005, 12:18 PM

I used the same washer from the original smashed together piece, had to center in manually with a screw driver while putting it on, then torqued it down. I think I might have found 2 99+ Mazda Miata axle nuts, going to try to pick them up at lunch and replace em tonight. I might even have time to notch the axle and pinch it down!

05-02-2005, 09:29 AM	#1
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Vehicle Dynamics: Axle Nut Upgrades Does anyone have or know where I can find upgraded axle nuts for the focus? The "basically one time" use smashed together washers acting as a nut needs to go. Replacing wheel bearings a few times a year is understandable, but also replacing these washerNut POSs each time has to go. Plus I don't trust them and think much of the wheel bearings short life is do to these being weak enough to allow play under loads and increase wear. Or does anyone know what thread and pitch they are and I'll have to do some leg work. I'm about to replace all four again before a May 21/22 Event and would prefer to put some proper solid one piece Nuts on the axles finally.

05-02-2005, 09:49 AM	#2
garyk The beer up here is the best! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: tied to the apex of turn 10 Posts: 4,466	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades what we have found is the upgraded ones work well if torqued before each session. let the wheels cool down and torque the heck out of them. in about 30 track days last year, no hub failures (finally).

05-02-2005, 10:35 AM	#3
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades I haven't had any hub failure problems, just lots of wheel bearings going to quickly. What is an upgraded one? Where do you get it? Is it a solid proper nut, or still some smashed washers? those smashed washers are just asking for problems on the road course.

05-02-2005, 10:44 AM	#4
garyk The beer up here is the best! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: tied to the apex of turn 10 Posts: 4,466	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades the upgraded on is a solid nut...and we change spindles out after 3 to 4 races..pretty standard stuff...freshen em up with new bearings...

05-02-2005, 10:53 AM	#5
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades Where can I get this solid axle nut?

05-02-2005, 10:54 AM	#6
garyk The beer up here is the best! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: tied to the apex of turn 10 Posts: 4,466	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades ford dealer...i'll post part # tomorrow

05-02-2005, 11:13 AM	#7
BUR_ZX3 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: On the Set of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation Posts: 35,091	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades Dean Martin told us that the key to wheel bearing failure prevention is to check the torque on the bolt every day before racing. (Seems like it would be basic knowledge)

05-02-2005, 11:15 AM	#8
garyk The beer up here is the best! Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: tied to the apex of turn 10 Posts: 4,466	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades not just every race day...between every session on track

05-02-2005, 11:21 AM	#9
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades I keep those things torque checked nearly every other day, seriously, but those crappy PressedWasherNuts can't handle 30+ min sessions. So even checking them inbetween sessions, It's not holding and wearing prematurely from long sessions! Plus since they only say you can use those nuts 4 times ( in reality Once, sort of, still don't really last the first time ), a solid nut is a just REQUIRED for track usage. The wear is one thing but you feel the car getting sloppy towards the end of long sessions, which let you know the washers are backing off. Hit em with the impact and voila car's is tight again. I think this may be the best upgrade to the car if they'll just stay snug! Does anyone have a part number for the solid nut at this point? So far, dealerships can't locate an upgrade part, just the $10 front and $8 rear POS WasherNuts.

05-02-2005, 12:48 PM	#10
thetable Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 3,179	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades If they are the same thread as the nuts from my honda, you might never have to tighten them again... Then again you have to take them off with a big impact wrench, a torch, and an angle grinder...

05-02-2005, 01:03 PM	#11
teamDFL Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Apex, NC, USA Posts: 4,629	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades My solution was to take the angle grinder to the CV snout to create a grove parallel to the splines. Then, using what I believe is the hub nut from a Miata, lock in the nut mechanically by bending down the collar that it has. Torque to yield is not suitable for this application IMO and I prefer the mechanical lock. FWIW, the Ford RallyeSport Focus build manual specifies this method also. Furthermore, the nut I am using has a larger flange on the inboard side which should theoretically allow for better distribution of the torque load from hub to nut. Of course, that might mean nothing at all and the whole advantage could be from the mechanical lock and lack of torque loss.

05-02-2005, 05:08 PM	#12
P-51 [FJ] Addict Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Brighton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 14,863	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades He's alive!!!

05-02-2005, 09:29 PM	#14
Auto-X-ZTS Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: East Troy (Milwaukee), WI Posts: 3,484	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades welcome back, stranger

05-04-2005, 02:54 PM	#15
djsilver TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 459	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades I did a little research and came up with a list of cars/trucks that use M22x1.5 flanged spindle nuts (also called stake nuts); 95-98 Ford Explorer/Mountaineer 4x4 80-90 Civic 88-92 Probe/MX-6/626 Volvo 850's 92-93 Toyota FWD/ Geo Prizm 77-88 Audi 5000, 89-91 Saab 9000 (self-locking) The only ones I've been able to put my hands on are the ones for the Probe and the Civic. The Probe nut has a nice large flange. The self-locking one sounds interesting but it doesn't have a flange in the illustration I found. Autozone carries the Probe and Civic nuts but only keep one in stock. www.interparts.com makes all those listed but only sell to jobbers, so if you want them you'll have to call them and find a jobber in your area. Here's their list; http://www.interparts.com/pdf/SpindleNut.pdf

05-04-2005, 03:59 PM	#16
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades Thanks! Great Info here! I'll try to pick up a pair on the way home tonight. Does anyone have the thread pitch for the rear axle nuts? Having to adjust the rear drum brakes frequently means those nuts get trashed quickly as well.. ahh the joys of tracking a car created with too much bean counter influence..

05-04-2005, 05:23 PM	#17
thetable Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 3,179	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades You want to use the back four bolts on the drums to do maintenance there.

05-05-2005, 02:47 PM	#19
typ44q TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 589	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades How about just using the self locking type that audi and vw uses? I never had a problem with them on my audi and that car was about 3K lbs and always ran R comp tires (so there was LOTS of force on that nut and hub) I never had a problem with them or ever even heard of anyone else having that problem. one person commented that after they would loosen he would hit it with an impact gun and it would be good again but then eventually loosen. could part of the problem be that the proper torque spec was not reached with the gun? most air tools have too many variables to trust (low pressure, bad/improperly adjusted regulator, not enough/too much oil, etc) Mike

05-05-2005, 04:29 PM	#20
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades I'm going to try to swap these out for solid piece locking nuts. I was hitting them with a Impact becuase even properly torquing them didn't help keep em on tight, so it has just become hitting with an estimated additonal 10-20% torque to hold em on will help till the end of a session. But hopefully real nuts, not smashed washers should put this in the past.

05-05-2005, 09:16 PM	#21
typ44q TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 589	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades which ones are you going to go with? I have one of the audi ones which is a self locking but it does not have the large base/washer of the oem ford one. Mike

05-09-2005, 09:54 AM	#22
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades I couldn't locate any!! Argh! I did find at my friends shop a better solid axle nut. replacing the front left wheel bearing this time the hub did get chewed up, must be from this thread, heh. so front left has new bearing and hub with solid nut. I also chased the nut and the spindle so threads were B.E.A.YUUtiful. couldn't locate a second hub and still need to do the right side this week. I suspect the right hub got chewed this time around as well. I hope to find a pair of better nuts with locking tabs, so I can groove the spindle and lock em down. I think this should ensure the bearings last a much longer time, maybe an entire year, and I don't have to constantly re torque em. Reliability mods are the Best!

05-09-2005, 10:18 AM	#23
thetable Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 3,179	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades Make a trip to the Honda dealership. They are cheap and plentiful.

05-09-2005, 12:09 PM	#24
typ44q TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Columbia SC Posts: 589	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades did you use an additional washer under the nut? the oem has a very large washer attached to it and was wondering what to do about that. I guess just a regular high grade washer will work? Mike

05-09-2005, 12:18 PM	#25
MIster2 TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Arlington, TX USA Posts: 192	Re: Axle Nut Upgrades I used the same washer from the original smashed together piece, had to center in manually with a screw driver while putting it on, then torqued it down. I think I might have found 2 99+ Mazda Miata axle nuts, going to try to pick them up at lunch and replace em tonight. I might even have time to notch the axle and pinch it down!

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