brake cooling ducts

[mysvtftoy]

I wasn't really sure where to post these, but figured you folks might appreciate them. These are adapted from some cooling ducts used on Porsches. They pretty much can be fitted to any car that will accommodate them. The shop I work with did have to fab some bracketry to attach the thing to the control arm. It does scrape/rub the rotor when turned to the limit and backing, but that will only last so long. Heh. They do provide a ton of cool air right to the rotor.




With the XP8s, I've been running into a problem where I seem to be losing braking effect as I get late into a lapping session. I reckon that's due to excessive heat. I don't encounter fade, so much as I have to apply A LOT of force to get the same braking effect I had been getting when going into a threshold braking situation. It's a little unnerving how much it would change from minute 10 to minute 30 of a session. I still had brakes, but it just required real force on the pedal to get it. Anyway, I'm very interested to see how this works. I've heard good things about these from M3 and Viper owners with the same adaptation. ::fingers crossed::


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Attachment

Colin welded two small "brackets" onto the control arm to which the Porsche diverter pieces are bolted. The attachment is very stout. Removal of the diverters is trivial and, although the brackets cannot be removed, they do not obstruct movement of anything so can be left in place with the diverter taken out.

Top view...




Rear view...




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Notes from April 3, 2007 test at Portland International:

Conditions: Cool and dry
Event: Lotus of Portland Lapping Day
Group: Intermediate
Track Setup: Chicane in place
Car: 2004 PW SC Focus Focus SVT
Brakes: SVT Focus stock calipers with Carbotech XP8 pads (about 70 percent remaining to start); same pads as prior track day with no cooling ducts installed.

This was a truly awesome track day with only 9 cars in my run group on a track that can typically accommodate 25 to 30 lappers at club event.

I was able to get many open laps in. This was my second day out with the car's new power setup. It was a lot of fun, but I'm still getting used to it.

As for the cooling deflectors, here are my notes:

* In general, they made a substational improvement late in sessions under threshold braking. I NEVER lost feeling in the brakes. This is contrast to my March 17 track day at Pacific Raceways where I was getting some pretty significant heat-related brake fade (no loss of feel, but loss of braking effect).

* I did notice at the very end of (30 minute) sessions that I needed to press with more force, but I never lost the sense of the car stopping when asked. At the prior track day (before the cooling deflectors), I was getting a sense of sliding on the pads with substantially reduced stopping effect. In contrast to that, the setup with the deflectors provided definite bite and stopping power throughout the four sessions.

There are probably some spots on the track where I brake harder than necessary (in particular at PIR that would be the entry into T10). Nonetheless I was completely happy with the net effect. I will be upgrading to XP10s later in the spring which should also help.

[ZX3autoxtasy]

I was thinking of running something from my grill, like the black home AC hose they sell at Lowe's.


Great post, I may look into something like that.

[sleeperlove]

you dont expect any problems with un even cooling on that inner side of the rotor? thats the only thing that would worry me

[Reza]

those are great are they intrested in making more?

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by sleeperlove

you dont expect any problems with un even cooling on that inner side of the rotor? thats the only thing that would worry me

I had not thought of that, but the Porsches have the same setup, so, I don't know, I guess we'll see. My stock original rotors cracked after three seasons of open lapping and no ducting. We'll see how these hold up with this setup. I don't *think* the Porsches have an outer duct and they don't seem to have any issues. I reckon anything to get cool air is going to help.

Originally Posted by focus_wrc

those are great are they intrested in making more?

Could be. I'll ask. Cost will mostly be the fabbing of bracketry to attach and maybe some cutting of the piece to fit it in there.

[brads03zx3]

Originally Posted by mysvtftoy

I don't encounter fade, so much as I have to apply A LOT of force to get the same braking effect I had been getting when going into a threshold braking situation.

Um...that IS fade. I don't know much about the XP8 so I don't know if I can help you much. Seems like you are on the right track though. How much pad material do you have left? How worn are your rotors? It looks like you have a decent groove in them from the pic. My stock rotors are pretty thin, so I replaced them with brembo blanks for my last track day. The more mass in that rotor, the more heat they can absorb, which is really good while the brakes are being applied.

What other pads have you tried? I used the Hawk HP+ which worked well for my style, but if you are experiencing fade, maybe try the Hawk Blue pad.

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

Um...that IS fade. I don't know much about the XP8 so I don't know if I can help you much. Seems like you are on the right track though. How much pad material do you have left? How worn are your rotors? It looks like you have a decent groove in them from the pic. My stock rotors are pretty thin, so I replaced them with brembo blanks for my last track day. The more mass in that rotor, the more heat they can absorb, which is really good while the brakes are being applied.

What other pads have you tried? I used the Hawk HP+ which worked well for my style, but if you are experiencing fade, maybe try the Hawk Blue pad.

Ok. So, fade it is. I guess I always thought of fade as mushy pedal brake fluid fade, but I was wrong about that limited definition. This is definitely more the fade of overheated friction bits. Castrol SRF holds up, brake feel is fine, just OMG, I'm going to put my foot through the floor!

Anyway, I have newly installed Ford SVT stock OEM rotors (original ones cracked last season after about 30 track days). Pads are about 75 to 80 percent left remaining after 3 track days (2 at the end of last year and 1 so far this year). I've got some XP10s sitting in the garage which will go on once these XP8s hit about 50 percent.

[BadIdea]

I had problems with my xp8's but only after there was <25% material left. Since you only track this car you really should be running the 10's.

Maybe you're braking too much?

I think the evo's have a similar setup. It's one thing I'd like to get around to this year, and anything that reduces temps and extends life is a good thing.

[Silonius]

Originally Posted by BadIdea

Maybe you're braking too much?

Bwahaha! Aren't we all?

I've heard that brake ducting is a must for any Focus that is tracked. The horror stories I've heard on here about cooking wheel bearings have inspired me to get some ducting before I get out on the track.

ZX3auto, if you rig up something with that A/C ducting, could you take some pics? I'm thinking that is going to be a pretty cheap way to get some extra air onto the rotors, assuming you can get it our of the way of all the suspension.

Let us know how it works mysvtftoy!

[thefrush]

Interesting design. I think I'll stick with my tube-style ducts though.

[Reza]

that look like how the evo does it too.

[wrcRS]

Cool looking design. I am going to come up with some ducting for my ZX3. I cooked a wheel bearing last year at a high speed autoX.

[WebXtremes]

Those are quite interesting. Let us know how it goes. I haven't experienced fade yet with the Hawk Blue pads that I switched over to. However, the track days haven't been that warm either.

[Reza]

Originally Posted by mysvtftoy

Could be. I'll ask. Cost will mostly be the fabbing of bracketry to attach and maybe some cutting of the piece to fit it in there.

Can you ask please i am really interested in getting one.

[Ted7rns]

I could be interested as well.

[ZX3autoxtasy]

Originally Posted by thefrush

Interesting design. I think I'll stick with my tube-style ducts though.

Is there a thread of yours or can you post a pic?

[ZX3autoxtasy]

Originally Posted by Silonius

Bwahaha! Aren't we all?

I've heard that brake ducting is a must for any Focus that is tracked. The horror stories I've heard on here about cooking wheel bearings have inspired me to get some ducting before I get out on the track.

ZX3auto, if you rig up something with that A/C ducting, could you take some pics? I'm thinking that is going to be a pretty cheap way to get some extra air onto the rotors, assuming you can get it our of the way of all the suspension.

Let us know how it works mysvtftoy!

Yea man, definitely. It'll be a bit though, you know how school is . One more month....(crosses fingers)

[Reza]

evo cooling duct

[mysvtftoy]

I added a couple of snapshots to the original post from my lunchtime wheel swap. Shop owner Colin Cantrell says he'd definitely do the piece for others. He'll keep the price relatively low. Basically consists of:

* Slightly modified Porsche cooling fins
* Attachment bracketry and bolts

My version is welded to the control arm. Colin has discussed making a "clamp-on version" but I think welding it on is going to be a much more stable solution with no real downside.

Before he can sell it here though, I need to contact Ron about grassroots sponsorship.

This should work with any Focus since, according to Steve Powell:

"All Foci use the same front lower control arms, only the steering knuckles are different."

This attaches only to the control arm.

I'll keep you posted. PM me if you would like to contact Colin directly.

[Reza]

I am really intrested in buying a set if the price is not super high. put me on the list.

Thanks.

[mysvtftoy]

Info regarding getting these for your car...

Shop: Cantrell Motorsports
Contact: Colin Cantrell
email: colincantrell@msn.com
URL: www.cantrellmotorsport.com
Location: Kirkland, WA

While I am prohibited from providing pricing specifics, I can tell you this much:

Kit includes...
* 2 slightly modified Porsche brake cooling diverter fins (~$25 each retail)
* 4 steel mounting brackets; to be welded to control arm (small cost)
* 4 sets of bolts/nuts/washers (more small cost)

Installation requires...
* Prepping surface at weld point locations
* Welding and painting
* Bolt it up and you're done

If you're interested, please contact Colin directly for specifics. The althernative is that you could fab these up yourself, but I suspect he'll offer them at a pretty cheap price. The main cost for me was the attrachment.

I'm hoping to get out to the track Tuesday in Portland with the Lotus kids to see if they help. When a fan-type blower was dropped in front of the stationary car, a ton of air was pumped to the rotor. Should work great at the track. Once I get a chance to run the car up, I'll post the buttdyno results.

[mysvtftoy]

Notes moved; appended to original posting.

[Egz]

My only other concern is for cars that street as well. Granted I should be needing threshold braking on the street, but brakes always cold doesn't sound healthy. Or am I thinking wrong?

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by Egz

My only other concern is for cars that street as well. Granted I should be needing threshold braking on the street, but brakes always cold doesn't sound healthy. Or am I thinking wrong?

Maybe so; I suspect it would depend on the pads a bit. Stock pads are probably less affected; race pads more.

[BadIdea]

I'm sort of curious about drag and lift.