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Old 08-08-2008, 10:55 AM   #1
Auto-X-ZTS
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Default Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

Below is a draft of a letter that I'd like to send to the SEB regarding allowing the removal of fog/driving lights on all cars in SOLO2. Would anyone here who is an SCCA member, especially anyone who has broken a foglight in a car/cone collision, be willing to support this by also writing thier own letter ( SEB @SCCA.com ); form letters are ineffective. If so please post a thought or two. Also, if you think I am nuts, post why. I'd like to garner some support, and then have a barrage of emails sent to the SEB at roughly the same time...say next week or so.


Dear Members of the SEB:
In March I submitted a proposal that was submitted as item 08-101. It was noted in the June Fastrack that the proposal was “Not Recommended”. Based on a recent incident that I was involved with, I would request that this topic be revisited and reviewed on a more broad scope.

My original intent was to submit this request as primarily a C&C issue that was paired with the bodykit rule already in place for ST. Unfortunately, I think that I vastly underplayed the potential safety aspect of this concern. On 8/3 at an event in Milwaukee I managed to run over a 3-cone wall on a high-speed section of the course. The impact dislodged one of my foglights and by one account “it flew 40 feet in the air”. My understanding is that it also made a bit of a mess when it ‘landed’.

It seems that most fog/driving lights are attached by flimsy brackets or plastic housings that are often just snapped in place versus having a fastener, like bolts or screws, to secure them to the car. This can allow for the light to easily be dislodged in a car/cone colision. In the big picture, spending $45.00 and perhaps an hour of my time to repair my car’s flimsy light is nothing compared to having to worry about a projectile shooting out of the front of my car at 55mph…and the possibility of that projectile hitting a corner worker or spectator…not to mention that debris on course could be missed and cause damage to another competitor’s vehicle or tires. Now I completely understand there is ‘an assumption of risk’ involved with our sport—but it is also prudent to attempt to mitigate the risk as best possible.

I think that this is an issue that now goes beyond ST and should be considered for Stock class cars as well. In my opinion this should fall under the Stock C&C rule (13.2.A), and a driver should be allowed the latitude to remove the OE fog/driving lights to save from exposure to (additional) damage on his/her vehicle in a car/cone collision. In doing so, the risk to other competitors (as course workers), spectators and other vehicles is mitigated. Furthermore, I can certainly understand that additional clarification be worded into the rules to require the openings left by vacated lights not be used in a way that another performance advantage may be gained (e.g. ducting). This rule would benefit those cars/drivers that have poorly designed lights (by autocross standards); cars that may actually have well-designed lights would not be forced to remove them, but because lights typically weigh very little, would not be at a material disadvantage from additional weight.

I have attached my original correspondence below and would greatly appreciate the SEB reconsidering this matter by more heavily weighing the safety aspect that it presents.

I would like to take an opportunity to discuss what I see as a contradiction in ST rule 14.2.F where it is stated: "Standard parts may not be removed except for the substitution of spoilers, rear wings, bumper covers and valances". It also states "addition of spoilers, splitters, body kits, rear wings and non-functional scoops/vents is allowed...body kits are limited to bumper covers, valences, side skirts and fender flares."

My car has “standard” fog lights. They are constructed and attached in such a way that they are prone to breaking, and as such I would rather remove them than to have to replace them at $45.00 each. I know this to be the case on other cars as well. On top of being a financial nuisance, when lights break, whether it be a shattered lens, or a dislodged housing it is possible that the result could pose an on-course hazard in the form of broken glass or flying debris.

I would ask the SEB to consider to amend the rules to allow the removal or replacement of non-DOT mandated secondary (e.g. Fog/Driving) “standard” lighting. Because we are allowed to already use aftermarket body kits, I believe this request to be within the spirit of the rule already in place. The contradiction in the rules occurs is that many body kits do not have a provision for OE fog or driving lights, and as such are actually illegal to use in ST (we cannot make an illegal modification which is the removal of a “standard” part to facilitate a legal modification, that being the substitution of a listed body part). Because a typical fog light weighs perhaps a pound or two, I do not see this as offering any material performance gain through weight loss.


I appreciate the consideration in this matter.

Erik Bacon
MKE Region 205933
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:33 AM   #2
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

I didn't think about the fact that was illegal. I don't run fog lights oops

The tabs are broken on mine
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

I'm missing my passenger side fog light, I tried restoring it and never put it back on... Woops.
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:12 PM   #4
Auto-X-ZTS
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

It's a non-issue at local events; at Divisional and National levels, however...it'd be prudent to have the car to the letter of the rules, especially if you'll be in contention for a trophy.

Xi, Lorin, Reza, Ataru, Jeff etc...would ya'll be in and help with a letter?
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Old 08-08-2008, 05:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

Yeah, I'll help you out.

This reminds me of a similar issue. I disintigrated my belt guard on a cone at a National Tour. Technically the car was illegal for all runs after that, and I had to make sure I had one ordered ASAP afterward.

I guess we have to ask ourselves where to draw the line though.... I'd probably only include fog lights.
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Old 08-08-2008, 08:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

i'd back that rule up.
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

Maybe you guys should stop hitting cones...

*runs and hides*



But really if I were a member I would back that up. Seems silly that you have to keep them on. Its not like there is any appreciable advantage from removing them, unless its a nighttime autocross.
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Old 08-08-2008, 11:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

If you don't hit a few cones now and then, you're just not going fast enough. I don't think I've hit three or four all year...and then this incident.
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Old 08-09-2008, 08:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

It seems to make sense to me... and I removed my fogs so it could only help me.
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Old 08-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #10
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

SCCA Club racing makes the Showroom Stock guys take off there fog lights and then tape over the opening.
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Old 08-10-2008, 04:29 AM   #11
ladybug04
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

well, wouldnt it be covered under the update/ backdate/ same line rules, i understand that SVTs only come with fogs, but regular foci have fogs as a trim option dont they? i mean my lx doesnt have fogs

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Old 08-10-2008, 10:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

No. There is no update/backdate in Stock or ST.

Look up the SCCA rules and see the definition of "Standard Part"...it may help clarify...
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #13
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

Letter Sent.

Those pledging support, please submit as well ASAP.

seb@scca.com
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

I would be all for the rule change, but alas, my letter would be disregarded, as I have been too broke to renew my membership lately.
I hope to get back in swing for next season, after I secure some decent employment.

Anyone who IS a Member should Definitely take a few minutes and compose something concise and proof-read, and submit it ASAP.
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Old 09-02-2008, 02:23 PM   #15
Auto-X-ZTS
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

Just checking to see that those who say they would...did. If not please fire off a note to the SEB. SEB@scca.com
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Old 09-03-2008, 02:03 PM   #16
John B
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Default Re: Looking for support to request a SOLO2 rules change

Letter under construction. Sorry I'm late.
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