Public Service Announcement - Re: Coilovers ("budget setups," in particular)

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

I don't mean any disrespect, but all that really shows is that some very fast cars/drivers happen to be using Ksports. That's about the only definitive conclusion that can be drawn with that information.

I'd be a bit more impressed if the same cars were then run with the same drivers on different suspension setups and then the times were compared and/or subjective ratings were assigned to the different setups by the drivers...

Furthermore, it concerns me that for all the time your company has been selling/marketing dampers, you haven't even had a shock dyno at your disposal...

Do you source your dampers from another firm?

It's a well known fact that we don't manufacture our product stateside. We have always had dyno at our manufacturing facility. About 9 months ago we expressed a new one to the factory to improve on our QC. Right now we have the same type dyno being put together for us at our own facility here in AZ. All Ksport components are built in the same location.

Whether or not you're impressed by the results, they are results. Our T/A driver has used many different brands of suspension over the years and ran his fastest times at FIR and PIR on our coilovers. If Tripoints assertion is true, our suspension should be so unstable that there is no way it could perform in a manner that would be able to turn the times it does am I wrong?

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by syntheticGT

I owned one set of K-sport coilovers.

I will never buy another product from them.

They were trash. The car rode like a covered wagon in a mine field, the perches were ridiculously hard to adjust, the spanner wrenches werent strong enough for the job, the top of the pillowball pivots rusted, one strut had to be rebuilt/replaced, and I could go on......

I have never been more unimpressed in my entire life with something automotive related. I dont care about brands...I love Rota wheels. But this took the cake for me. After the numerous different suspensions I have had on my cars...Ksport is the last on my list of likes.

Just one former owners opinion.

I'm sorry that your experience with our product wasn't satisfactory to you. Did you bring this to our attention and give us an opportunity to rectify the situation? Was your rep who handled your issues courteous and accomodating?

What should be noted, is that every company has to start somewhere. We take these issues as they come in. If it becomes a trend, we re-evaluate and re-engineer what needs to fixed.

We always appreciate the feed back both good and bad.

[ClintB1321]

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

I'll work on pics of Tage's suspension, and Oscars M3 is running Kontrol Pros NOT circuit pros, he's also running a custom rate that I advised against for the simple fact that the KP shocks aren't damped properly for those rates which is why Ivo is feeling what he is.

By no means am I saying it's best. I'm a realist, I've used the majority of the different coilovers on the market today. I know what our product is and what it isn't. Out of the options in the same price range, I believe it to be on top.

the M3 is on circuit pros...i saw it with my own two eyes. i know this because ivo asked me if i would be willing to pilot the car at the WSIR redline time attack in the case of him not being able to attend, so i went over the car head to toe with him and discussed setup....

im not saying that ksport should be considered poo because of the name, but what i AM trying to get across, primarily the FJ crowd thats interested in performance on a road course or auto x, that ksport should not be considered the best thing since sliced bread just because its shiney, has pillow ball upper mounts, and has a adjustment knob. HTP is putting your coilovers through the paces in auto x and road courses and im interested in they're feedback. IM just trying to defend whats already avalible for the focus thats proven on track and autox(koni, bilstein, H&R) because they're packaging is not nearly as flashy but in most cases are great in performance for their price.

[syntheticGT]

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

I'm sorry that your experience with our product wasn't satisfactory to you. Did you bring this to our attention and give us an opportunity to rectify the situation? Was your rep who handled your issues courteous and accomodating?

What should be noted, is that every company has to start somewhere. We take these issues as they come in. If it becomes a trend, we re-evaluate and re-engineer what needs to fixed.

We always appreciate the feed back both good and bad.

They rode so terribly that they were taken off and sold within 5000 miles. I could no longer take it. I dont mind stiff...but sloppy and bouncy aint my thang.

There are a few guys on here that I would trust with my mom's car when it comes to suspension...so when they say something better I will listen.

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by ClintB1321

the M3 is on circuit pros...i saw it with my own two eyes. i know this because ivo asked me if i would be willing to pilot the car at the WSIR redline time attack in the case of him not being able to attend, so i went over the car head to toe with him and discussed setup....

im not saying that ksport should be considered poo because of the name, but what i AM trying to get across, primarily the FJ crowd thats interested in performance on a road course or auto x, that ksport should not be considered the best thing since sliced bread just because its shiney, has pillow ball upper mounts, and has a adjustment knob. HTP is putting your coilovers through the paces in auto x and road courses and im interested in they're feedback. IM just trying to defend whats already avalible for the focus thats proven on track and autox(koni, bilstein, H&R) because they're packaging is not nearly as flashy but in most cases are great in performance for their price.

I'm sorry but you're mistaken. We haven't built a Circuit Pro kit for the E46 M3 yet. Our first kit will be made within the next few months as our time attack driver just bought an E46 M3 and will be using them on his car. Not only that but I set up Oscars sponsorship for SEMA last year, in other words I personally ordered every part for his car that is Ksport.

I agree that Ksport isn't the best thing since sliced bread. It's a great product for it's price and it has proven track results behind it. I appreciate what you're trying to do as well, if it seems otherwise I apologize as I too am an enthusiast.

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by syntheticGT

They rode so terribly that they were taken off and sold within 5000 miles. I could no longer take it. I dont mind stiff...but sloppy and bouncy aint my thang.

There are a few guys on here that I would trust with my mom's car when it comes to suspension...so when they say something better I will listen.

Fair enough.

[ClintB1321]

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

I'm sorry but you're mistaken. We haven't built a Circuit Pro kit for the E46 M3 yet. Our first kit will be made within the next few months as our time attack driver just bought an E46 M3 and will be using them on his car. Not only that but I set up Oscars sponsorship for SEMA last year, in other words I personally ordered every part for his car that is Ksport.

I agree that Ksport isn't the best thing since sliced bread. It's a great product for it's price and it has proven track results behind it. I appreciate what you're trying to do as well, if it seems otherwise I apologize as I too am an enthusiast.

this is what i saw on the M3, which is advertised as your circuit pro coilover...


no individual ride height and pre load adjustment, same color and design. THIS is what i saw on the car....

so does the M3 have circuit pro damper bodies with control pro valving and rates?

and then Horsepower freaks( who provided the turbo kit for oscar's car as you undoubtedly know) advertises on their site e46 M3 circuit pro coilovers for sale....

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by ClintB1321

this is what i saw on the M3, which is advertised as your circuit pro coilover...


no individual ride height and pre load adjustment, same color and design. THIS is what i saw on the car....

so does the M3 have circuit pro damper bodies with control pro valving and rates?

and then Horsepower freaks( who provided the turbo kit for oscar's car as you undoubtedly know) advertises on their site e46 M3 circuit pro coilovers for sale....

Again, you're mistaken. You must be misremembering. Oscar runs off the shelf KPs with the exception of the spring rates (12k front and standard 9K rears). If you read any magazine he's been published in, and there are plenty, they'll back it up. Why would I lie about it?

HPF has the CP's on their site for sale because it's an application we offer. We've never had one made for us. Unless he went straight to our factory to get them (which he can't) hes running the KP's.

The only CP's Oscar has ordered from us are for an 05 up STI and they were for Ivo. Again, I'm looking at his invoice right now.

[ClintB1321]

i know you wouldnt lie, im just going off what i saw, and what ever is on the car LOOKS like that. thats what im saying. maybe ill drive by renner next week and look again since i have to pick up some brake fluid from ivo anyway

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

It's funny to me that you treat that 'evidence' like it's a bible when in fact tripoint has never once recieved a brand new damper kit from Ksport. Not in the 5 years we've been in business. I wasn't employed here during that time, but I do have the ability to look up our customer history and they were never even a dealer. There was never any proof that the kit tested was new. Just their word. To me, with claims like this, there must be proof.

I'm not going to refute anything posted in tripoints results, to me they aren't valid.

Aside from that, we've had tremendous on track success. Our sales this year are higher than they ever have been. Our failure rate since our new shocks have been out is less than 2%. The majority of people who buy coilovers daily drive their cars, now do you honestly believe that in your trecks to work and the grocery store that your dampers must perform on the same level of industry leading dampers?

First of all, it was not my intention to present those links as if they are "the bible," as you put it. I think if you go back and re-read my first post you'll see that.

Regarding the Ksport-specific Mazda forum link, I don't think Jeff at Tri-Sport ever claimed to be a Ksport dealer. I wouldn't suspect that they ever were.
You're correct in you assertion that they don't provide proof that they were new. In the interest of fairness, I invite you to provide us with shock dyno plots of 4 dampers taken from one of your off-the-shelf kits so that we can see the "truth."

Also, I don't agree with the assertion that a road-driven car needn't have well-engineered dampers. It could be argued that properly engineered dampers are at least as essential on a road car that typically sees more road undulations, pot-holes, and other phenomena that require proper suspension damping than a car that spends most of it's time on a smooth racetrack.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

Our version RR dampers are built for specific applications. They come with dyno charts in the box. NO ONE has ever called in with issues to their results. Our Kontrol Pro's are mass produced. A random selection of dampers from the batch are tested. Actual numbers of dampers tested isn't known by me at this time. It's how the manufacturing process works when you mass produce. Some slip through the cracks, they always will. Thats why we have a warranty. If anything is going to fail due to manufacture defect it'll happen early on.

What about when your product doesn't perform as advertised? For instance, your company claims "36 levels of dampening adjustment" and claims that both rebound AND compression damping are adjustable, yet the graphs show that no changes to compression damping are made at all throughout the entire range of knob adjustment.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

My whole point is that when you buy a coilover for street use, it doesn't have to be moton/ohlin/penske quality. They just don't, you'd never use the damper to it's ability, if it must be for you, then Ksport/Megan/BC/Stance/Function&Form etc are not for you. As much as I'd like our product to be that, it's just too expensive. It's a double edged sword. We re-engineer our product to be on par with said brands...cost goes up or we lose money. Our off the shelf Kontrol Pro's ran the fastest time in the NASA TTS class at MMP's 3.0 mile configuration. Real world results IMO beat out bench racing any day. Looking at a dyno graph of ANY kind and trying to dictate how it would act in the real world especially in a comparitive manner = speculation aka bench racing.

**edit** I apologize if I'm coming off as rude. I'm on my 4th day of not smoking cigs so I'm a little

Again, I don't agree that it isn't important to have a high quality damper on my car. For only a few hundred dollars more than your Kontrol Pro setup, I can get a KW-built adjustable ride-height coilover suspension for my Mazda with independent compression and rebound adjustment that was engineered specifically for the vehicle I drive.

How does Ksport determine what spring rates/damping curves it will use for a particular vehicle? I'm not being facetious. I really would like to know.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

By no means am I saying it's best. I'm a realist, I've used the majority of the different coilovers on the market today. I know what our product is and what it isn't. Out of the options in the same price range, I believe it to be on top.

That's great. And again, if you read my initial post in this thread, I think you'll find that I acknowledge that your product has its place in the market. I just want people to understand what it is their money is buying them.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

It's a well known fact that we don't manufacture our product stateside. We have always had dyno at our manufacturing facility. About 9 months ago we expressed a new one to the factory to improve on our QC. Right now we have the same type dyno being put together for us at our own facility here in AZ. All Ksport components are built in the same location.

Well it may be "well known," but I couldn't find anything on your website that specified where it was that they ARE manufactured. Does Ksport own its own manufacturing facilities? Or do you contract the work out?

Again, I really do appreciate your presence in this thread. As ClintB1321 said, we're honestly not trying to crap on Ksport here. We just want people to understand that just because a product looks great and makes certain claims, it doesn't automatically mean it's on par with many of the tried-and-true options out there.

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

First of all, it was not my intention to present those links as if they are "the bible," as you put it. I think if you go back and re-read my first post you'll see that.

Regarding the Ksport-specific Mazda forum link, I don't think Jeff at Tri-Sport ever claimed to be a Ksport dealer. I wouldn't suspect that they ever were.
You're correct in you assertion that they don't provide proof that they were new. In the interest of fairness, I invite you to provide us with shock dyno plots of 4 dampers taken from one of your off-the-shelf kits so that we can see the "truth."

I don't mean to nitpick, but when a claim is made, the burden of proof lies on their shoulders. While they posted a dyno plot of our coilovers, there was in fact no proof that they were even our coilovers. What says that they weren't a blown set of Koni shocks? Or even a blown set of Ksport shocks. Generally when a post like his is made, there is a motive behind it. I can assure you that when Ksport hit the market his Koni sales declined. I'm not going to go as far as calling Tri-point a liar, I'm just wondering why, if he's willing to go as far as dyno a set of shocks, would he not want to prove the validity of his claim by showing them on the dyno?

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Also, I don't agree with the assertion that a road-driven car needn't have well-engineered dampers. It could be argued that properly engineered dampers are at least as essential on a road car that typically sees more road undulations, pot-holes, and other phenomena that require proper suspension damping than a car that spends most of it's time on a smooth racetrack.

Touche, as far as I'm concerned there is nothing to prove that ksport is anything but that.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

What about when your product doesn't perform as advertised? For instance, your company claims "36 levels of dampening adjustment" and claims that both rebound AND compression damping are adjustable, yet the graphs show that no changes to compression damping are made at all throughout the entire range of knob adjustment.

Again, the graphs are questionable at best in terms of their validity.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Again, I don't agree that it isn't important to have a high quality damper on my car. For only a few hundred dollars more than your Kontrol Pro setup, I can get a KW-built adjustable ride-height coilover suspension for my Mazda with independent compression and rebound adjustment that was engineered specifically for the vehicle I drive.

Every application we have is engineered for each specific model. I've done the install on every new application we've had come out since I've worked here, noted any type of issues, if any that I had with install, and then waited for our local engineers to come out and determine whether or not the damping and spring rates are proper for the application.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

How does Ksport determine what spring rates/damping curves it will use for a particular vehicle? I'm not being facetious. I really would like to know.

This I'll have to get back with you on, as I said, I'm not an engineer, just a sales guy. I could speculate, but I'd rather not.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

That's great. And again, if you read my initial post in this thread, I think you'll find that I acknowledge that your product has its place in the market. I just want people to understand what it is their money is buying them.

Understood, I just mis-read your intentions after reading the post, I apologize.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Well it may be "well known," but I couldn't find anything on your website that specified where it was that they ARE manufactured. Does Ksport own its own manufacturing facilities? Or do you contract the work out?

I'll post up some pics tomorrow of our manufacturing facility. It's all in one place, called Ksport racing and is in Taiwan.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Again, I really do appreciate your presence in this thread. As ClintB1321 said, we're honestly not trying to crap on Ksport here. We just want people to understand that just because a product looks great and makes certain claims, it doesn't automatically mean it's on par with many of the tried-and-true options out there.

Not a problem, if I can answer the questions or address the concerns I am more than willing too. I also agree that a flashy logo and product does not equal a properly functioning product, and I too would like to weed out the ones that fit into the this category. I honestly do not believe Ksport to fall under it and soon enough (once we have our shock dyno) we'll prove it here.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

I don't mean to nitpick, but when a claim is made, the burden of proof lies on their shoulders. While they posted a dyno plot of our coilovers, there was in fact no proof that they were even our coilovers. What says that they weren't a blown set of Koni shocks? Or even a blown set of Ksport shocks. Generally when a post like his is made, there is a motive behind it. I can assure you that when Ksport hit the market his Koni sales declined. I'm not going to go as far as calling Tri-point a liar, I'm just wondering why, if he's willing to go as far as dyno a set of shocks, would he not want to prove the validity of his claim by showing them on the dyno?

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

Touche, as far as I'm concerned there is nothing to prove that ksport is anything but that.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

Again, the graphs are questionable at best in terms of their validity.

Actually, you ARE going as far as to call Jeff at Tri-Sport a liar. He clearly states in the link that they are brand new, fresh out of the box Kontrol Pro coilovers for a Nissan 240SX. If you disagree with that assertion, you are indeed calling him a liar.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

Every application we have is engineered for each specific model. I've done the install on every new application we've had come out since I've worked here, noted any type of issues, if any that I had with install, and then waited for our local engineers to come out and determine whether or not the damping and spring rates are proper for the application.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

This I'll have to get back with you on, as I said, I'm not an engineer, just a sales guy. I could speculate, but I'd rather not.

Just to be clear, I never called into question whether or not your kits physically fit the cars they're designed for. I just want to know how spring rates and damper curves are chosen.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

Understood, I just mis-read your intentions after reading the post, I apologize.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

I'll post up some pics tomorrow of our manufacturing facility. It's all in one place, called Ksport racing and is in Taiwan.

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

Not a problem, if I can answer the questions or address the concerns I am more than willing too. I also agree that a flashy logo and product does not equal a properly functioning product, and I too would like to weed out the ones that fit into the this category. I honestly do not believe Ksport to fall under it and soon enough (once we have our shock dyno) we'll prove it here.

Great!

I look forward to your future posts.

[syntheticGT]

btw...kudos to ksportbranden...

Not many folks survive this long at the level of civility you are keeping in this thread.

A+ brother!

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Actually, you ARE going as far as to call Jeff at Tri-Sport a liar. He clearly states in the link that they are brand new, fresh out of the box Kontrol Pro coilovers for a Nissan 240SX. If you disagree with that assertion, you are indeed calling him a liar.

I'm just questioning the validity of his claim. Without proof, it cannot logically be considered valid.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Just to be clear, I never called into question whether or not your kits physically fit the cars they're designed for. I just want to know how spring rates and damper curves are chosen.

I understand, I was just getting at the fact that after the initial install, I don't see the car again til it comes off and sent back for any changes internally that might need to be done or to readjust anything for the customers preferences before we give the car back.

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Great!

I look forward to your future posts.

Ok, with these pics I was pretty limited with what I am able to post. Apparently there are parts of the process that isn't to be shown, as I'm sure you can understand.



















and I'm afraid I'm going to have to end it there...lowering spring container arriving shortly..gotta love unloading 1000+ lowering springs in AZ heat...no more triple digit temps at least

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by syntheticGT

btw...kudos to ksportbranden...

Not many folks survive this long at the level of civility you are keeping in this thread.

A+ brother!

Thank you sir, I appreciate you guys allowing me to come in and at least state our side of things.

Maybe we'll see some of you guys around at SEMA.

[Nliiitend1]

Originally Posted by KsportBranden

I'm just questioning the validity of his claim. Without proof, it cannot logically be considered valid.

Fair enough, but along those same lines we can't really consider anything YOU'VE said in this thread regarding your products' damping characteristics or adjustability to be valid either...

It is not my belief that Tri-Point Engineering is "out to get Ksport" any more than the rest of us, but if that's what you want to believe, you're well within your rights to do so.

Until I see shock dyno plots that call into question the results that Tri-Point came up with, I'm inclined to believe them.

I've been looking all over the interweb for some corroboration of Tri-Point's results and have had a hard time finding some. Could it be possible that everyone on the internet is basing their opinions upon Tri-Point's results (which could very well be invalid)? Possibly, but it seems to me that a company with nothing to hide would have addressed this issue already (at least once over the past few years) by posting shock dyno results that refute Tri-Point's claims, rather than making the empty promises of shock dyno results that I seem to keep coming across when I read through Ksport related threads on other automotive forums (example below)...

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1248073

[KsportBranden]

Originally Posted by Nliiitend1

Fair enough, but along those same lines we can't really consider anything YOU'VE said in this thread regarding your products' damping characteristics or adjustability to be valid either...

Look, we often go racing, whether we take out our Integra, or one of our sponsored cars goes, we get results. Finishing among to the top 3 just about every time we go out. Tage ran the fastest time ever recorded in his class at MMP on our KONTROL PRO's. Brady ran the fastest time of the day at the last industry day event, and consistently finishes in the top 3 everytime out, but an ambiguous shock dyno of a claimed brand new Ksport shock 2 years ago, can refute the real world results we consistently get?

There is really no point to go back and forth arguing over Tri-points 'results'. You'll believe what you want and vice versa. I do however, have a bit of inside knowledge that leads me to believe what I do, and thats the continued success in the market, and on the roads, be it track or street.

[Nliiitend1]

You're right. Race results and "customer testimonials" alone will not convince me that Tri-Point's findings are "invalid."

[svo_dave]

Its funny, I was just at local speed shop and talk to owner and he said he has seen dozens of k sports come in that were barely new and pretty much all corroded to the point were it couldn't be adjusted, I told him there was something like a new coated process and he said, "that's interesting"

[Stolle]

funny. i posted that i bought the ksports for the pillowball mounts and adjustability and you start this huge thread just to bash them? call it what you want. your bashing them. just in a 2 faced way

i street drive and track the car once in a while. once a month in the summer.

i have played with my ksports.

i LOVE them. not sure but im pretty sure they changed things up since all this i read about them not feeling like the adjust and such. but they do. im no pro at setting up my damper rates...but when i set them full hard and full soft. there was a HUGE difference.

my only complaint. i need to cut the foam rear spring isolators so they fit a flat ground sping since the rears have a flat ground and dont fit the stock isolators since the stock springs just end and arnt ground flat.

the end result. a little metal clunking the rears from the springs moving on metal to metal contact.

the ksports just feel solid. say what you want. im very impressed by them for STREET DRIVING. not omg f1 track days.

get over yourselfs people. to each his own.

end result. id buy ksports again.

ps. to the person who said Tein is a budget brand...your retarded. sry.

someones pissed off cause these companies you hate are doing so well at the track without posting omg dyno results. if the cars fast. its fast. we dont need to see what the dampers are doing at whatever rate...if you wanna do that. go start an f1 team and datalog your suspension.

you would prolly hate on someone with an ebay intake tube and genuine K&N filter on the end that dynoed higher then you. BUT OMFG ITS NOT AEM PIPING. its ebay with a aem/k&N filter.

if it makes power. it makes power.

you cant seem to let go the fact the these shock dyno results from 2 years ago and are somehow still valid to this day. even if ksport themselves have said they have changed things up but cant tell you the whole details.

[ClintB1321]

if Ksport is making good stuff, then thats great for the community, but im just trying to find out for my self and others when it comes to track related performance if the Ksports are a good option for such activity.

[sleeperlove]

Stolle,
Wanting to know what the shocks are doing is not something reserved for F1 teams or even pro race teams. Damping is very important to how the car handles. It may feel good to you but that does not mean that the damping is creating optimal handling, and for those of us that track a lot or are very interested in suspension tuning optimal handling/$ is very important.

They work well for you, and as I have said to you twice now, that is great. Quit bitching at people for wanting more information about a product. You don't buy a turbo without looking at the efficiency map/compressor map, or whatever its called. Its the same thing here. K sport is new to our market, it would be nice to see some up to date information on their dampers.

[Stolle]

ok well the OP came off like a real dick head posting the way did...

that was the most heated smiley argurment ive seen since joining FJ in 06.

i understand your guys uber idealist ways with suspension. im the same way with my engine performance. i hear you totally on the turbo maps.

maybe just word things different. there was wayyyy too much calling out on ksport it seems.

and i have just the Kontrols. not the pros. when you go pro on ksports you have any hane custom rated springs and damper rates you want. they will work you no problem.

but for an off the shelf coilover for the focus they have blown the water off anything ive seen. and ive ridden in H&R, Bilstien. and owned KW's.

i think the brands we are used to are outdated. i love the pillow ball mounts. makes me feel better knowing when i dump the car for looks wise when im messing around im not putting extra strain on the upper mounts...which are comming to go bad and bind up on our cars dont forget. and its nice to have camber options availabe without having to buy the 300$ LCR plates which have issues working with KW's as they have admitted.

as a street/light track person the entry level kontrols are perfect for the focus.

to SVOdave...

i have NO clue what your talking about with an orange bracket....

[Stolle]

oh just noticed another feature i love.

the sway bar mounts can travel up and down...thus letting you be able to preload the sway bar how you want.

no need for those overpriced 200$ endlinks.

[ClintB1321]

Originally Posted by Stolle

but for an off the shelf coilover for the focus they have blown the water off anything ive seen. and ive ridden in H&R, Bilstien. and owned KW's.

i think the brands we are used to are outdated. i love the pillow ball mounts. makes me feel better knowing when i dump the car for looks wise when im messing around im not putting extra strain on the upper mounts...which are comming to go bad and bind up on our cars dont forget. and its nice to have camber options availabe without having to buy the 300$ LCR plates which have issues working with KW's as they have admitted.

as a street/light track person the entry level kontrols are perfect for the focus.

ok stolle, you said you've RIDDEN in a car with H&R's and the ksports are better.....ridden doing what? driving down the street? hitting apex's on a road course? what? and the k sports are better in what way? ride comfort? handling? what? I run the FS camber plates, and they are on a spercical bearing just like your ksport camber plates. IM trying to get info on TRACK PERFORMANCE, and from what ive driven on in regards to on track, on a focus. MY current H&R setup with the rates ive chosen kicks ass...

Originally Posted by Stolle

oh just noticed another feature i love.

the sway bar mounts can travel up and down...thus letting you be able to preload the sway bar how you want.

no need for those overpriced 200$ endlinks.

who has 200 dollar endlinks?? i run the stock