SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S - Focaljet

**focaljet-1** · 08-11-2001, 09:47 AM

Talk amongst yourselves... I'll give you a topic

Obvious price differences aside, I see everyone talking SVT vs. RSX, Si, WRX, etc.

No one has brought up the '02 New Beetle Turbo S (and upcoming GTI for that matter).

Specs (known so far):
180HP 1.8T
6-speed
Unique 17" alloys
Unique front and rear bumpers
2 color leather "color concept" interior (rumored)
Dual exhaust (may just mean dual tip)
2,964 Lbs. (est.)
$22K+ (est.)
New colors: Platinum Grey, Marlin Blue, Reflex Silver, Double Yellow and possible the supposedly very cool Snap Orange.

Other "information" suggest the GTI will return to it's "driver's car" roots. More power and tighter handling with a similar spec to the NB above as the "entry level" GTI and a new 201HP version of the venerable VR6.

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To reach me by email please use this address wrcfan@teamfocaljet.com

[This message has been edited by wrcfan (edited 08-11-2001).]

**Peloton25** · 08-11-2001, 06:58 PM

But it's the Beetle...

You can't be serious...

>8^)
ER

**focaljet-1** · 08-11-2001, 09:26 PM

I'm not taking sides

I'm just saying the specs put it "performance-wise" in the hunt.

Besides, love or hate the NB (actually I like it) design, there is the GTI.

The original pocket rocket is still a contender almost 2 decades later.

------------------
To reach me by email please use this address wrcfan@teamfocaljet.com

**Ducman69** · 08-11-2001, 10:00 PM

Yeah, in order to keep testosterone at a decent level, I think we should talk about the wicked GTI with that VR6.

Thats a massive 25hp jump from last year though. Wow! That will definitely compensate for its slight porkiness.

Still have to argue how much SVT could have pumped up the HP and torque figures with an additional $4,000 to work with in the budget. That buys quite a bit of engine goodies.

**SilverSVT** · 08-11-2001, 10:06 PM

New Beetle=Girly Car

Tell you the truth most times if I see a guy in New beetle thats under 40...they look like a Flammer...right in itself is enough to take it out any consideration for ANYTHING!

So I'll take the GTI out of the two...

Scott

------------------
1998 Mustang GT for now..
Mods:
K&N
Pro 5.0 Shifter
Steeda Tri-axe shifter handle
White Gauge Faces
Koieng Villains with 255/45/17s

**GundamFan** · 08-11-2001, 10:41 PM

Well the 1.8T GTI will walk away from the RSX, SVT, GT-S, if chipped. Handling is definately sub par though to all of them unless you severely massage the suspension. If the new "sport" suspension is truly that,then the 2002 GTI could be the car to beat. Chipped 1.8T's can spin their front wheels all the way through second from all the torque. Which is usually 230-250lb feet with 80% or so of that at 3,000 or so. This is chipped ofcourse.

By the way I think Peloton owns a few beetles. Just ask him about it.

------------------
Liquid Silver 2k Celica GT-S
AEM CAI, TRD Exhaust, TRD Short Shifter, TRD Helical LSD, TRD Clutch, Tom's flywheel, Goodridge brake lines, Hawk Pads, SSR Integral A2's with Bridgestone S-03's, RMM Front Strut Tower Bar, TRD Rear Tower Bar, Cusco front lower bar, Suspension Techniques rear sway bar, misc. cosmetic and audio mods

**SaTaNcLaUz** · 08-12-2001, 12:55 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by SilverSVT:
New Beetle=Girly Car

Tell you the truth most times if I see a guy in New beetle thats under 40...they look like a Flammer...right in itself is enough to take it out any consideration for ANYTHING!

So I'll take the GTI out of the two...

Scott

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

does that mean when i drive this, i am a FLAMER, in a FLAMER car? but, then , doesn't it cancel each other out? you know, like a double neg?

<sprite spoof ad>
image is nothing, DRIVING is EVERYTHING!
</sprite spoof ad>

how about, i take you for a ride? when you drive around, and see people look at you, and procede to beat the snot out of eachother, see kids, and adults alike go ape$****. you'll change your mind.

and btw, they actually are FUN to drive, i just wouldnt label the beetle a flamer car, maybe a girlie car yes, but flamer? say that to me while im driving

**racerx** · 08-12-2001, 01:48 PM

Definitely the new GTIs are tempting, since they're upping the power and trimming the price to a less ridiculous level. As far as interiors go, the VWs are tops. Our neighbor has one on 18's that I sometimes ogle when I think no one else is looking.
As far as the Beetles go, they're a great styling exercise. What I don't like is that practicality was sacrificed to accomodate that exercise. Instead of form following function, as in the original, they took a Golf platform and stuffed it under a Beetle shaped shell, leaving a picnic table sized dash and a tiny back seat. Nothing against those that drive them, but I prefer cars where the engineers have more influence than the stylists.

BTW, do the Vee-Dubs still lift their inside rears like a dog on a hydrant?

**6thGear** · 08-12-2001, 02:06 PM

I think the New Beetles are ugly, but whatever floats your boat!

If you're comparing basic performance who cares. Mod whatever it is to the extreme and forget what you came with!

**SaTaNcLaUz** · 08-12-2001, 03:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by racerx:
BTW, do the Vee-Dubs still lift their inside rears like a dog on a hydrant? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

huh? i dont understand?

**racerx** · 08-12-2001, 03:33 PM

The older GTIs had a habit of lifting their inside rear tire under hard cornering. One of my buddies in college raced Golfs and GTIs...it was funny to go to Mid-Ohio and watch the VWs on three wheels. I used to call them the Tripods.

Nothing major, only a couple of inches. I just figured they could corner a lot harder with four contact patches on the tarmac.

**dru2002** · 08-13-2001, 10:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by njbongo:
Well guys, I hate to burst your bubble, but my roomate just got a 2001 Beetle Sport (special edition, sport susp, 17" color matched wheels, etc).

This car is totally STOCK, and it kicks the SNOT out of my totally stock ZX3 in power AND handling. Although, it DOES not ride a nice over bumpy roads. He paid $18500 for it, which is roughly what the SVT will be. This car is so friggin fast, I don't think the SVT will beat IT, never mind the even faster Turbo S Beetle (180HP, rather than 150).

The turbo setup in the 1.8T sweet. You get boost accross a wide range of RPM's, and the boost keeps going up to around 5500 RPM's.

I LOVE MY FOCUS.....but I wouldn't race a Zx3 OR SVT against any VW with a 1.8T in it. That's just asking to get spanked.

I am basing ALL of this on STOCK cars without mods. I know the SVT isn't even out yet, I'm going by specs alone.

I'm sure one of you psychos out there already have a Focus that will beat thse cars, but the question is....at what cost? How much MORE did you have to dump into it JUST to keep up. I am truly disapointed with the noisy trany in our Foci and the lackluster performance of MOST of the super and turbo chargers I've been hearing about. I'm having second thoughts about spending all that money on mods.

When the SVT comes out, I will test drive it against the new VW's (I'm considering the GTI or Jetta), then I'll make my decision.

And come on, Focus or VW...what's the difference as long as we spank all the Honda's out there. We already spanked a few Civic SI's and a V6 Accord amoung a few other's. It is ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICAL to spank these idiots with a cut little yellow beetle.

just my 2 cents<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

U Have got to be kidding me its does the 1320 in 15.9 thats not as blazing fast as u describe. Its 0-60 is only 7.3 seconds. The way u describe it, its freeking amazing but its not all that fast. Its not all the that slow either so ill call it quick. And handling is better than a focus thats a new one he must have some good tires cause the stock ones with the sport package only put down .84g of lateral grip. So i dont see how that is gonna outhandle the svt focus. But with crappy rubber and a very soft suspension we put down .82g so i would assume its gonna be a little better on the svt.

**njbongo** · 08-14-2001, 12:13 AM

Well guys, I hate to burst your bubble, but my roomate just got a 2001 Beetle Sport (special edition, sport susp, 17" color matched wheels, etc).

This car is totally STOCK, and it kicks the SNOT out of my totally stock ZX3 in power AND handling. Although, it DOES not ride a nice over bumpy roads. He paid $18500 for it, which is roughly what the SVT will be. This car is so friggin fast, I don't think the SVT will beat IT, never mind the even faster Turbo S Beetle (180HP, rather than 150).

The turbo setup in the 1.8T sweet. You get boost accross a wide range of RPM's, and the boost keeps going up to around 5500 RPM's.

I LOVE MY FOCUS.....but I wouldn't race a Zx3 OR SVT against any VW with a 1.8T in it. That's just asking to get spanked.

I am basing ALL of this on STOCK cars without mods. I know the SVT isn't even out yet, I'm going by specs alone.

I'm sure one of you psychos out there already have a Focus that will beat thse cars, but the question is....at what cost? How much MORE did you have to dump into it JUST to keep up. I am truly disapointed with the noisy trany in our Foci and the lackluster performance of MOST of the super and turbo chargers I've been hearing about. I'm having second thoughts about spending all that money on mods.

When the SVT comes out, I will test drive it against the new VW's (I'm considering the GTI or Jetta), then I'll make my decision.

And come on, Focus or VW...what's the difference as long as we spank all the Honda's out there. We already spanked a few Civic SI's and a V6 Accord amoung a few other's. It is ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICAL to spank these idiots with a cut little yellow beetle.

just my 2 cents

**njbongo** · 08-14-2001, 11:00 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dru2002:

U Have got to be kidding me its does the 1320 in 15.9 thats not as blazing fast as u describe. Its 0-60 is only 7.3 seconds. The way u describe it, its freeking amazing but its not all that fast. Its not all the that slow either so ill call it quick. And handling is better than a focus thats a new one he must have some good tires cause the stock ones with the sport package only put down .84g of lateral grip. So i dont see how that is gonna outhandle the svt focus. But with crappy rubber and a very soft suspension we put down .82g so i would assume its gonna be a little better on the svt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

7.3 seconds is A HELL of a lot faster than my stock ZX3. And probalby on par or FASTER than the SVT is goinf to be. I'm not going to argue that the SVT MIGHT handle better then the Beetle, but I still don't think it would win any race against it....ESPECIALLY once the beetle is bumped up to 180 HP in the 2002 model.

By the way, the Beetle Sport DOES NOT have a soft suspension at all. In fact, it's quite a bit stiffer than the ZX3 making it handle WAY better. There is a lot less body roll in the Beetle Sport Edition than a stock ZX3....get a grip on yourself. Do your homework before you reply. Better yet, go out and actually DRIVE one.

As I said before, I LOVE my zx3, but I still think the regular 150HP Beetle Sport Edition will keep up with the SVT Focus. The SVT puts out 170HP at 7000 RPMs and 145lbs of torque at 5500 RPMS !!!!! The current Beetle does 150HP at 5800 RPMs, and the full 162lb of torque are available at 2200-4200 RPM's. ALL THIS PERFORMANCE BEFORE THE TURBO S JUMPS IT UP TO 180 HP.

What kind up crack do you smoke? Get me some.

The Focus is a great car for the money....but it's still no competition for any VW with a 1.8T in it IN STOCK FORM.

sorry to disapoint you

**njbongo** · 08-14-2001, 02:52 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ducman69:
Sorry to interupt your S&M spanking fantasy. But would you care to explain to me how ON PAPER 150hp/160ftlbs powering 2950lbs of VW "spanks" 170hp/145ftlbs powering 2750lbs? Reality is more complicated than simple power to weight ratios, but on PAPER as you were saying. There is no competition.

The SVT has more power where it matters most for racing (up top), while tugging around 200 pounds less pork with instant smooth throttle response since its NA.

Sure the $18,700 GLS Beetle outclasses the $12,200 standard ZX3. With $6,500 (since you mentioned pumping money into a standard ZX3 as not being economical), you could purchase a $1,200 set of H&R Stage IV coilovers and the Aerocharger Stage IV kit for $3,350 (bringing power up to 210hp crank) and you'd still have $2000 left for the Advance Trac if you find four wheel discs and that nifty traction control neccesary and still have some change for some super sticky KDWs. On top of that, the car would weigh about 400 pounds less than the GLS!

The only info we have for the S is that it will have an extra 10 hp over the SVT but weigh 200 pounds more while also costing $4000 over the SVT. I still don't see great competition here. Sorry. Am I missing anything?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

**njbongo** · 08-14-2001, 03:11 PM

Sorry, something happened and my reply didn't get in the above post.

Anyway, your not interupting any fantasy I have. I'm not having one. It's reality.

I'll make my final decision when the SVT is finally out and I DRIVE one. But sorry, I don't have the faith in Ford that you do.

As far as mods, I can't justify dumping $6500 dollars into MY ZX3 making the total $20500. For $500 I can get a new computer for the Bettle Sport making 200 HP for a grand total of $19000. Oh, and the Beetle has leather, heated seats, mirrors and washer nozzles, EDL AND ASR traction control (they work at ALL SPEEDS), ABS, power moonroof, etc. AND ALL AT ONLY 200LBS MORE.

Sorry I can't be a complete Ford freak like you. I bought my ZX3 bacause of the amazing price and aftermarket stuff. I wish I got a VW instead after driving one. Next time, I won't be put off by the higher price tag.

**dru2002** · 08-14-2001, 03:55 PM

i fully love vw my brother drives one my sister drives one and if it wasnt for the focus i would be driving one. So im not a ford freak but ur arguments make no sense, and i have driving one my sister has a beetle. And i still dont see ur argument. I gave u facts g force numbers but u ignored them and started talking about body roll. Which unless im wrong dont g forces give a pretty good indicaton of handling ability. The corvette z06 is a great handler and guess what it puts out of 1g of lateral accleration. So where is ur argument. And With the small turbos vw uses on the 1.8t u probably wont even be able to notice turbo lag. Its throttel response should be pretty linear. But u really do need to step away form the crack saying the reality is that the beetle s will stomp the svt.

PS why every time some names a car faster than a vw does someone always respond but they have a nicer interior or heated washer nozzles??? What do heated washer nozzles do I use mine on my focus in 10 degree weather and guess what there not frozen so why are we heating them?????

**njbongo** · 08-14-2001, 06:05 PM

Ahhh, yet another blind Ford freak with his head up his ass.

If you could take the time to carefully read the ENTIRE post you would see that my point is the ADDED WEIGHT is from the ADDED features. I'm sure the heating element for the waser nozzles do not make up all 200lbs of weight difference.

You are also arguing specs for the current Beetle, NOT the Turbo S model coming out. VW has not released ANY official specs on it. And sorry, but I don't see any 'lateral G' specs for the SVT either. Oh AND WHAT THE HELL DOES THE CORVETTE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS !>!>! Is the Focus SVT secretly designed by Chevrolet now? You are grasping at straws that aren't there.

I guess the only way to prove this will be to wait until both cars are out. My money is on the Beetle (or the Jetta or GTI which will ALL have the 180HP engine).

Who knows,maybe I'll actually like the SVT and it will be faster....I'm just not counting on it. Most of the mechanics of the VW's with the 1.8T's is all borrowed from Audi.

Once again, I LOVE my Focus. I just think it's a dog and sticking an SVT badge on it after squeezin out another 40 HP is like polishing a turd.

**racerx** · 08-14-2001, 07:05 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by njbongo:
Ahhh, yet another blind Ford freak with his head up his ass.

Most of the mechanics of the VW's with the 1.8T's is all borrowed from Audi.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And yet another intelligent argument blossoms into being.

By the way...VW is the parent company. Audi doesn't use VW engines any more than Ford uses Jag or Aston engines. I would suggest that a TT is a actually a tarted up bug.

[This message has been edited by racerx (edited 08-14-2001).]

**Ducman69** · 08-14-2001, 07:23 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I just think it's a dog and sticking an SVT badge on it after squeezin out another 40 HP is like polishing a turd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Now, I'm going to have to thrash you. First I will run over you with my polished turd. Then I will proceed to get in the SVT Cobra (its lower ride height so I needed to flatten you a bit first), and then perform a burnout on your head. The only way you can save yourself is to appologize and admit that Beetles are girlie.

[This message has been edited by Ducman69 (edited 08-14-2001).]

**doogie78** · 08-14-2001, 07:48 PM

Beetles can look bad a--. But for $22K?

**dru2002** · 08-14-2001, 08:25 PM

are u an idiot??? i was stating that lateral g forces is a good indication of handling ability, and using the z06 as a point of reference how is that grasping at straws. The g forces of the stock zx3 are known and i can gaurantee with the quality rubber and the suspension adjustments svt made its going to have way better lateral acceleration the base zx3.

**Ducman69** · 08-15-2001, 12:33 AM

Sorry to interupt your S&M spanking fantasy. But would you care to explain to me how ON PAPER 150hp/160ftlbs powering 2950lbs of VW "spanks" 170hp/145ftlbs powering 2750lbs? Reality is more complicated than simple power to weight ratios, but on PAPER as you were saying. There is no competition.

The SVT has more power where it matters most for racing (up top), while tugging around 200 pounds less pork with instant smooth throttle response since its NA.

Sure the $18,700 GLS Beetle outclasses the $12,200 standard ZX3. With $6,500 (since you mentioned pumping money into a standard ZX3 as not being economical), you could purchase a $1,200 set of H&R Stage IV coilovers and the Aerocharger Stage IV kit for $3,350 (bringing power up to 210hp crank) and you'd still have $2000 left for the Advance Trac if you find four wheel discs and that nifty traction control neccesary and still have some change for some super sticky KDWs. On top of that, the car would weigh about 400 pounds less than the GLS!

The only info we have for the S is that it will have an extra 10 hp over the SVT but weigh 200 pounds more while also costing $4000 over the SVT. I still don't see great competition here. Sorry. Am I missing anything?

------------------
00 Ford ZX3/ 96 Ford Cobra
90 Yam FJ1200/ 85 Yam RZ350 / 84 Yam RZ350
Engine Forum Moderator -Chris-

**njbongo** · 08-15-2001, 02:25 PM

LOL

First racerx....no SHXT VW is the parent company of Audi AND Porsche.....and they all develop SEPERATE products (Not like Ford, Lincoln AND Mercury all throwing the same crappy engines in their cars and jacking up the price). HOWEVER, the 1.8T WAS developed by Audi, and IS the same engine used in ALL of the VW's with a 1.8T in it. Do your homework.

now,Ducman69, what your saying is you NEED AN SVT COBRA to beat me. What's the matter, won't your precious Focus do it? You should go seek therapy for OCD. It's obsessed freaks like you that Ford LOVES !!! They can slap their name on any old peice of metal and you'll buy it and actually BELEIVE it's te greatest car on earth JUST BECAUSE FORD MAKES IT ?!?! Hold your breath for my apology, maybe you'll pass out. Like SaTaNcLaUz said below, "say that to me while im driving". I probably won't hear it since you'll be so far behind me.

And dru2002, who posted the specs your spewing out here, Ford? Because based on their EPA gas mileage rating, I wouldn't really trust them. My car never gets more thn 18 MPG, even all on the highway with the AC off. And I hate to tell you this, but my freinds Beetle COMPLETELY outhandles and outperforms my Focus. AND STILL GETS 27MPG. You can put anything on paper you want, but the proof is in the driving pal. If you were trying to make some type of point with the Corvette, that was a poor choice.

FocalPoint, you are absuloutely right about all of the good things coming our way. Everyone else here seems to be to blinded by Ford love to realize there are EQUALLY OR BETTER and FASTER cars built.

08-11-2001, 09:47 AM	#1
focaljet-1 Small Car Czar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: On the RotorMedia helipad Posts: 29,076	SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Talk amongst yourselves... I'll give you a topic Obvious price differences aside, I see everyone talking SVT vs. RSX, Si, WRX, etc. No one has brought up the '02 New Beetle Turbo S (and upcoming GTI for that matter). Specs (known so far): 180HP 1.8T 6-speed Unique 17" alloys Unique front and rear bumpers 2 color leather "color concept" interior (rumored) Dual exhaust (may just mean dual tip) 2,964 Lbs. (est.) $22K+ (est.) New colors: Platinum Grey, Marlin Blue, Reflex Silver, Double Yellow and possible the supposedly very cool Snap Orange. Other "information" suggest the GTI will return to it's "driver's car" roots. More power and tighter handling with a similar spec to the NB above as the "entry level" GTI and a new 201HP version of the venerable VR6. ------------------ To reach me by email please use this address wrcfan@teamfocaljet.com [This message has been edited by wrcfan (edited 08-11-2001).]

08-11-2001, 06:58 PM	#2
Peloton25 Mr Know-It-All Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Moorpark, CA USA Posts: 21,779	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S But it's the Beetle... You can't be serious... >8^) ER

08-11-2001, 09:26 PM	#3
focaljet-1 Small Car Czar Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: On the RotorMedia helipad Posts: 29,076	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S I'm not taking sides I'm just saying the specs put it "performance-wise" in the hunt. Besides, love or hate the NB (actually I like it) design, there is the GTI. The original pocket rocket is still a contender almost 2 decades later. ------------------ To reach me by email please use this address wrcfan@teamfocaljet.com

08-11-2001, 10:00 PM	#4
Ducman69 I pretend to know everything. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: van by the river Posts: 18,745	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Yeah, in order to keep testosterone at a decent level, I think we should talk about the wicked GTI with that VR6. Thats a massive 25hp jump from last year though. Wow! That will definitely compensate for its slight porkiness. Still have to argue how much SVT could have pumped up the HP and torque figures with an additional $4,000 to work with in the budget. That buys quite a bit of engine goodies.

08-11-2001, 10:06 PM	#5
SilverSVT Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 4,972	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S New Beetle=Girly Car Tell you the truth most times if I see a guy in New beetle thats under 40...they look like a Flammer...right in itself is enough to take it out any consideration for ANYTHING! So I'll take the GTI out of the two... Scott ------------------ 1998 Mustang GT for now.. Mods: K&N Pro 5.0 Shifter Steeda Tri-axe shifter handle White Gauge Faces Koieng Villains with 255/45/17s

08-11-2001, 10:41 PM	#6
GundamFan Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Cali Posts: 21	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Well the 1.8T GTI will walk away from the RSX, SVT, GT-S, if chipped. Handling is definately sub par though to all of them unless you severely massage the suspension. If the new "sport" suspension is truly that,then the 2002 GTI could be the car to beat. Chipped 1.8T's can spin their front wheels all the way through second from all the torque. Which is usually 230-250lb feet with 80% or so of that at 3,000 or so. This is chipped ofcourse. By the way I think Peloton owns a few beetles. Just ask him about it. ------------------ Liquid Silver 2k Celica GT-S AEM CAI, TRD Exhaust, TRD Short Shifter, TRD Helical LSD, TRD Clutch, Tom's flywheel, Goodridge brake lines, Hawk Pads, SSR Integral A2's with Bridgestone S-03's, RMM Front Strut Tower Bar, TRD Rear Tower Bar, Cusco front lower bar, Suspension Techniques rear sway bar, misc. cosmetic and audio mods

08-12-2001, 12:55 AM	#7
SaTaNcLaUz Moderator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: (Rob) Indianapolis, Indiana, USA Posts: 8,364	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SilverSVT: New Beetle=Girly Car Tell you the truth most times if I see a guy in New beetle thats under 40...they look like a Flammer...right in itself is enough to take it out any consideration for ANYTHING! So I'll take the GTI out of the two... Scott <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> does that mean when i drive this, i am a FLAMER, in a FLAMER car? but, then , doesn't it cancel each other out? you know, like a double neg? <sprite spoof ad> image is nothing, DRIVING is EVERYTHING! </sprite spoof ad> how about, i take you for a ride? when you drive around, and see people look at you, and procede to beat the snot out of eachother, see kids, and adults alike go ape$****. you'll change your mind. and btw, they actually are FUN to drive, i just wouldnt label the beetle a flamer car, maybe a girlie car yes, but flamer? say that to me while im driving

08-12-2001, 01:48 PM	#8
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,600	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Definitely the new GTIs are tempting, since they're upping the power and trimming the price to a less ridiculous level. As far as interiors go, the VWs are tops. Our neighbor has one on 18's that I sometimes ogle when I think no one else is looking. As far as the Beetles go, they're a great styling exercise. What I don't like is that practicality was sacrificed to accomodate that exercise. Instead of form following function, as in the original, they took a Golf platform and stuffed it under a Beetle shaped shell, leaving a picnic table sized dash and a tiny back seat. Nothing against those that drive them, but I prefer cars where the engineers have more influence than the stylists. BTW, do the Vee-Dubs still lift their inside rears like a dog on a hydrant?

08-12-2001, 02:06 PM	#9
6thGear Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Soon to be classified Posts: 1,122	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S I think the New Beetles are ugly, but whatever floats your boat! If you're comparing basic performance who cares. Mod whatever it is to the extreme and forget what you came with!

08-12-2001, 03:20 PM	#10
SaTaNcLaUz Moderator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: (Rob) Indianapolis, Indiana, USA Posts: 8,364	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by racerx: BTW, do the Vee-Dubs still lift their inside rears like a dog on a hydrant? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> huh? i dont understand?

08-12-2001, 03:33 PM	#11
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,600	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S The older GTIs had a habit of lifting their inside rear tire under hard cornering. One of my buddies in college raced Golfs and GTIs...it was funny to go to Mid-Ohio and watch the VWs on three wheels. I used to call them the Tripods. Nothing major, only a couple of inches. I just figured they could corner a lot harder with four contact patches on the tarmac.

08-13-2001, 10:58 PM	#12
dru2002 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,089	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by njbongo: Well guys, I hate to burst your bubble, but my roomate just got a 2001 Beetle Sport (special edition, sport susp, 17" color matched wheels, etc). This car is totally STOCK, and it kicks the SNOT out of my totally stock ZX3 in power AND handling. Although, it DOES not ride a nice over bumpy roads. He paid $18500 for it, which is roughly what the SVT will be. This car is so friggin fast, I don't think the SVT will beat IT, never mind the even faster Turbo S Beetle (180HP, rather than 150). The turbo setup in the 1.8T sweet. You get boost accross a wide range of RPM's, and the boost keeps going up to around 5500 RPM's. I LOVE MY FOCUS.....but I wouldn't race a Zx3 OR SVT against any VW with a 1.8T in it. That's just asking to get spanked. I am basing ALL of this on STOCK cars without mods. I know the SVT isn't even out yet, I'm going by specs alone. I'm sure one of you psychos out there already have a Focus that will beat thse cars, but the question is....at what cost? How much MORE did you have to dump into it JUST to keep up. I am truly disapointed with the noisy trany in our Foci and the lackluster performance of MOST of the super and turbo chargers I've been hearing about. I'm having second thoughts about spending all that money on mods. When the SVT comes out, I will test drive it against the new VW's (I'm considering the GTI or Jetta), then I'll make my decision. And come on, Focus or VW...what's the difference as long as we spank all the Honda's out there. We already spanked a few Civic SI's and a V6 Accord amoung a few other's. It is ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICAL to spank these idiots with a cut little yellow beetle. just my 2 cents<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> U Have got to be kidding me its does the 1320 in 15.9 thats not as blazing fast as u describe. Its 0-60 is only 7.3 seconds. The way u describe it, its freeking amazing but its not all that fast. Its not all the that slow either so ill call it quick. And handling is better than a focus thats a new one he must have some good tires cause the stock ones with the sport package only put down .84g of lateral grip. So i dont see how that is gonna outhandle the svt focus. But with crappy rubber and a very soft suspension we put down .82g so i would assume its gonna be a little better on the svt.

08-14-2001, 12:13 AM	#13
njbongo TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hackensack, NJ Posts: 126	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Well guys, I hate to burst your bubble, but my roomate just got a 2001 Beetle Sport (special edition, sport susp, 17" color matched wheels, etc). This car is totally STOCK, and it kicks the SNOT out of my totally stock ZX3 in power AND handling. Although, it DOES not ride a nice over bumpy roads. He paid $18500 for it, which is roughly what the SVT will be. This car is so friggin fast, I don't think the SVT will beat IT, never mind the even faster Turbo S Beetle (180HP, rather than 150). The turbo setup in the 1.8T sweet. You get boost accross a wide range of RPM's, and the boost keeps going up to around 5500 RPM's. I LOVE MY FOCUS.....but I wouldn't race a Zx3 OR SVT against any VW with a 1.8T in it. That's just asking to get spanked. I am basing ALL of this on STOCK cars without mods. I know the SVT isn't even out yet, I'm going by specs alone. I'm sure one of you psychos out there already have a Focus that will beat thse cars, but the question is....at what cost? How much MORE did you have to dump into it JUST to keep up. I am truly disapointed with the noisy trany in our Foci and the lackluster performance of MOST of the super and turbo chargers I've been hearing about. I'm having second thoughts about spending all that money on mods. When the SVT comes out, I will test drive it against the new VW's (I'm considering the GTI or Jetta), then I'll make my decision. And come on, Focus or VW...what's the difference as long as we spank all the Honda's out there. We already spanked a few Civic SI's and a V6 Accord amoung a few other's. It is ABSOLUTELY HYSTERICAL to spank these idiots with a cut little yellow beetle. just my 2 cents

08-14-2001, 11:00 AM	#14
njbongo TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hackensack, NJ Posts: 126	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dru2002: U Have got to be kidding me its does the 1320 in 15.9 thats not as blazing fast as u describe. Its 0-60 is only 7.3 seconds. The way u describe it, its freeking amazing but its not all that fast. Its not all the that slow either so ill call it quick. And handling is better than a focus thats a new one he must have some good tires cause the stock ones with the sport package only put down .84g of lateral grip. So i dont see how that is gonna outhandle the svt focus. But with crappy rubber and a very soft suspension we put down .82g so i would assume its gonna be a little better on the svt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 7.3 seconds is A HELL of a lot faster than my stock ZX3. And probalby on par or FASTER than the SVT is goinf to be. I'm not going to argue that the SVT MIGHT handle better then the Beetle, but I still don't think it would win any race against it....ESPECIALLY once the beetle is bumped up to 180 HP in the 2002 model. By the way, the Beetle Sport DOES NOT have a soft suspension at all. In fact, it's quite a bit stiffer than the ZX3 making it handle WAY better. There is a lot less body roll in the Beetle Sport Edition than a stock ZX3....get a grip on yourself. Do your homework before you reply. Better yet, go out and actually DRIVE one. As I said before, I LOVE my zx3, but I still think the regular 150HP Beetle Sport Edition will keep up with the SVT Focus. The SVT puts out 170HP at 7000 RPMs and 145lbs of torque at 5500 RPMS !!!!! The current Beetle does 150HP at 5800 RPMs, and the full 162lb of torque are available at 2200-4200 RPM's. ALL THIS PERFORMANCE BEFORE THE TURBO S JUMPS IT UP TO 180 HP. What kind up crack do you smoke? Get me some. The Focus is a great car for the money....but it's still no competition for any VW with a 1.8T in it IN STOCK FORM. sorry to disapoint you

08-14-2001, 02:52 PM	#15
njbongo TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hackensack, NJ Posts: 126	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ducman69: Sorry to interupt your S&M spanking fantasy. But would you care to explain to me how ON PAPER 150hp/160ftlbs powering 2950lbs of VW "spanks" 170hp/145ftlbs powering 2750lbs? Reality is more complicated than simple power to weight ratios, but on PAPER as you were saying. There is no competition. The SVT has more power where it matters most for racing (up top), while tugging around 200 pounds less pork with instant smooth throttle response since its NA. Sure the $18,700 GLS Beetle outclasses the $12,200 standard ZX3. With $6,500 (since you mentioned pumping money into a standard ZX3 as not being economical), you could purchase a $1,200 set of H&R Stage IV coilovers and the Aerocharger Stage IV kit for $3,350 (bringing power up to 210hp crank) and you'd still have $2000 left for the Advance Trac if you find four wheel discs and that nifty traction control neccesary and still have some change for some super sticky KDWs. On top of that, the car would weigh about 400 pounds less than the GLS! The only info we have for the S is that it will have an extra 10 hp over the SVT but weigh 200 pounds more while also costing $4000 over the SVT. I still don't see great competition here. Sorry. Am I missing anything? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

08-14-2001, 03:11 PM	#16
njbongo TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hackensack, NJ Posts: 126	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Sorry, something happened and my reply didn't get in the above post. Anyway, your not interupting any fantasy I have. I'm not having one. It's reality. I'll make my final decision when the SVT is finally out and I DRIVE one. But sorry, I don't have the faith in Ford that you do. As far as mods, I can't justify dumping $6500 dollars into MY ZX3 making the total $20500. For $500 I can get a new computer for the Bettle Sport making 200 HP for a grand total of $19000. Oh, and the Beetle has leather, heated seats, mirrors and washer nozzles, EDL AND ASR traction control (they work at ALL SPEEDS), ABS, power moonroof, etc. AND ALL AT ONLY 200LBS MORE. Sorry I can't be a complete Ford freak like you. I bought my ZX3 bacause of the amazing price and aftermarket stuff. I wish I got a VW instead after driving one. Next time, I won't be put off by the higher price tag.

08-14-2001, 03:55 PM	#17
dru2002 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,089	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S i fully love vw my brother drives one my sister drives one and if it wasnt for the focus i would be driving one. So im not a ford freak but ur arguments make no sense, and i have driving one my sister has a beetle. And i still dont see ur argument. I gave u facts g force numbers but u ignored them and started talking about body roll. Which unless im wrong dont g forces give a pretty good indicaton of handling ability. The corvette z06 is a great handler and guess what it puts out of 1g of lateral accleration. So where is ur argument. And With the small turbos vw uses on the 1.8t u probably wont even be able to notice turbo lag. Its throttel response should be pretty linear. But u really do need to step away form the crack saying the reality is that the beetle s will stomp the svt. PS why every time some names a car faster than a vw does someone always respond but they have a nicer interior or heated washer nozzles??? What do heated washer nozzles do I use mine on my focus in 10 degree weather and guess what there not frozen so why are we heating them?????

08-14-2001, 06:05 PM	#18
njbongo TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hackensack, NJ Posts: 126	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Ahhh, yet another blind Ford freak with his head up his ass. If you could take the time to carefully read the ENTIRE post you would see that my point is the ADDED WEIGHT is from the ADDED features. I'm sure the heating element for the waser nozzles do not make up all 200lbs of weight difference. You are also arguing specs for the current Beetle, NOT the Turbo S model coming out. VW has not released ANY official specs on it. And sorry, but I don't see any 'lateral G' specs for the SVT either. Oh AND WHAT THE HELL DOES THE CORVETTE HAVE TO DO WITH THIS !>!>! Is the Focus SVT secretly designed by Chevrolet now? You are grasping at straws that aren't there. I guess the only way to prove this will be to wait until both cars are out. My money is on the Beetle (or the Jetta or GTI which will ALL have the 180HP engine). Who knows,maybe I'll actually like the SVT and it will be faster....I'm just not counting on it. Most of the mechanics of the VW's with the 1.8T's is all borrowed from Audi. Once again, I LOVE my Focus. I just think it's a dog and sticking an SVT badge on it after squeezin out another 40 HP is like polishing a turd.

08-14-2001, 07:05 PM	#19
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,600	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by njbongo: Ahhh, yet another blind Ford freak with his head up his ass. Most of the mechanics of the VW's with the 1.8T's is all borrowed from Audi. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> And yet another intelligent argument blossoms into being. By the way...VW is the parent company. Audi doesn't use VW engines any more than Ford uses Jag or Aston engines. I would suggest that a TT is a actually a tarted up bug. [This message has been edited by racerx (edited 08-14-2001).]

08-14-2001, 07:23 PM	#20
Ducman69 I pretend to know everything. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: van by the river Posts: 18,745	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just think it's a dog and sticking an SVT badge on it after squeezin out another 40 HP is like polishing a turd<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Now, I'm going to have to thrash you. First I will run over you with my polished turd. Then I will proceed to get in the SVT Cobra (its lower ride height so I needed to flatten you a bit first), and then perform a burnout on your head. The only way you can save yourself is to appologize and admit that Beetles are girlie. [This message has been edited by Ducman69 (edited 08-14-2001).]

08-14-2001, 07:48 PM	#21
doogie78 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,194	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Beetles can look bad a--. But for $22K?

08-14-2001, 08:25 PM	#22
dru2002 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 1,089	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S are u an idiot??? i was stating that lateral g forces is a good indication of handling ability, and using the z06 as a point of reference how is that grasping at straws. The g forces of the stock zx3 are known and i can gaurantee with the quality rubber and the suspension adjustments svt made its going to have way better lateral acceleration the base zx3.

08-15-2001, 12:33 AM	#23
Ducman69 I pretend to know everything. Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: van by the river Posts: 18,745	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S Sorry to interupt your S&M spanking fantasy. But would you care to explain to me how ON PAPER 150hp/160ftlbs powering 2950lbs of VW "spanks" 170hp/145ftlbs powering 2750lbs? Reality is more complicated than simple power to weight ratios, but on PAPER as you were saying. There is no competition. The SVT has more power where it matters most for racing (up top), while tugging around 200 pounds less pork with instant smooth throttle response since its NA. Sure the $18,700 GLS Beetle outclasses the $12,200 standard ZX3. With $6,500 (since you mentioned pumping money into a standard ZX3 as not being economical), you could purchase a $1,200 set of H&R Stage IV coilovers and the Aerocharger Stage IV kit for $3,350 (bringing power up to 210hp crank) and you'd still have $2000 left for the Advance Trac if you find four wheel discs and that nifty traction control neccesary and still have some change for some super sticky KDWs. On top of that, the car would weigh about 400 pounds less than the GLS! The only info we have for the S is that it will have an extra 10 hp over the SVT but weigh 200 pounds more while also costing $4000 over the SVT. I still don't see great competition here. Sorry. Am I missing anything? ------------------ 00 Ford ZX3/ 96 Ford Cobra 90 Yam FJ1200/ 85 Yam RZ350 / 84 Yam RZ350 Engine Forum Moderator -Chris-

08-15-2001, 02:25 PM	#24
njbongo TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Hackensack, NJ Posts: 126	Re: SVT vs. New Beetle Turbo S LOL First racerx....no SHXT VW is the parent company of Audi AND Porsche.....and they all develop SEPERATE products (Not like Ford, Lincoln AND Mercury all throwing the same crappy engines in their cars and jacking up the price). HOWEVER, the 1.8T WAS developed by Audi, and IS the same engine used in ALL of the VW's with a 1.8T in it. Do your homework. now,Ducman69, what your saying is you NEED AN SVT COBRA to beat me. What's the matter, won't your precious Focus do it? You should go seek therapy for OCD. It's obsessed freaks like you that Ford LOVES !!! They can slap their name on any old peice of metal and you'll buy it and actually BELEIVE it's te greatest car on earth JUST BECAUSE FORD MAKES IT ?!?! Hold your breath for my apology, maybe you'll pass out. Like SaTaNcLaUz said below, "say that to me while im driving". I probably won't hear it since you'll be so far behind me. And dru2002, who posted the specs your spewing out here, Ford? Because based on their EPA gas mileage rating, I wouldn't really trust them. My car never gets more thn 18 MPG, even all on the highway with the AC off. And I hate to tell you this, but my freinds Beetle COMPLETELY outhandles and outperforms my Focus. AND STILL GETS 27MPG. You can put anything on paper you want, but the proof is in the driving pal. If you were trying to make some type of point with the Corvette, that was a poor choice. FocalPoint, you are absuloutely right about all of the good things coming our way. Everyone else here seems to be to blinded by Ford love to realize there are EQUALLY OR BETTER and FASTER cars built.