SCC Traction Control Comments - Focaljet

**OTTOMATIC** · 02-21-2002, 10:09 AM

Is anyone concerned about what SCC said about the traction control. They claimed that even in the off position, it still interfered with accleration. Can this be possible? Should I cancel my Winter Package?

**hoop-d** · 02-21-2002, 01:31 PM

*bump*

**P_Laz** · 02-21-2002, 05:01 PM

A car with the cold weather package which includes traction control will have two states of traction control:

Brake and Engine Intervention.
Brake Intervention.

P Laz

**Peloton25** · 02-21-2002, 05:07 PM

What about when you pull the fuse??

You probably can't comment on that for certain understanable reasons, but I know of some cars where a simple fuse pull will disable similar systems.

>8^)
ER

**OTTOMATIC** · 02-21-2002, 05:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by P_Laz:
A car with the cold weather package which includes traction control will have two states of traction control:

Brake and Engine Intervention.
Brake Intervention.

P Laz<hr></blockquote>

SCC claimed that even when the traction control was in the off position they felt it(TC) was hindering accleration. How do your comments address this? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Now that I re-read your post...It appears you are saying there is always some sort of intervention no matter what setting the traction control is on.
This seems odd. If traction control is off, shouldn't there be NO intervention.
I will be cancelling my winter package if this is the case.

[ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: OTTOMATIC ]

**CharlesWA** · 02-21-2002, 05:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by P_Laz:
Brake and Engine Intervention.
Brake Intervention.<hr></blockquote>

Is there a third "off" position? Or is it "on" (Brake/Engine) or "off" (Brake only)? (Or maybe the other way around? I've never had a car with TC on it...)

**Peloton25** · 02-21-2002, 05:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by OTTOMATIC:
How do your comments address this? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote>

Maybe I'm misinterpreting him, but it sounds to me like:

System 'On' = Brake and Engine Intervention.

System 'Off' = Brake Intervention.

Fuse Pulled = Unknown variable [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

But I could be wrong.

>8^)
ER

**OTTOMATIC** · 02-21-2002, 05:31 PM

This sounds bad...I was really happy with my fully loaded SVT and now I'm [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]
Other's opinions would be very welcome...
get the winter package or not [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

**AdjustedFocus** · 02-21-2002, 06:02 PM

All I know is that I HATE it when I'm trying to accelerate into a turn and all of a sudden my engine drops a few thousand revs [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I'd say, if you live in an area that is ABSOLUTELY freezing get it. 'Cause in that case you could use the heated seats (mmm, it was nice, I had it on my jetta) and engine block heater thing--and if the roads are icey a lot, it'd also help with that. OTHERWISE, I would certainly not get the package. The car handles very well; don't let traction control limit the fun you can have with it. Have fun! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

**OTTOMATIC** · 02-21-2002, 06:05 PM

I do leave in the NW where it tends to rain nearly every day but freezing is not something we see often.

**ModMan** · 02-21-2002, 07:03 PM

hmmm... this is sounding bad... I know the mustang t/c is off when it is off... there is no ambiguity... the algorithm also allows for some wheel spin before engaging to permit some degree of agressive driving with the system activated... Doesn't sound like the focus system is similar... man I was looking forward to the heated seats though. P_Laz are you an SVT type with informed knowledge?? Thanks for the info...

**xtnded** · 02-21-2002, 07:13 PM

As far as heated seats go...you can go to your local accessory dealer and get the same ones they put in BMW's (not sure the name) for about $225 each, but these are more reliable than Ford I'm sure [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] And as for the TC...I dumped mine before I even read the SCC review...but now in retrospect, I'm very glad I did not get it!

My $.02

**P_Laz** · 02-21-2002, 07:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by Peloton25:

Maybe I'm misinterpreting him, but it sounds to me like:

System 'On' = Brake and Engine Intervention.

System 'Off' = Brake Intervention.

Fuse Pulled = Unknown variable [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

But I could be wrong.

>8^)
ER<hr></blockquote>

Good Interpretation

**racerx** · 02-21-2002, 07:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by P_Laz:
Good Interpretation<hr></blockquote>
Boo! [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

Like ModMan's Mustang, in our Contour off is off.

**ZTS_Dude** · 02-21-2002, 08:10 PM

If you turn it off, it still works?!?! How strange. This is my take on it, and please correct me if I'm wrong P_Laz-- but traction control is very misunderstood. Traction control is an acceleration only thing. It won't do you any good if you're going around a 20 mph curve at 80 and hit some gravel or something. It's a feature to help you obtain traction quicker during acceleration. Stablility control (AdvaceTrac [which includes traction control]) helps you if you do take that corner too quickly. I have also heard rumors that stability control doesn't work if you are not on the gas at all, which would really be unfortunate, but I'd like to know about this. Anyway, if the SVT has a switch to turn it off, would this not allow you to roast 'em? Thanks

~Tim

**racerx** · 02-21-2002, 08:35 PM

Most traction controls work in two stages. Generally, at low speed it uses the brakes to reduce wheel spin, and at higher speed, it will reduce engine power in combination with brakes.

In our car, however, disabling the T/C to my knowledge kills both, although in truth I've only turned it off at relatively low speeds to rock out of plowed snow and what not.

For some reason it would appear the SVT's brake intervention cannot be completely killed. [img]graemlins/thumbdown.gif[/img]

**ev1svt** · 02-21-2002, 08:43 PM

If I were you winter package guys, I would cancel that part of the order.
What is traction control anyway? A system that slows down activity when your brain would tell you to do so anyway. Who is going to sit there and spin the tires on ice for 5 minutes before they realize they need to let off the gas?
ASM, or a stability managment control system in my opinion is a much more valid "driver interuption device."
TC is just doing what you would probably do anyway, and not being able to shut it down would be completely would be annoying. What about the auto-x guys!?

**FocusPimp** · 02-21-2002, 08:53 PM

man i was wondering about that when i read it. i am very disappointed by cause i really wanted those heated seats! damnit.....

**ModMan** · 02-22-2002, 07:22 AM

I would like some more detail on this... I wonder who is doing the control logic for this system?? I can't believe and/or perceive what the rationale is for keeping part of it active even when the driver has chosen to turn it off. P_Laz I am not doubting what you said... but could you explain a little more in detail how the system will actually "function" in driving situations. Do you know what else is on that circuit?? This has been asked before, but can it be defeated at the fuse block? If so I will just install an additional defeat switch for when I am at the track... Thanks!

**wrk4svt** · 02-22-2002, 09:49 AM

Here is how it works.

The "full" traction control system (when in the default "on" position) includes engine and brake (ABS) intervention in slippery conditions.
With the traction control "off", only the engine intervention is defeated, while the brake intervention still applies for traction "assist". Being that this is a cold weather feature, the brake intervention remains as an assist in possible low mu (slippery) situations and as a less intrusive traction assist for adverse driving conditions.
With the traction control "off", the brake intervention assist feature will only apply under 20mph. Therefore, it should not come into play on a road course.
I would absolutely NOT recommend removing the fuse. This would disable ABS, a primary safety feature of the vehicle.

**BlackSVT** · 02-22-2002, 10:04 AM

wrk4svt, I understand if you can't get into more detail, but I'll ask anyway [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Can you give us any hints as to the reasoning behind keeping the brake intervention active at all times?

thx

**OTTOMATIC** · 02-22-2002, 10:09 AM

I ordered this package under the assumption that the on/off switch would turn off all traction control intervention. So with this package, if you do a hard launch from a stop, the breaks will be applied to prevent slippage?

**wrk4svt** · 02-22-2002, 10:14 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Can you give us any hints as to the reasoning behind keeping the brake intervention active at all times?<hr></blockquote>

Same as above. The brake intervention remains as an assist in possible slippery situations as a less intrusive traction assist.

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by OTTOMATIC:
So with this package, if you do a hard launch from a stop, the breaks will be applied to prevent slippage?<hr></blockquote>

Yes, assuming the launch causes wheel spin.

[ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: wrk4svt ]

**BlackSVT** · 02-22-2002, 10:26 AM

I guess I was asking more for the reasoning behind the design choice.

IMHO, the only customer that would even know or care about defeatable traction control is the customer that SVT caters to. Most JoeBlows that buy a Taurus, Focus, Windstar, etc. won't even know they bought the option much less want to turn it off. SVT customers... well that's self-evident.

**OTTOMATIC** · 02-22-2002, 10:34 AM

There should be a 3rd, OFF position.
The question was asked along time ago if the system could be turned off and we were told it could. Now it cannot be and my cold weather package is gone [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

02-21-2002, 10:09 AM	#1
OTTOMATIC Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR 97035 Posts: 1,931	SCC Traction Control Comments Is anyone concerned about what SCC said about the traction control. They claimed that even in the off position, it still interfered with accleration. Can this be possible? Should I cancel my Winter Package?

02-21-2002, 01:31 PM	#2
hoop-d TEAM Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Any-Town USA Posts: 543	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments bump

02-21-2002, 05:01 PM	#3
P_Laz TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Dearborn, MI Posts: 103	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments A car with the cold weather package which includes traction control will have two states of traction control: Brake and Engine Intervention. Brake Intervention. P Laz

02-21-2002, 05:07 PM	#4
Peloton25 Mr Know-It-All Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Moorpark, CA USA Posts: 21,779	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments What about when you pull the fuse?? You probably can't comment on that for certain understanable reasons, but I know of some cars where a simple fuse pull will disable similar systems. >8^) ER

02-21-2002, 05:08 PM	#5
OTTOMATIC Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR 97035 Posts: 1,931	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by P_Laz: A car with the cold weather package which includes traction control will have two states of traction control: Brake and Engine Intervention. Brake Intervention. P Laz<hr></blockquote> SCC claimed that even when the traction control was in the off position they felt it(TC) was hindering accleration. How do your comments address this? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Now that I re-read your post...It appears you are saying there is always some sort of intervention no matter what setting the traction control is on. This seems odd. If traction control is off, shouldn't there be NO intervention. I will be cancelling my winter package if this is the case. [ 02-21-2002: Message edited by: OTTOMATIC ]</p>

02-21-2002, 05:16 PM	#6
CharlesWA Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Woodinville, WA, USA Posts: 9,942	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by P_Laz: Brake and Engine Intervention. Brake Intervention.<hr></blockquote> Is there a third "off" position? Or is it "on" (Brake/Engine) or "off" (Brake only)? (Or maybe the other way around? I've never had a car with TC on it...)

02-21-2002, 05:20 PM	#7
Peloton25 Mr Know-It-All Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Moorpark, CA USA Posts: 21,779	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OTTOMATIC: How do your comments address this? [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] <hr></blockquote> Maybe I'm misinterpreting him, but it sounds to me like: System 'On' = Brake and Engine Intervention. System 'Off' = Brake Intervention. Fuse Pulled = Unknown variable [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] But I could be wrong. >8^) ER

02-21-2002, 05:31 PM	#8
OTTOMATIC Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR 97035 Posts: 1,931	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments This sounds bad...I was really happy with my fully loaded SVT and now I'm [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img] Other's opinions would be very welcome... get the winter package or not [img]images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

02-21-2002, 06:02 PM	#9
AdjustedFocus Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, DC / San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 77	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments All I know is that I HATE it when I'm trying to accelerate into a turn and all of a sudden my engine drops a few thousand revs [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] I'd say, if you live in an area that is ABSOLUTELY freezing get it. 'Cause in that case you could use the heated seats (mmm, it was nice, I had it on my jetta) and engine block heater thing--and if the roads are icey a lot, it'd also help with that. OTHERWISE, I would certainly not get the package. The car handles very well; don't let traction control limit the fun you can have with it. Have fun! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

02-21-2002, 06:05 PM	#10
OTTOMATIC Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR 97035 Posts: 1,931	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments I do leave in the NW where it tends to rain nearly every day but freezing is not something we see often.

02-21-2002, 07:03 PM	#11
ModMan TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Whitmore Lake, MI USA Posts: 132	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments hmmm... this is sounding bad... I know the mustang t/c is off when it is off... there is no ambiguity... the algorithm also allows for some wheel spin before engaging to permit some degree of agressive driving with the system activated... Doesn't sound like the focus system is similar... man I was looking forward to the heated seats though. P_Laz are you an SVT type with informed knowledge?? Thanks for the info...

02-21-2002, 07:13 PM	#12
xtnded TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Inner Circle Of Thought... Posts: 553	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments As far as heated seats go...you can go to your local accessory dealer and get the same ones they put in BMW's (not sure the name) for about $225 each, but these are more reliable than Ford I'm sure [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] And as for the TC...I dumped mine before I even read the SCC review...but now in retrospect, I'm very glad I did not get it! My $.02

02-21-2002, 07:36 PM	#13
P_Laz TEAM Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Dearborn, MI Posts: 103	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Peloton25: Maybe I'm misinterpreting him, but it sounds to me like: System 'On' = Brake and Engine Intervention. System 'Off' = Brake Intervention. Fuse Pulled = Unknown variable [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] But I could be wrong. >8^) ER<hr></blockquote> Good Interpretation

02-21-2002, 07:49 PM	#14
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,600	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by P_Laz: Good Interpretation<hr></blockquote> Boo! [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img] Like ModMan's Mustang, in our Contour off is off.

02-21-2002, 08:10 PM	#15
ZTS_Dude TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: [Tim] PDX/Salem, OR Posts: 723	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments If you turn it off, it still works?!?! How strange. This is my take on it, and please correct me if I'm wrong P_Laz-- but traction control is very misunderstood. Traction control is an acceleration only thing. It won't do you any good if you're going around a 20 mph curve at 80 and hit some gravel or something. It's a feature to help you obtain traction quicker during acceleration. Stablility control (AdvaceTrac [which includes traction control]) helps you if you do take that corner too quickly. I have also heard rumors that stability control doesn't work if you are not on the gas at all, which would really be unfortunate, but I'd like to know about this. Anyway, if the SVT has a switch to turn it off, would this not allow you to roast 'em? Thanks ~Tim

02-21-2002, 08:35 PM	#16
racerx [FJ] Specialist Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 8,600	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments Most traction controls work in two stages. Generally, at low speed it uses the brakes to reduce wheel spin, and at higher speed, it will reduce engine power in combination with brakes. In our car, however, disabling the T/C to my knowledge kills both, although in truth I've only turned it off at relatively low speeds to rock out of plowed snow and what not. For some reason it would appear the SVT's brake intervention cannot be completely killed. [img]graemlins/thumbdown.gif[/img]

02-21-2002, 08:43 PM	#17
ev1svt TEAM Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Douglasville Ga Posts: 777	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments If I were you winter package guys, I would cancel that part of the order. What is traction control anyway? A system that slows down activity when your brain would tell you to do so anyway. Who is going to sit there and spin the tires on ice for 5 minutes before they realize they need to let off the gas? ASM, or a stability managment control system in my opinion is a much more valid "driver interuption device." TC is just doing what you would probably do anyway, and not being able to shut it down would be completely would be annoying. What about the auto-x guys!?

02-21-2002, 08:53 PM	#18
FocusPimp Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: C : enter # # # Posts: 2,578	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments man i was wondering about that when i read it. i am very disappointed by cause i really wanted those heated seats! damnit.....

02-22-2002, 07:22 AM	#19
ModMan TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Whitmore Lake, MI USA Posts: 132	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments I would like some more detail on this... I wonder who is doing the control logic for this system?? I can't believe and/or perceive what the rationale is for keeping part of it active even when the driver has chosen to turn it off. P_Laz I am not doubting what you said... but could you explain a little more in detail how the system will actually "function" in driving situations. Do you know what else is on that circuit?? This has been asked before, but can it be defeated at the fuse block? If so I will just install an additional defeat switch for when I am at the track... Thanks!

02-22-2002, 09:49 AM	#20
wrk4svt Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Dearborn, MI Posts: 70	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments Here is how it works. The "full" traction control system (when in the default "on" position) includes engine and brake (ABS) intervention in slippery conditions. With the traction control "off", only the engine intervention is defeated, while the brake intervention still applies for traction "assist". Being that this is a cold weather feature, the brake intervention remains as an assist in possible low mu (slippery) situations and as a less intrusive traction assist for adverse driving conditions. With the traction control "off", the brake intervention assist feature will only apply under 20mph. Therefore, it should not come into play on a road course. I would absolutely NOT recommend removing the fuse. This would disable ABS, a primary safety feature of the vehicle.

02-22-2002, 10:04 AM	#21
BlackSVT TEAM Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: NW \'Burbs of Chicago Posts: 414	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments wrk4svt, I understand if you can't get into more detail, but I'll ask anyway [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Can you give us any hints as to the reasoning behind keeping the brake intervention active at all times? thx

02-22-2002, 10:09 AM	#22
OTTOMATIC Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR 97035 Posts: 1,931	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments I ordered this package under the assumption that the on/off switch would turn off all traction control intervention. So with this package, if you do a hard launch from a stop, the breaks will be applied to prevent slippage?

02-22-2002, 10:14 AM	#23
wrk4svt Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Dearborn, MI Posts: 70	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Can you give us any hints as to the reasoning behind keeping the brake intervention active at all times?<hr></blockquote> Same as above. The brake intervention remains as an assist in possible slippery situations as a less intrusive traction assist. <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by OTTOMATIC: So with this package, if you do a hard launch from a stop, the breaks will be applied to prevent slippage?<hr></blockquote> Yes, assuming the launch causes wheel spin. [ 02-22-2002: Message edited by: wrk4svt ]</p>

02-22-2002, 10:26 AM	#24
BlackSVT TEAM Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: NW \'Burbs of Chicago Posts: 414	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments I guess I was asking more for the reasoning behind the design choice. IMHO, the only customer that would even know or care about defeatable traction control is the customer that SVT caters to. Most JoeBlows that buy a Taurus, Focus, Windstar, etc. won't even know they bought the option much less want to turn it off. SVT customers... well that's self-evident.

02-22-2002, 10:34 AM	#25
OTTOMATIC Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Portland, OR 97035 Posts: 1,931	Re: SCC Traction Control Comments There should be a 3rd, OFF position. The question was asked along time ago if the system could be turned off and we were told it could. Now it cannot be and my cold weather package is gone [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode