CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat - Page 4 - The Ford Focus Forum

**ott** · 05-17-2006, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaT

Why do some people ONLY look at peak numbers? You sir, are an idiot. The gains between 3k and 5k are HUGE.

Before you start insulting people, why don't you take a closer look at the dyno test. The most gains are between 3k and 4.5k. The max hp is around 6.5k and max torque is at just at over 5k. When do you shift? Between 3k and 5k? or closer to 7k rpm?

I did make a wrong attribution to headers instead of cat, but my basis of the gains vs stock not worth the money still stands. If you think it's worth it, by all means go buy it. I know I won't. Just because my opinion differs from yours doesn't mean I'm wrong or right.

**jr_psychologist** · 05-18-2006, 02:18 AM

I'll be happy to take the gains between 3k and 5k just to get the thing off the line in 1st gear a little easier. Also, the extra grunt in that particular spot may well be the difference between needing to downshift to pass or not needing too

I definitely hear your point though ott, in a full-out rip through the gears I'm only between 3k and 5k in one gear (unless you count 5/6, but I'm not trying to get pulled over

), but it's a REALLY important gear

**ott** · 05-18-2006, 02:57 AM

I would think that there would be a slight difference for a predator/SCT tuned SVT versus an all stock SVT. Was the dyno data based on a non tuned SVT?

**Zedeater** · 05-19-2006, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ott

I would think that there would be a slight difference for a predator/SCT tuned SVT versus an all stock SVT. Was the dyno data based on a non tuned SVT?

As stated on the 2nd page of the thread....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFM Focus

Yes, it has standard SCT tune.

**Metal** · 05-19-2006, 11:29 PM

I got my high flow cat today from C-F-M along with some other parts...it looks like a very good quality piece and the guys there are very nice to deal with. Pics are up on my site http://metal.bounceme.net/metal/focus/exhaust. I will be installing this piece next saturday along with the Borla exhaust and rear motor mount...I'll post a sound clip, if i can get one, and a review

Thanks again C-F-M!

**WuNgUn** · 05-20-2006, 09:12 AM

It's obvious the car was 'tuned' with the ORP and high-flo...all the gains are in the bottom end.
I would seriously doubt that much gain if you tuned the stock SVT BEFORE running the tests...a few percent maybe?
If it's a true 'high flow' cat, then I would expect the most power gains to be at the top end of the powerband, where the flow is actually high!
CFM, I think I've lost all respect for you...shame!

**ZIPYSVT** · 05-20-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal

I got my high flow cat today from C-F-M along with some other parts...it looks like a very good quality piece and the guys there are very nice to deal with. Pics are up on my site http://metal.bounceme.net/metal/focus/exhaust. I will be installing this piece next saturday along with the Borla exhaust and rear motor mount...I'll post a sound clip, if i can get one, and a review

Thanks again C-F-M!

Metal, thanks for posting. Love to hear the clip w/ the Borla (a magnificent exhaust, but pretty quiet) - I hope you like it with the high-flow CAT. Looking forward to your review.

**CFM Focus** · 05-21-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuNgUn

It's obvious the car was 'tuned' with the ORP and high-flo...all the gains are in the bottom end.
I would seriously doubt that much gain if you tuned the stock SVT BEFORE running the tests...a few percent maybe?
If it's a true 'high flow' cat, then I would expect the most power gains to be at the top end of the powerband, where the flow is actually high!
CFM, I think I've lost all respect for you...shame!

The car had the same tune on ALL runs. Not sure what you're talking about...

**Housecrew** · 05-21-2006, 07:39 PM

don´t trust a dyno you don´t falsified yourself is a german proverb.
so guys, keep all cool and buy what you think is the best part for your car.
i´very happy with my ORP and i will be in the future too.
fighting each other in a publicly forum is like beeing in the kindergarten!
so shut up or i will send some german volksmusik guys to you!!!

**WuNgUn** · 05-22-2006, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFM Focus

The car had the same tune on ALL runs. Not sure what you're talking about...

I'm saying, you would get similar dyno results to what your claiming, if you only flash the ECU with a programmer...
At least, that's how the dyno curve looks to me. Getting a flash tune improves the lower end/midrange EXACTLY like what your dyno chart shows...
So I'm saying, to me, that high-flow cat is worthless...
If it were highflo, I would expect the most gains to be had at the top-end of the powerband, not the low-end, where any benefits in flow would show minor results only.
So I'm speculating that you ran the base car totally stock, and tuned the high-flo cat car to make the numbers more impressive...

**Smurf** · 05-22-2006, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuNgUn

I'm saying, you would get similar dyno results to what your claiming, if you only flash the ECU with a programmer...
At least, that's how the dyno curve looks to me. Getting a flash tune improves the lower end/midrange EXACTLY like what your dyno chart shows...
So I'm saying, to me, that high-flow cat is worthless...
If it were highflo, I would expect the most gains to be had at the top-end of the powerband, not the low-end, where any benefits in flow would show minor results only.
So I'm speculating that you ran the base car totally stock, and tuned the high-flo cat car to make the numbers more impressive...

There are variances in all cars. Not all SVT's dyno out the same. As far as we know, their car dyno'ed low stock and even with all the stuff on it still only dyno's as high as some tuned cars.

I've seen it happen. And it's not that unlikely. I Really don't see CFM loading their results when they sell the part and would have to know that someone will dyno their cars and see if they BS'ed it. It just wouldn't be good business practices, and everything they've done and showed has proven to me they are above that.

**jr_psychologist** · 05-22-2006, 11:48 AM

Also, IIRC all the previous dynos I've seen on cars that tossed on an ORP or hi-flow cat showed the most gains on that low end piece just like CFM's so I don't think your expectations are on target. Look at the comparison dynos others have posted

**CFM Focus** · 05-22-2006, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02_smurf

There are variances in all cars. Not all SVT's dyno out the same. As far as we know, their car dyno'ed low stock and even with all the stuff on it still only dyno's as high as some tuned cars.

I've seen it happen. And it's not that unlikely. I Really don't see CFM loading their results when they sell the part and would have to know that someone will dyno their cars and see if they BS'ed it. It just wouldn't be good business practices, and everything they've done and showed has proven to me they are above that.

You sir, are 200% correct!

**WuNgUn** · 05-22-2006, 12:05 PM

I'm not trying to accuse anyone here...and I realize of course, not all production cars dyno exactly the same. I was only observing what CFM's dyno sheets look like to me, and suggesting a reason why.
Can anyone offer up a reason as to why these power gains are mostly seen at the low-end only? I would think that a less restrictive exhaust, all other things being identical (pipe diameter, length, bends, etc...) would aquire an even spread of power increase across the entire rev range...

**Fordson** · 05-22-2006, 12:06 PM

Also, IIRC, CFM posted a dyno of their highflow compared to the RT one in another thread. The RT was very, very slightly better, but it's quite a bit more money. My point is that if CFM were in the business of faking dynos, they would have faked this one, too.

Why would CFM post a faked dyno comparing the ORP to their high-flow cat and to stock, but not fake one comparing to their main competitor?

Don't get me wrong - when it looks like somebody's BS-ing, I say call them on it, but there is no evidence that they are trying to defraud anyone. You're just taking a shot at the guy with no evidence other than the fact that the low and mid-range are better in the "after" runs with the ORP and high-flow cat, as is the case with a tune.

As a matter of fact, the curve he posted for all three states of tune look to me like the car had a tune on and I asked and he confirmed. The stock tune gives you a hole at 5,000-5,200 rpm; the custom tunes give a bump there. All three curves on this dyno have that bump there.

**Fordson** · 05-22-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuNgUn

I'm not trying to accuse anyone here...and I realize of course, not all production cars dyno exactly the same. I was only observing what CFM's dyno sheets look like to me, and suggesting a reason why.
Can anyone offer up a reason as to why these power gains are mostly seen at the low-end only? I would think that a less restrictive exhaust, all other things being identical (pipe diameter, length, bends, etc...) would aquire an even spread of power increase across the entire rev range...

I would suspect that the RT and CFM cats play nicer than the stock one with the long-runner position of the dual-mode intake runners, and I bet that's what CFM posts in his next reply, and no I can't exactly diagram it out for you.

I would also suspect that since the top end is almost identical for the 3 scenarios, that once you replace the factory cat, the factory throttle body becomes the new bottleneck.

I imagine it would be interesting to see this comparison with a 65mm TB. I bet you would see peak gains.

**WuNgUn** · 05-22-2006, 03:41 PM

Your right of course, substituting one component on an internal combustion engine will not make a world of difference. All the components must work together to achieve optimum gains...
But like so many mods, it's hard to justify the cost of a single change for so small a gain...
Granted, the car would have nice 'around town' manners with that setup!

**Smurf** · 05-22-2006, 04:07 PM

These cars don't respond super well to bolt ons. If you want big returns for small cost, you might want to try a different vehicle. It's standard practice to pay hundreds of dollars for at most 5 or so whp in the focus world.

**CFM Focus** · 05-22-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuNgUn

CFM, I think I've lost all respect for you...shame!

Quote:

Originally Posted by WuNgUn

But like so many mods, it's hard to justify the cost of a single change for so small a gain...

It all makes sense now!

**Cnelson12** · 05-29-2006, 01:28 PM

Why is everyone attacking CFM? I think CFM is doing a great job, and I dont see any reason to question what they are doing....

**jr_psychologist** · 05-29-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cnelson12

Why is everyone attacking CFM? I think CFM is doing a great job, and I dont see any reason to question what they are doing....

Meh, there's only a couple folks being critical - and several more that have have CFM's back on this one. There's always going to be people who like to stir the pot... At this point, CFM's history of products and customer service ought to be more than enough troll defense for internet forums

**SuperFlea** · 05-29-2006, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr_psychologist

Meh, there's only a couple folks being critical - and several more that have have CFM's back on this one. There's always going to be people who like to stir the pot... At this point, CFM's history of products and customer service ought to be more than enough troll defense for internet forums

exactly!!

**EnviedSVT** · 05-29-2006, 03:05 PM

Does anybody know how well the cfm high flow will hold up under jrsc bbk forced induction

**BlkThunder** · 05-31-2006, 01:35 AM

ill tell u in a few weeks. shouldnt be a problem and if it is, im sure cfm will take caare of us

**jrssvt** · 05-31-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

enviedsvt
Does anybody know how well the cfm high flow will hold up under jrsc bbk forced induction

it has been holding up well in my car.

05-18-2006, 02:18 AM	#77 (permalink)
jr_psychologist Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Congregating with particular people Posts: 2,374	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat I'll be happy to take the gains between 3k and 5k just to get the thing off the line in 1st gear a little easier. Also, the extra grunt in that particular spot may well be the difference between needing to downshift to pass or not needing too I definitely hear your point though ott, in a full-out rip through the gears I'm only between 3k and 5k in one gear (unless you count 5/6, but I'm not trying to get pulled over ), but it's a REALLY important gear __________________ 2002 Pitch Black SVT: Math according to Xios and FocusSport: (1 snailpower*6.8psi)/1 wheel = 235whp/209wtq

05-18-2006, 02:57 AM	#78 (permalink)
ott Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 65	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat I would think that there would be a slight difference for a predator/SCT tuned SVT versus an all stock SVT. Was the dyno data based on a non tuned SVT? __________________ 2004 Competition Orange SVT Focus

05-19-2006, 11:29 PM	#80 (permalink)
Metal TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Orlando, UCF area Posts: 134	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat I got my high flow cat today from C-F-M along with some other parts...it looks like a very good quality piece and the guys there are very nice to deal with. Pics are up on my site http://metal.bounceme.net/metal/focus/exhaust. I will be installing this piece next saturday along with the Borla exhaust and rear motor mount...I'll post a sound clip, if i can get one, and a review Thanks again C-F-M!

05-21-2006, 07:39 PM	#84 (permalink)
Housecrew TEAM Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Minden / Berlin, Germany Posts: 241	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat don´t trust a dyno you don´t falsified yourself is a german proverb. so guys, keep all cool and buy what you think is the best part for your car. i´very happy with my ORP and i will be in the future too. fighting each other in a publicly forum is like beeing in the kindergarten! so shut up or i will send some german volksmusik guys to you!!! __________________ ST170 with SCT ProRacer/Livewire tuned RLA6 ECU, C-F-M Throttle Body, European Parts 2.5" ORP/Flexpipe Combo, C-F-M lower tq Mount with race bushings, Denso Iridium ITV24´s, Bastuck 2x76mm Exhaust, Green Storm CAI, Team Dynamics Diablo 7,5"x18" with 215/40ZR18 Yokohama Parada, Bilstein B14 PSS Coilover Suspension, European Parts LED Taillights, EBC Greenstuff Brake Pads, WRC Wing, FIA WTCC Carbonfibre Bodykit Focus SVT/ST170 Intercooled Rotrex Supercharger System with C30-84 Blower, FMIC and 2.5"piping ---------------------------------------------------> Check it out! <------------------------------------------------------

05-22-2006, 11:48 AM	#87 (permalink)
jr_psychologist Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Congregating with particular people Posts: 2,374	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat Also, IIRC all the previous dynos I've seen on cars that tossed on an ORP or hi-flow cat showed the most gains on that low end piece just like CFM's so I don't think your expectations are on target. Look at the comparison dynos others have posted __________________ 2002 Pitch Black SVT: Math according to Xios and FocusSport: (1 snailpower*6.8psi)/1 wheel = 235whp/209wtq

05-22-2006, 12:06 PM	#90 (permalink)
Fordson TEAM Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Western New York Posts: 769	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat Also, IIRC, CFM posted a dyno of their highflow compared to the RT one in another thread. The RT was very, very slightly better, but it's quite a bit more money. My point is that if CFM were in the business of faking dynos, they would have faked this one, too. Why would CFM post a faked dyno comparing the ORP to their high-flow cat and to stock, but not fake one comparing to their main competitor? Don't get me wrong - when it looks like somebody's BS-ing, I say call them on it, but there is no evidence that they are trying to defraud anyone. You're just taking a shot at the guy with no evidence other than the fact that the low and mid-range are better in the "after" runs with the ORP and high-flow cat, as is the case with a tune. As a matter of fact, the curve he posted for all three states of tune look to me like the car had a tune on and I asked and he confirmed. The stock tune gives you a hole at 5,000-5,200 rpm; the custom tunes give a bump there. All three curves on this dyno have that bump there. __________________ 2003 SVT InfraRed 5-door, loaded New - 8/22/03, YRF0 - 10/9/03 Diablo Predator tune - 8/22/04 FS Cool-Flo, Focus Central TB, CFM HFC, Ford Racing STS, Centerline Storms with Eagle F1 GS-D3s, OEM Size Build date 4/29/03, #894 of 2173

05-29-2006, 01:28 PM	#95 (permalink)
Cnelson12 TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PA Posts: 271	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat Why is everyone attacking CFM? I think CFM is doing a great job, and I dont see any reason to question what they are doing.... __________________ 2004 Infa-Red SVTF. #1772 of 1978, Born on 3/24/2004. Audophile, HID's, Winter Package, Borla Center Exit Exhaust, XCal2 tuned by FocusSport, CFM High Flow Cat and a few other things.

05-29-2006, 03:05 PM	#98 (permalink)
EnviedSVT TEAM Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 740	Re: CFM Dyno Test: SVT Stock Cat vs. Offroad Pipe vs. High Flow Cat Does anybody know how well the cfm high flow will hold up under jrsc bbk forced induction

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