power streering retrofit underway

[mysvtftoy]

Edit: Track day results notes at bottom of this original post...

As part of my effort to make my SVT Focus a little more reliable for open track days, one of the changes happening is a retrofit to the power steering configuration. Colin Cantrell of Cantrell Motorpsorts is doing the work. He's about 1/2 done with the project, having completed the modified HP side with the replacement fittings. I've attached some photos.

Here's the new line with fittings:


It replaces this:


Snipped here:


Key new fitting (this fitting threads into the threaded opening on the PS pump and the receptacle end tightens over it; includes a metal crush ring at the pump):


Top view of new hose assembled to stock line:



Seems to work great so far in around town testing. And looks stock! Heh.

This does require removal of the PS pump; Colin figures it to be a 2+ hour job if the you have a completed hose/adapter assembly. He's planning on offering this assembly to our community as a completed part with complete installation instructions. We're also putting on a small Mocal cooler. Colin might offer the whole deal as an option as well (cooler and adapter/hose) with complete instructions.

My first day out on the track will be July 6. I'll keep you posted with updates on this thread. I'll add pictures of the PS cooler when it goes in. I have one of those infrared reading pyrometers. I'll see what kind of temps we encounter on the pump body; that's as close as I'll be able to get to reading temps from the PS system.

June 21, 2006. As it turns out, we got the cooler installed last week. It is a Focus ATX cooler mounted low in front of the radiator (but behind my oil cooler). The thing is long (or wide depending on how you look at it). The car goes out for testing tomorrow at Pacific Raceways.

---------------------------------------------------

Update: June 23, 2006: Some track day data.

Got the car out yesterday (a little sooner than I originally expected) for a very pleasant track day at Pacific Raceways to assess the PS changes. I took three measurements after 2 sessions:

Measurement points:
* Power steering fliud in reservoir
* Pump body (top)
* HP fitting junction between new HP hose and original hardline

Test Conditions:
* First session: Following 2 cool down laps
* Second session: Exited with no cooldown

Ambient temp: ~65 to 70 deg F

Equipement notes: Raytek MiniTemp (laser) pyrometer; Hoosier R3S04 tires.

Driving style: Pretty much as I always drive; probably 8/10ths of what the car can do, with some areas of extended effort when working on specifics parts of the course.

----------------------------

First session results:
* Power steering fliud in reservoir: 105 deg F
* Pump body (top): 133 deg F
* HP fitting junction between new HP hose and original hardline: 220 deg F

Second session results:
* Power steering fliud in reservoir: 134 deg F
* Pump body (top): 159 deg F
* HP fitting junction between new HP hose and original hardline: 219 deg F
(also took a reading on the hardline for this session: 220 deg F)

I think that's considerably cooler than the stock cooling loop would get, although I did not take measurements prior to the change (my bad).

The Focus ATX cooler used for the job is a wide thing; it is set behind my oil cooler (which sits dead center behind the lower grill. We also kept the stock PS cooling loop.

Other findings: No apparent leaking or seapage at the new connectors.

I have several days coming up in July. Temps should definitely be at least in the 80s (maybe 90s) -- admittedly not a Pahrump or Willow Springs test -- but that's summer in the NW. What can I say? I'll post additional data as it is acquired.

[SVTADAM]

Looks ok. Watch those compression fittings. Those have a tendency to leak after time. That is why it is illegal to use compression line splices for brake lines. If you flared the line for the fitting, that would be best. Not saying that this wont work, but just keep your eyes on it.

On a side note, why didnt you try and relocate the line alltogether? Using flexible hose you could have extended the line a bit and run it out of sight.

[f2t90]

So i guess you were having problems with your P/S fluid getting too hot? And this routes it further from the header to keep it cooler.
looks good

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by SVTADAM

Looks ok. Watch those compression fittings. Those have a tendency to leak after time. That is why it is illegal to use compression line splices for brake lines. If you flared the line for the fitting, that would be best. Not saying that this wont work, but just keep your eyes on it.

On a side note, why didnt you try and relocate the line alltogether? Using flexible hose you could have extended the line a bit and run it out of sight.

Thanks for your input. The hose is rated at 3000 psi, while the fitting is rated for 6000 psi. Colin talked with "John" (the mechanic that did a very similar retrofit to "Squirt" awhile ago and whose last name I do not have off the top of my head). This is the same basic approach that garyk and John used, although Colin was able find an off-the-shelf fitting that mated to the PS pump while I'm not sure John was so lucky.

As with any critical system modification, we'll have to monitor this carefully over the months and years of abuse to come for Focustein. High pressure systems always run the risk of failure/leakage at their weakest points (connections). However, these particular parts are basically intended for heavy industrial equipment (like fork lift hydraulics), so I'm reasonably comfortable with the setup.

And, to a certain degree, longevity depends in part on the operator doing the assembly. I'm glad Colin did this and not me. He's been doing this kind of ish on race vehicles for 20 years.

As for location of the replacement HP hose splice, we opted to minimize the run length of the introduced hose as these things are prone to moving around a bit under load. And this baby is gonna get a lot of loading. Hah!

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by f2t90

So i guess you were having problems with your P/S fluid getting too hot? And this routes it further from the header to keep it cooler.
looks good

Well. No. There have been *many* (innumerable) threads on the Rally/AutoX/Road Racing forum regarding a weakness in the power streering system design. In particular, there is a small plastic washer used at the output port of the power steering pump. Some folks have experienced failures of this washer and leakage of power streering fluid at inopportune moments.

I have already switched to Redline PS fluid, which probably has helped, but with other cars of late experiencing the failure of this washer, I've been a little worried now that the car has 20+ track days on it.

We replaced the entire adapter and this end of the line with the new 2-piece fitting and a metal crush ring.

As for cooling, we'll be putting a small Mocal oil cooler in the return line. Reduced temperatures and (what we believe to be) a more stout fitting should reduce the likelihood of this particular type of failure.

After this, I'm hoping it will be down to fluids, pads, tires, rotors, hubs, bearings, knuckles, rear spindles, light bulbs, and after track beers going forward (at least for a little while).

[elderfeces]

looks very interesting. hope this works out for you in the long run.

[COSDEVSVT]

Since you are using an infrared pyrometer, I suggest you measure and track your pump temp, fluid temp in the reservoir, and the Mocal temp before and after a track session.

I'm interested in your results too.

[supersonicsvt]

The compression fittings to use are the two-ferrule design, such as Swagelok (or Bylok, Gyloc, Circlelok, etc - everyone makes knockoffs). If you use this kind you will have no problems whatsoever. Even McMaster-Carr has their version. Just be sure to watch materials - if your PS hardline is stainless or carbon steel, you will have to use a stainless or carbon steel Swagelok fitting or else it won't "swage" the tubing. You can't use a brass fitting and ferrules on a carbon or stainless tube.

Make sure you debur that tubing ID!!!!

[svtfocusguy]

Originally Posted by mysvtftoy

Well. No. There have been *many* (innumerable) threads on the Rally/AutoX/Road Racing forum regarding a weakness in the power streering system design. In particular, there is a small plastic washer used at the output port of the power steering pump. Some folks have experienced failures of this washer and leakage of power streering fluid at inopportune moments.

I have already switched to Redline PS fluid, which probably has helped, but with other cars of late experiencing the failure of this washer, I've been a little worried now that the car has 20+ track days on it.

We replaced the entire adapter and this end of the line with the new 2-piece fitting and a metal crush ring.

As for cooling, we'll be putting a small Mocal oil cooler in the return line. Reduced temperatures and (what we believe to be) a more stout fitting should reduce the likelihood of this particular type of failure.

After this, I'm hoping it will be down to fluids, pads, tires, rotors, hubs, bearings, knuckles, rear spindles, light bulbs, and after track beers going forward (at least for a little while).

I would like to note that my PS failed in regular city driving 3 times over 2 months. Nothing like making a slow speed turn and being greeted by smoke coming out from the wheel well and under the hood. Fun stuff! That piece looks good and I hope it works well.

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by supersonicsvt

The compression fittings to use are the two-ferrule design, such as Swagelok (or Bylok, Gyloc, Circlelok, etc - everyone makes knockoffs). If you use this kind you will have no problems whatsoever. Even McMaster-Carr has their version. Just be sure to watch materials - if your PS hardline is stainless or carbon steel, you will have to use a stainless or carbon steel Swagelok fitting or else it won't "swage" the tubing. You can't use a brass fitting and ferrules on a carbon or stainless tube.

Make sure you debur that tubing ID!!!!

These are all valid concerns. The 2-ferrule type fitting used in this case is of carbon steel -- mated over the steel line. And yes, that line was deburred and cleaned prior to reassembly. Snapshot was taken just after the snip.

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by COSDEVSVT

Since you are using an infrared pyrometer, I suggest you measure and track your pump temp, fluid temp in the reservoir, and the Mocal temp before and after a track session.

I'm interested in your results too.

Oh yeah. The fluid temp in the tank should definitely get the closest read. Thanks for the reminder!

[HTPerformance]

Nice. This is a cool fix/precaution. I'd like to see how much this "kit" would cost with the cooler as well.

[supersonicsvt]

Coolers can be really cheap for the PS application, even the stacked plate design. Summit has a bunch. Hayden makes a bunch of stacked plate tranny coolers that you can buy at places that sell trailer hitches. $30-$50 will buy you the complete kit.

The hard part is finding the right places for your PS cooler and your oil cooler, without ruining your A/C in summertime Atlanta traffic...........maybe I could screw on one of those big ricey wings and mount my coolers on it!! (finally a use for those things!)

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by supersonicsvt

Coolers can be really cheap for the PS application, even the stacked plate design. Summit has a bunch. Hayden makes a bunch of stacked plate tranny coolers that you can buy at places that sell trailer hitches. $30-$50 will buy you the complete kit.

The hard part is finding the right places for your PS cooler and your oil cooler, without ruining your A/C in summertime Atlanta traffic...........maybe I could screw on one of those big ricey wings and mount my coolers on it!! (finally a use for those things!)

We put the oil cooler right behind the lower grill mesh; it's hanging off a bit of metal that I think is attaching the bumper structure.

The PS cooler will be small, so we figure to attach it behind the opening where the passenger-side fog lamp used to be. We'll just put a little bit of mesh in the fog lamp opening to reduce the likelihood of rock smashage on the cooler.

[Smurf]

That's a good idea for where to put the cooler. I don't have fogs anyways, and that makes sense. Driver side for CAI, pass for cooler(s) . Schweet.

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by 02_smurf

That's a good idea for where to put the cooler. I don't have fogs anyways, and that makes sense. Driver side for CAI, pass for cooler(s) . Schweet.

I gave up on doing any kind of brake cooling ducts. All the options for conduit routing looked like total hacks (to me). So now I have a place to put the PS cooler.

[supersonicsvt]

Originally Posted by mysvtftoy

We put the oil cooler right behind the lower grill mesh; it's hanging off a bit of metal that I think is attaching the bumper structure.

In front of the condenser and radiator, or to the right or left? I was looking around under there and I was thinking of trying the lower grill mesh area just to the driver's side of the plastic duct that routes air from the lower grill into the lower radiator. It is almost a clear shot from there back to a piece of steel that the horns mount to. I can move the horns easily - I just need to keep the oil cooler tucked up tight. What do you think of that area for the same size oil cooler as you used?

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by supersonicsvt

In front of the condenser and radiator, or to the right or left? I was looking around under there and I was thinking of trying the lower grill mesh area just to the driver's side of the plastic duct that routes air from the lower grill into the lower radiator. It is almost a clear shot from there back to a piece of steel that the horns mount to. I can move the horns easily - I just need to keep the oil cooler tucked up tight. What do you think of that area for the same size oil cooler as you used?

Hmmm. Not sure. The car is at Colin's right now. My oil cooler is mounted dead center directly infront of the bottom of the radiator and behind the lower grill mesh. All the plastic ducting is in place, but Colin did cut a couple of openings on the bottom/lower plastic air ducting panel to route the hoses from the sandwich plate.

While the oil filter does block the radiator a bit, I'm seeing lower overall operational coolant temps and MUCH lower absolute coolant temps with the oil cooler vs. no oil cooler.

[mysvtftoy]

Minor update: PS cooler is on hold. We're going to run the car with the stock PS "cooler," Redline PS fluid, and this PS pump adapter/HP line retrofit for now. I'll post any temp readings once I get to the track (July).

[5500]

Any decision yet on whether or not this will be offered in kit form?

[belacyrf]

I'm curious... why this retrofit??? I'm not seeing what benefits you gained from it.

You still have the line directy over the header, you just have some better fittings in place, however instead of one consistent hard-line you have multiple fittings which are now areas for possible failure.

Did you put in a cooler or something?

I'm looking to get this done immediately, but I want to remove and completely relocate everything under the car and out of the way.

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by 5500

Any decision yet on whether or not this will be offered in kit form?

Eventually. But we are going to need to do some testing to see what's what. My track day schedule looks like this: July 6, July 9, July 28, August 11/12. So it'll be awhile before we have any data.

I'm going to drive it around the street a bit and do some limit to limit turning to see if I can get it to leak.

Cooler might go on before track days start; or somewhere in the middle after the first couple. Still TBD.

[mysvtftoy]

Originally Posted by belacyrf

I'm curious... why this retrofit??? I'm not seeing what benefits you gained from it.

You still have the line directy over the header, you just have some better fittings in place, however instead of one consistent hard-line you have multiple fittings which are now areas for possible failure.

Did you put in a cooler or something?

I'm looking to get this done immediately, but I want to remove and completely relocate everything under the car and out of the way.

Cooler inline with the return hose to the tank is *probably* coming next, but I want to see if this mod can take tracking as is without any leaking. You make a good point on the arrangement of the setup, and it has come up before. I'm going to visit with Colin at lunch today to discuss complete removal of the hardline as an option. It'll take some rework, but that's development.

The reasoning for the setup as is was that Colin figured it would get the job done and involve less overall movement under load. It might change, we'll see.

[mysvtftoy]

Some initial track day results added to original post.

[BadIdea]

So is 134 bad?