ZR-1 sets Ring Record

[ashhabib]

Didn't the ZR-1 Set the record for a RWD Production street car??? So wouldn't that be in a completely different class than a race car? Guess what? The 09 Cobalt just set a record at the ring too: 8:22, fastest FWD production at the ring. There are different classes for records. IF we put one of todays race cars on the ring with similar specs to the porsche, guess what: it would beat it.

[OmniFocus]

The Nurburgring is really just the latest automotive marketing fad as much as it is a development tool.

It is fantastic and all, but it is not the end-all of car and driver development as some would have you believe.

Frankly, I don't really think there is any value in comparing Nurburgring lap times between different drivers in different cars... the variables are just too numerous to really bolster credibility. This corporate lap time chest pounding is fluff, and you're all buying into it.

[slidemaster]

Ya if I see 5 second differences do to weather at a 2.5 mile track-= how much do you think that track can vary- in any case its a great accomplishment in my book

[jinstall]

Originally Posted by ashhabib

Didn't the ZR-1 Set the record for a RWD Production street car??? So wouldn't that be in a completely different class than a race car? Guess what? The 09 Cobalt just set a record at the ring too: 8:22, fastest FWD production at the ring. There are different classes for records. IF we put one of todays race cars on the ring with similar specs to the porsche, guess what: it would beat it.

The FWD record should be erased soon. The ZR-1 was for production car period. 8:22 is not shabby at all.

Here it is I will find the rest from when F1 ran the Ring.

http://jalopnik.com/cars/news/back-o...ife-244724.php

YouTube: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=0ceX5Wk-zSY

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=294380095

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/29/n...n-a-bmw-f1-06/

That should be enough to look at.

[jinstall]

Originally Posted by OmniFocus

The Nurburgring is really just the latest automotive marketing fad as much as it is a development tool.

It is fantastic and all, but it is not the end-all of car and driver development as some would have you believe.

Frankly, I don't really think there is any value in comparing Nurburgring lap times between different drivers in different cars... the variables are just too numerous to really bolster credibility. This corporate lap time chest pounding is fluff, and you're all buying into it.

I agree, I would like to see one day, one driver, all cars on the same tires and let the chest thumping stop.

[MattZTS]

Originally Posted by jinstall

Hey Matt, slow down and read some of the thread and then go back and read what you you typed and then MAYBE, just MAYBE, you will see the light. I can admit when I am wrong but like every other thread you enter after me, you just love to tell me how wrong I am, get a life I am not worth you time or your frustration.

i dont love to tell you your wrong. you just never fail to see any other point of view but your own. you go into thread and compare apples to oranges.

a 1983 fully built race car with similar hp and half the weight is gonna be better. you being the avid racer you are should know that. dont you think if your focus weighed 1500lbs it would be faster than it is right now?

as far as suspension goes. i dont know what kind the 956 was running. maybe you do since you brought it up? i know the ZR-1 is running a street suspension. I also know the 956 was running a suspension engineered and designed for the Ring specifically.

also i have read every thread here. dont try to sit there and make it seem like i follow you into every thread to prove you wrong. I was involved in this thread from the start, before you made you 956 commment. for the record I do have a life thats why in 6 years i have only accumulated 5000 posts. I am always out doing things. so dont flatter yourself.


the suspension for the 956 seems pretty advanced to me:
Aluminium monocoque, riveted with integrated safety bar, Kevlar body reinforced with carbon fibre
Front axle: double wishbone with titanium springs, Bilstein shock absorbers fitted externally
Rear axle: double wishbone with titanium springs, Bilstein shock absorbers fitted internally
Hydraulic dual-circuit disc brake with twin pliers and ventilated by wheel carriers

[ZXmurph]

Originally Posted by OmniFocus

The Nurburgring is really just the latest automotive marketing fad as much as it is a development tool.

It is fantastic and all, but it is not the end-all of car and driver development as some would have you believe.

Frankly, I don't really think there is any value in comparing Nurburgring lap times between different drivers in different cars... the variables are just too numerous to really bolster credibility. This corporate lap time chest pounding is fluff, and you're all buying into it.

Well said.......

I would love to drive the Ring, and visit what is obviously a beautiful area. One of my all time motorsport moments was chatting with Boris Said about his Ring 24hr drive with Hans Stuck.

and I will still say, as I have many times here in the past............"developed on the Nurburgring" is the most tired marketing bull**** now worthy of parody.


the ZR1 drive was a great vid, but all of those top tier drives are amazing.

of course, I'll still take Stefan Roser's run in the YellowBeetle for top Ring entertainment...

[Hocky]

Originally Posted by jinstall

The FWD record should be erased soon. The ZR-1 was for production car period. 8:22 is not shabby at all.

Here it is I will find the rest from when F1 ran the Ring.

http://jalopnik.com/cars/news/back-o...ife-244724.php

YouTube: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=0ceX5Wk-zSY

http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?t...nnel=294380095

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/04/29/n...n-a-bmw-f1-06/

That should be enough to look at.

They clearly were not trying to break any records, just cruising around the track. You think an F1 car would actually run 8:34? lol

[jinstall]

Originally Posted by Hocky

They clearly were not trying to break any records, just cruising around the track. You think an F1 car would actually run 8:34? lol

Yes the north and south course combined, that is a good time. F1 Cars are designed for flat to semi-flat tracks, the Ring is anything but flat. Also most of you do not understand the elevation change on the Ring. Ask anyone that has driven it and they will tell you th eelevation change is what makes th etrack. From it's highest point to it's lowet point there is 900 meters of elvation change. Even the GP track is on a slope. the whole track is on a slope.

[jinstall]

Originally Posted by MattZTS

i dont love to tell you your wrong. you just never fail to see any other point of view but your own. you go into thread and compare apples to oranges.

I see alot of point all the time, it is called learning, and the main reason I read post on here.

a 1983 fully built race car with similar hp and half the weight is gonna be better. you being the avid racer you are should know that. dont you think if your focus weighed 1500lbs it would be faster than it is right now? Yes if I was driving it, the more I lighten it, the faster my times, hence my interest in weight reduction-free hp. No that being said and driving a 70 Lotus Europa, my Focus would kill it on a auto-x but not on a road course. The suspension in the Lotus is not set up for the Auto-X. Now mind you because I know what you are going to say, th eZR-1 IS set up for the Nuerburgrig and daily driving but with more interest in the Nuerburgring. Or they would not be out there running the hell out of it and claiming records, the car is set for the Nuernurgring as will be the next Camaro.

as far as suspension goes. i dont know what kind the 956 was running. maybe you do since you brought it up? i know the ZR-1 is running a street suspension. I also know the 956 was running a suspension engineered and designed for the Ring specifically. The suspension was setup for the Ring with the ability to be driven on the road. if it is like the stepup from the C6 to the Z06, then the ZR-1 will beat you to death on the road. The ZR-1 I have not driven yet but plan to do so as soon as I can find one avalible.

also i have read every thread here. dont try to sit there and make it seem like i follow you into every thread to prove you wrong. I was involved in this thread from the start, before you made you 956 commment. for the record I do have a life thats why in 6 years i have only accumulated 5000 posts. I am always out doing things. so dont flatter yourself.

Not flattering myself, I am actually a very humble person, ask anyone that knows me, I would give my last dollar to feed someone and go hungry myself. I have collected 12,000+ only becasue I have asked so many questions and given many replies.


the suspension for the 956 seems pretty advanced to me:
Aluminium monocoque, riveted with integrated safety bar, Kevlar body reinforced with carbon fibre
Front axle: double wishbone with titanium springs, Bilstein shock absorbers fitted externally
Rear axle: double wishbone with titanium springs, Bilstein shock absorbers fitted internally
Hydraulic dual-circuit disc brake with twin pliers and ventilated by wheel carriers

Look at what's on a modern race car nowdays

And all that was designed with a 64kb computer and the ZR-1 was designed with a Quad-Core computer, alot of technology has improved since 1983. Do you have any idea how much carbonfiber was back then? Look how much it is today. People are building with CF in their garages. CF back then was part of NASA and race teams. My god look at the Corvette from 1982 and 1984 compaired to the ZR-1 now. The Space shuttle was high-tech and now it is a school bus. The Shelby Cobra has been the benchmark of all performance cars because it continues to be above and beyond since the 60's, that like 40 years! Yes there are cars that have beat it but on newer technology. The ZR-1 has parts that are far more advanced than the 956. It take months to build a 956 an only 30 hours to build a ZR-1.

The topic of the post is the new ZR-1 set the record for production car and it did for now.

The post on the 956 was to inform that the FASTEST EVER lap was set 25 years ago and still stands on 25 year old technology that was state of the art 25 years ago and is now mainstream.

Do a google search on 1983 and see how far technology has come and how efficent things have become. Then by some chance you will finally see the point I am trying to make on the 1983 record. Start by looking up portable phones as cell phones did not exist back in 1983, neither did the internet.

[Lumadar]

Heh, this thread was intriguing even before the flame war...but now it is just too good to be true! lol.

jinstall: I read everything and I am still not exactly sure what you are trying to get across...it seems as if you are jumping back and forth.

Are you trying to claim that the old Porsche record is special because { this is the part I don't get, since you explain that technology has become mainstream from back then, thus you look to be implying that the the driver was the factor. Obviously, a driver wouldn't make that much difference...so what exactly is your point? It appears vague to my simple eyes...}

[Hocky]

If someone wanted to beat that number, it would be way, way beaten. To think otherwise is pretty ignorant. A full weight production car being 1 minute behind on that long of a track is not a huge gap and that is a true production street car.

Oh, and if the F1 car didn't even run the same track, why are you even comparing it to that record? Again, clearly they were not trying to break the record.

[thepepperman]

Originally Posted by jinstall

The topic of the post is the new ZR-1 set the record for production car and it did for now.

The post on the 956 was to inform that the FASTEST EVER lap was set 25 years ago and still stands on 25 year old technology that was state of the art 25 years ago and is now mainstream.

Do a google search on 1983 and see how far technology has come and how efficent things have become. Then by some chance you will finally see the point I am trying to make on the 1983 record. Start by looking up portable phones as cell phones did not exist back in 1983, neither did the internet.

Look, the problem is that you're trying to make this point: "the fastest lap was set 25 years ago with 25-year old technology". That's a great accomplishment. However we're talking about a modern production car which weighed much more.

Tires/suspension design/technology aside, they are in two different categories. Period. So while the 956 record is definitely nothing to sneeze at, essentially all the people trying to break 'Ring records at the moment are doing it in production cars.

Hocky is right. We haven't heard anything about someone trying to tackle the 956 record in a modern race car, with modern technology. Until we do, I really don't get why you're trying to argue about this. There is no comparison, except for the fact that the overall record is faster than the ZR-1 ran.

[gburner]

This discussion reminds me of the Ali vs. tyson one....it's next to impossible to compare something that far in the past.....the one statement that always ended that one was ,Ali was great in his time............

[OmniFocus]

An important point to remember when referring to "old" technology versus "new" technology.

Any vehicle developed for motorsports is done so without nearly as much compromise for alternate function and built with huge budgets.

What might seem like "old" tech might still be largely untapped by modern production vehicles simply because of real world concerns such as cost and service life.

Race cars don't have to cover a 100,000 mile warranties, handle michigan potholes, return acceptable fuel economy, and occasionaly transport your grandma.

Street cars should never be compared to race cars, even from different eras.

[Ataru]

Originally Posted by jinstall

The post on the 956 was to inform that the FASTEST EVER lap was set 25 years ago and still stands on 25 year old technology that was state of the art 25 years ago and is now mainstream.

So basically........technology wise, that 25 year old race car is on an equal basis to this brand new street legal road car.

........and the race car 25 years ago was still half the weight of the road car today.

Race technology always works its way into road cars. Comparing times from a race car to times from a road car, not matter when the car was made, does not make any sense. See Omni's post above.

[jinstall]

Too tired an buzzed to even think about this.

[Hocky]

In the end, there is almost no such thing as new technology in the automotive business. lol

[MattZTS]

^what everyone else said, but jinstall will never admit he is wrong, or even consider someone else opinion. so its pointless

if you think a spring and damper, on a 25 year old race car isnt anywhere near as advanced as a modern production car. then you are just insane.

[focusdchaos]

But the Porsche wasn't hampered by a leaf spring. If that Corvette had regular suspension out back it might have beaten the P-car by 30 seconds.

[Honkeytonk Monkey]

LOL if anything it needs MORE leafspring!

The monoleaf works just fine

[STFUN]

I'll say one thing, Radical...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...57391&q=&hl=en

360hp V8 Powertec engine.