Brialliance from 6 automakers(Including Detroit)

[sleeperlove]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/01/d...r-oil-burners/

Are they missing VW's sales figures? They can't make enough TDIs afaik.

[6spd_RS]

[CrUziN4L]

eh, so they say now.


But I wouldnt be surprised when the Fiesta comes out, there will be a diesel version soon after. And when the WORLDfocus debuts....a diesel version is offered or promised soon after.

Aside from this, everything previous has pointed to a GO for diesels and just like with so many other "kill" plans, they somehow dissapear and end up coming out. Remember the press talking about how the RS was dead before the 2010 was caught in final testing?

Like when you think you dont want to be with your gf/bf, take a break and realize, 'take it away and prove people do want it'


-chris

[GapBoyPCS]

It doesn't surprise me. Why push diesels when these automakers have hybrids in their lineups that are supposed to achieve similar fuel economy? It'd be shooting oneself in the foot.

[CrUziN4L]

eh i dont think so....a lot of people wouldnt want a deisel period, especially the loopy forgetful type who would mistakenly put gasoline in their car when they are frazzeled.

which are A LOT of drivers on the road.

[Rockefela]

Originally Posted by CrUziN4L

eh, so they say now.


But I wouldnt be surprised when the Fiesta comes out, there will be a diesel version soon after. And when the WORLDfocus debuts....a diesel version is offered or promised soon after.

Aside from this, everything previous has pointed to a GO for diesels and just like with so many other "kill" plans, they somehow dissapear and end up coming out. Remember the press talking about how the RS was dead before the 2010 was caught in final testing?

Like when you think you dont want to be with your gf/bf, take a break and realize, 'take it away and prove people do want it'


-chris

Ford has never said they want to bring diesels, on the other hand they keep saying that they are fully in the EcoBoost and Hybrid boat because they think they can get diesel mpg numbers from them and have no plans for diesels. So far the Fusion hybrid is the only one to come close but still not completely there.

[Rockefela]

Originally Posted by GapBoyPCS

It doesn't surprise me. Why push diesels when these automakers have hybrids in their lineups that are supposed to achieve similar fuel economy? It'd be shooting oneself in the foot.

Too bad those hybrids have yet to come near comparable diesel numbers....

These same manufactures who say that nobody would pay the extra cost of around $1500 per vehicle for a modern diesel then put out Hybrids that cost $2500-$4000 more..... sense, got any?

[CrUziN4L]

best hybrid on teh road, is on point....and giddyup like no other hybrid for the money.



U can quote me, u can down what i say....diesels are coming from Ford and soon in AutomotiveProduction terms. (within the next 5yrs, wouldnt be suprised within the next 3 to see one engine).

[Rockefela]

Originally Posted by CrUziN4L

eh i dont think so....a lot of people wouldnt want a deisel period, especially the loopy forgetful type who would mistakenly put gasoline in their car when they are frazzeled.

which are A LOT of drivers on the road.

Seems like ALOT of people would disagree, again VW's latest consistant diesel sales would say otherwise.

We're currently shopping for a new vehicle through a lease broker, when I brought up that I wish VW would bring over the diesel Tiguan she laughed and mentioned I'm not the only one. She says that people are asking her every single day for diesel versions of almost every vehicle she sells and especially for diesel Tiguans. She has to keep turning people away to other brands because they don't sell the diesel....

[CrUziN4L]

Originally Posted by Rockefela

Seems like ALOT of people would disagree, again VW's latest consistant diesel sales would say otherwise.

We're currently shopping for a new vehicle through a lease broker, when I brought up that I wish VW would bring over the diesel Tiguan she laughed and mentioned I'm not the only one. She says that people are asking her every single day for diesel versions of almost every vehicle she sells and especially for diesel Tiguans. She has to keep turning people away to other brands because they don't sell the diesel....

Im not saying there are A LOT of people wanting diesels....especially VW loyals.

But in terms of the entire market, there are even that dont even consider diesels....for many reasons including what i stated. And its not even like they "steer away" (pun) from or fear them, just that they dont consider them period. People like routine in America, just like if there was a sudden insurgent of gasoline cars overseas...people would aim for the diesels.


-chris

[Rockefela]

Everytime I talk cars with normal IJAC's they bring up diesels to me a lot lately. The demand is alot higher than most think..... People right now want MPG's and they know diesel is a quick way to get there. Many people also like the fact that they can use biodiesel in many of these cars if they want to be "green".

[CrUziN4L]

question...what other brands is she turning them away too for, VW offers the most in its class i think

cant see customers willing to buy a car 10gs more just for a diesel (audi/merc/bmw/etc)

[CrUziN4L]

Originally Posted by Rockefela

Everytime I talk cars with normal IJAC's they bring up diesels to me a lot lately. The demand is alot higher than most think..... People right now want MPG's and they know diesel is a quick way to get there. Many people also like the fact that they can use biodiesel in many of these cars if they want to be "green".

oh def....want for diesels has been the highest in a long time im not denying.


im all for it, aside from my father bringing me up with the comments in the car behind a mercedes "****ing diesels, smell like ****" Im all for it and it will come soon enough....sooner than other ideas on the horizon which are really close (hydrogen, more electric, super hybrids, etc)


-chris

[Rockefela]

Originally Posted by CrUziN4L

question...what other brands is she turning them away too for, VW offers the most in its class i think

cant see customers willing to buy a car 10gs more just for a diesel (audi/merc/bmw/etc)

She's not turning them to other diesels because nobody offers them, she ends up offering them other cars from other brands because many people only wanted the Tiguan for diesel. Many people google Tiguan and see the European diesels and think they're sold here.

We are basically one of those people, we want something smaller than our Murano and would love a diesel Tiguan. We'll probably end up with a Rogue instead of a gas Tiguan because its a better deal. We would have paid a little more for the Diesel Tiguan.

[CrUziN4L]

oooo gotcha

yeh i was in the same boat when i was the broker for my parents, like i have been since i have been 19, not to mention other relatives. Looked at the Tiguan, Rogue, Murano, SanteFe, etc. While the last SanteFe was a good car for us, it sucks in mileage and the new wasnt much better and too big for my mom, Dad needed something to house his big self...

ended up on the CRV maxxed out with a super deal (on the lot, 8months old, crazy deal). Awesome lil car, insane brakes...not bad handling, pretty good mileage and awesome stereo/uber big interior environment. I would suggest looking at it....this is the one we chose over just forgeting mileage and getting a Murano mid level optioned, it just 'fit better' and my mom loves it as do i, my dad, my bro, and my sis.

tho i would not drive one, even tho when i was driving it the other day and pushing it in the corners, i was totally thinking "firmer shocks, 1inch drop, wider tires, chip, tuned awd, boost?.......wait, hell no"

[Rockefela]

Nah, CRV is waaay out of the equation. Too cheap looking compared to the Murano SL we have with Leather. Not my words, ironically our neighbors just had their Murano totalled because of an accident that wasn't their fault and they said the same thing when they went to look at the CRV. They and the wife also hate the look of the current CRV.

Again I know its a very decent ride, but its just not for everyone.

[FORDSVTPARTS]

Originally Posted by Rockefela

Too bad those hybrids have yet to come near comparable diesel numbers....

These same manufactures who say that nobody would pay the extra cost of around $1500 per vehicle for a modern diesel then put out Hybrids that cost $2500-$4000 more..... sense, got any?

Besides the fact that the Diesel doesn't have the huge bank of batteries hanging around that'll need to be recycled and disposed of at some point.

Give me a TDI over a hybrid any day, If Ford has a Diesel Focus/Fiesta when it's time for a new car I'll be buying one.

As for the hybrid? Do not want.

[SilverSVT]

Originally Posted by sleeperlove

Are they missing VW's sales figures? They can't make enough TDIs afaik.

Thats one line up of cars....you cannot base the whole market on one type of car.

If there was a demand for it, The manufactures would be addressing it and not dropping their diesel engine plans.

[MrBirdman330]

While Diesel car popularity is growing mainly for the VW Diesels since they're very clean the problem is that Diesel still has a dirty cloud over it from past Diesels and with how California acts especially towards Truckers and Semi's its going to be hard to convince others that Diesel can be clean. If money was properly invested by other automakers like Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler and GM as well as Ford they too could have a clean Diesel car. Diesel engines unfortunately have a grimy filthy past and people can not forget. Much of it is that hurdle there which needs to be cleared.

[OmniFocus]

Originally Posted by SilverSVT

If there was a demand for it, The manufactures would be addressing it and not dropping their diesel engine plans.

That is just it though... how do they know if there is a demand for it or not if don't have any product to test demand?

Catch-22, really.

[jinstall]

Let me let you all in on a little secret, this is for the US only. If they did this outside the US the sales for each of these manufacturers would DIE. More than 50% of vehicles sold in Europe are diesel. The problem lies in US marketing. I own a diesel and would never part wiht it for a gas or hybred.

[Rockefela]

Interesting reading:

Hybrids Stumble While Diesels Surge

The new-car sales figures for June must be a cause for concern for fans of hybrids. But at the same time they're very encouraging for diesel proponents. You don't want to read too much into one month's sales numbers, but the numbers do tell a story.

Ever since gasoline prices tumbled from their highs of last year, sales of hybrids have tumbled along with them. And while most automakers are shunning diesel engines right now, Volkswagen turned in sales numbers in June that should make everybody sit up and pay attention.

So, are we going to see a battle royale between hybrids and diesels? It's too early to tell, but here's what's going on in the market at this snapshot in time.


The number of hybrids in the market keeps growing and growing, but there are more losers than winners. There are now 23 different models of hybrids in the American market. But most of them are turkeys that are selling very poorly.

For example, Lexus only sold 31 units of the LS hybrid last month. Chevrolet only sold 84 units of the Silverado two-mode hybrid. Nissan sold 666 units of its Altima hybrid. These are ridiculously low numbers.

And I'm not just cherry picking the worst examples. The hybrid market really isn't going anywhere. Hybrids still only account for 3% of all car sales and the Prius still accounts for half of them. Take the Prius out, and hybrid sales are truly inconsequential.

Meanwhile, almost every automaker has postponed plans to bring out diesel engines. GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have smaller displacement diesels that are ready to go, but have been put on the back burner for now.

Mercedes, BMW, Audi and VW are the only ones really pushing diesels in the American market, and as the June sales report shows, VW has quite a story to tell.

Last month, diesels accounted for 80 percent of Jetta Sportwagen sales, 40 percent of Jetta Sedan sales, and nearly 30 percent of Touareg sales. Overall, diesels accounted for over a quarter of VW sales last month.

That was for only one month of sales and one month does not a sales trend make. But those numbers have to be mighty encouraging to the people who are pushing for diesels.

Of course, diesel prices have fallen along with gas prices. And both those prices will definitely fluctuate in the future. But this shows how fuel prices have an extraordinary effect on the type of technology that will sell in the showrooms. Indeed, it shows the trouble automakers will have meeting fuel economy standards since they are at the mercy of a determining factor that is completely out of their control.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/02/a...-john-mcelroy/

[biscuitninja]

A few years back the old Jetta Wagons were getting something like 60-70mpg's with just nominal driving techniques. In my opinions the diesels have gotten LESS fuel efficient over the last few years. I would have gotten a diesel, but currently nobody makes a small fun little compact 4 door. They do have jetta, but it wasn't available 10 months ago.

-bix

[MrBirdman330]

^ much of the problem lies with the Govt and the EPA putting higher emissions restrictions on Diesel engines and running a cleaner weaker Diesel Fuel that doesn't burn as well resulting in lesser fuel economy.

[slidemaster]

They are much cleaner than before- BTW we did a training deal with a huge group of VW owners and VW was there with pre production cars including

GTI diesel

At the Ford end we have seen a huge swing in purchase modivators over the past few years- huge impact last year with the fuel prices! Hybrids are working well and seem to not have any reliability issues- infact due to regenerative braking, rotors and brakes are lasting much longer. Ford is terminating its diesel relationship with international and Cummins will be the new Ford player very soon