why the Focus community sucks....

[Random Select]

The scene has been stagnant here in America for a long time now. No hype until the MKIII comes out.

[focaljet-1]

I just had time to read the entire thread. Thanks to Mitch for posting it, and thanks to all who provided their take.

I realized from the beginning that the title was meant to be somewhat of a rally cry, and not a wholesale damning of the entire Focus community. I appreciate those that understood that as well.

A lot of what has been said is the truth. But, like most debates, the real crux probably lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes.

While not exactly Focus-related:

I will be interested in seeing just how many people jump on the Fiesta when it arrives. People have been whining about the Euro Focus not making it to these shores. Well, the Fiesta should be about as close to a Euro Ford that has been sold here since the 2000 Focus.

Yet, when I post Fiesta stuff here, it doesn't garner much attention. We've launched a Fiesta site/forum, and while it is slowly picking up steam, most FJ'rs ignore it.

The Fiesta will only be offered here (initially) with a 1.6L engine. Providing the engine bay will accommodate it, then there is no reason we shouldn't see 2.0, 2.3 (and more) engine swaps being done. You know, just like the Hondas.

Will it happen?

I have no idea. The '06-'08 (U.S.) Honda Fit accepts the K20. Of course there were a couple of mad scientists that did it when the car first came out, but after that… nothing. Oscar Jackson developed a supercharger for the car, and very few of them have been sold. They have no plans to adapt the kit to the '09+ cars.

What's the deal? Are B-Segment cars just "too cheap" to be taken seriously by today's enthusiasts? And, is this the same fate that has befallen the Focus?

I find that hard to believe, because of the money I've seen put into older VWs and Hondas. Many times 2-3X what the cars originally cost new. So, what drives those people to do that?

In 10 years will people be restoring MkI Foci and putting tons of $ into them? I just don't see it happening.

If Ford brings the next gen RS here, but it costs $30-35K+, how many of you will buy it?
Will it be too expensive? Or, will there be other cars in that price range that you'd rather buy?

Lots of questions, I know.

[MichaelXi]

Originally Posted by focaljet-1

In 10 years will people be restoring MkI Foci and putting tons of $ into them? I just don't see it happening.

I never caught your take on my "Car Lover's Lament" that I posted here in Pit Stop about a week ago or so... I'm really curious about Your feelings on it.
It was an inspired piece, done on little sleep, and done from the heart, but I do understand that in the "future" at least SOME people will look back at these cars and want to be working with them.
You know those Amphibious cars from 40+ or so years ago...? They have a Hard-Core, albeit small following to this day. Same with the Edsel. I HOPE that the Focus carries that Love with it into the Future. I LOVE mine SO Much, but I can't speak for anyone but me.
I've modded my Focus to the extent of my budget, shy of coming into some surprise cash. IF I had "Surprise Cash", I'd "Fix Up" my Focus before buying anything New. Next, I'd buy my wife a Fiesta 5 door. After that, I'd have to see what the market was offering to decide if I'd tackle a new Focus, or a Fiesta instead, as a Project/Race car. Of course, this is hypothetical, but I do know that there ARE people out there with expendable income... I just HOPE that enough of them think like I do.
I do all that I can to promote the Focus, and I'm actually surprised at how many new members I've managed to bring to the forum through casual meetings or highway sightings with my FJ vinyl. As FJ1 questions, "What do these people actually THINK and FEEL?" The Focus has always inspired driving Fun in anything above a base SPI model, and I suspect the Fiesta will do so as well. Are the people who have bought/will buy them fickle and shallow, or will they stand by their choices? I have no idea. People puzzle me in general. I am Hopeful that there's a bright future, but I've also lost a little Hope in people in General. I'd chalk it up to age, but as much as I try to step back and look through a different window, I still see a greater quantity of people being more shallow in all aspects of life.
I know I've not answered many questions and I'm rambling, but this topic is meaningful.

[Ollie18]

Originally Posted by focaljet-1

If Ford brings the next gen RS here, but it costs $30-35K+, how many of you will buy it? Will it be too expensive? Or, will there be other cars in that price range that you'd rather buy?

I personally think they should give it a shot with a limited run of 2000 or so vehicles for the US and see how they sell. I seriously think that stock will be exhausted faster than you would think...and if this worked out, great...have another run the following year for 3500 vehicles...And if they do not sell, ok, at least you have hard data why the US is getting he shaft. Yes, it is a niche vehicle and it needs to be treated as such. Specs wise and history wise, I do not see a reason people would be opposed to it.

The MKIV R32 for example was send over here with 5000 units, and if I remember correctly when looking at the internal data, 1200 sold prior to the car even hitting shores, and 3500 units sold within the first 2 months. All I am saying is, I do not have concerns that this cannot be done with the RS as well.

But maybe I am mistaken...who knows....

[MichaelXi]

Ollie, I agree. Chrysler has its problems, but they DID have success with their "niche" vehicles. Sort of like "Halo cars", but not at the Extreme Top Price echelon. Only make a Limited quantity, Hype the Bejeezus out of it, make Sure it Lives Up to the Hype, and watch what happens. Worst case scenario, you've created a Low-Selling Classic. best Case, you've made a Bunch of enthusiasts Very Happy and brought in more Peripheral sales as well. If approached properly, it couldn't help but be a "Win". You'd have to be an Idiot to approach it incorrectly.... Ford, If you're listening.... DO NOT Release a vehicle that does not live up to the hype. The RS badge is Serious Biz.... more than SVT, IMO. It has MUCH More History, and Dropping the Ball Would/SHOULD be Embarrassing.
I cannot currently afford one, but in Limited Quantity, I'm sure they could sell well.
I cannot afford an SRT-4 or a WRX either, but they both sold just fine....

[TheBlueHornet]

Originally Posted by S. on Da 5

I blame Ford.


If Ford were to bring a true European Focus to the USA I'm sure there would be much more enthusiasm for the Focus.


As it stands Ford appears to have been trying to choke the Focus enthusiast in the USA to death.

Truth.

[blueovaldave]

Originally Posted by Ollie18

I personally think they should give it a shot with a limited run of 2000 or so vehicles for the US and see how they sell. I seriously think that stock will be exhausted faster than you would think...and if this worked out, great...have another run the following for 3500 vehicles...And if they do not sell, ok, at least you have hard data why the US is getting he shaft. Yes, it is a niche vehicle and it needs to be treated as such. Specs wise and history wise, I do not see a reason people would be opposed to it.

The MKIV R32 for example was send over here with 5000 units, and if I remember correctly when looking at the internal data, 1200 sold prior to the car even hitting shores, and 3500 units sold within the first 2 months. All I am saying is, I do not have concerns that this cannot be done with the RS as well.

But maybe I am mistaken...who knows....

This is where Ford has missed the boat time and time again over the years. Most of the American manufactures have done the same thing time and time again. They produce cars that sell well but don't provide big revenue or they over do the production numbers and drop the cars when they stop selling.
Either way it is a corporate problem and not so much a consumer problem. American manufactures have historically been hung up on V8's and assumed that no one wanted 4 cylinders.

[syntheticGT]

Originally Posted by Redlight

But, through all that, I still am the unofficial guy who plans the meets....


I don't even want to get into the BS about the East coast meets we tried that failed time after time...


Going on with the rest of the OP's topic, I've said it before and I'll say it again...

"WHERE HAVE ALL THE FOCUS LEGENDS GONE AND WHY ARE THERE NO MORE?"

dave

uh...lol?

I have been making the roundy-rounds with the Lonestar crew since I began here almost a decade ago. I coined the term "Lonestar Flake" describing EXACTLY what you posted.

I post up numerous opportunities every year for Texas Foci to get together at shows/events and NO ONE shows up.

I host a once a year "OG" meet that encompasses all us old focus farts and even lets the new guys play. That always brings 20-30 people.

There is ALWAYS 1-3 months notice on any event I post here...and still no one bothers aside from the usual handful.

So to come on here and say you are the only one is a slap in the face to me.

The few of us that are still active in Lonestar have moved on to other vehicles...but we always seem to come back to our roots here. I will never leave FJ...and I will never stop posting various events.

I have tried to get things restarted and it always just fizzles out. Why? Because Focus enthusiasts are SCARED. Scared of what other enthusiasts will say about their cars. Scared because they dont want to get their feelings hurt. Haters will always hate...no matter the make.

There is ONE person in Texas that is keeping hope alive...and that car's future is on the chopping block right now. That person is Counterfiend...Brent. Everywhere I see his car posted I see nothing but praise. People saying "Holy ****...thats a focus???" Why? Because he isnt AFRAID to come out of the woodworks and make a name for himself.

bleh...iim just ranting now.

Tell some of the other Lonestar people to pull their heads out of the closet and come to freekin meet once in awhile.

[slidemaster]

Im going to talk about Rons post on the Fiesta. I am of the opinion that a majority of the jetters really think its not going to be as good a car, as the press and others believe. For me personally it would be much more desireable with a 2.0 model.

Historically we have seen so many wimped out cars here, while Europe gets the good stuff. We all know thats changing, fast. Its popular however to bash and be negative, play the wait and see role. Although I didnt apply for one of the cars, they were brought in here in Pt Hueneme and many of the media cars including a buddys were around for a while before reassignment. From a drivers standpoint the chassis is stiff (a good thing) but to get the power to weight to be responsive would take a few grand. Thats in my mind not cost effective for the budget enthusiast, which I still am.

[Ataru]

Oh, I am completely interested in the Fiesta and I do believe it will be a great car. I do want to buy one when they release in the US, but I haven't been active on the Fiesta side much since finances make it difficult to commit to buying one at release, plus I'm still really active on the Focus side of things.

[Jasonof2000]

I like the Fiesta and want it to succeed but I'm not in the market for a new car so I'm just not interested in it.

[Blkmamba]

Ford needs to stop making Mustang Variants have some type of performance model for the Focus,Fiesta,Fusion ,you still cant have a manual trans V6 fusion ! At least GT versions of these cars as all of them cant be SVT vehicles. Then you will see a real rise in web activity .

[belacyrf]

Originally Posted by mysvtftoy

I resemble that remark. Sometimes wings find themselves on OTHER cars too. As you well know.

Hahaha... that's why i added "big bling", which is NOT you Unless you added chrome 30lb wheels to your track monster LOL

[wilko]

Originally Posted by Blkmamba

Ford needs to stop making Mustang Variants have some type of performance model for the Focus,Fiesta,Fusion ,you still cant have a manual trans V6 fusion ! At least GT versions of these cars as all of them cant be SVT vehicles. Then you will see a real rise in web activity .

No need to stop making Musclestang variants, but I agree that they needs to have some more sportiness in the rest of the lineup.

Sorry. OT.

[MachFive]

If you're not interested in a novel, stop while you're ahead.

Mitch, thanks for putting this topic out there and having the guts to ask the question. It’s a vital one, especially approaching the ten-year anniversary of the Focus in the US.

I’ve been trying to find a comparable car to mirror the Focus’ situation. And the best I could think of is the Contour. I’m certainly no expert on the Contour/Mondeo aftermarket, and the only real exposure to them I have in large groups is at Carlisle. But years ago, they’d draw 30-40 cars. For the last 2 or 3 years, there’s only been a handful. This year I don’t remember seeing one. The Contour came to the US in ‘95, so it’s got a 5-year head start compared to the Focus, but I don’t see the same result happening to us. Think about how many people from 2000 or 2001 that bought Sentra Spec-V’s or Mazdaspeed Proteges are still active on their respective owner’s forums (or still own their cars). I’d venture to bet there are not nearly as many as there are here. Granted, that’s a credit to Ron and FocalJet itself, but it also speaks to the niche the Focus has carved for itself.

See, as much as I respect the Honda and VW crowd, I am glad we’re not them, for lots of differing reasons. A majority of VW people seem to be into the “I’m trying so hard to not look like I’m trying” and the honda guys seem like they’re bouncers whose job it is to refuse admittance. Focus owners, whether they kind of fell into buying the car (like I did all those years ago), or they chose it, I feel like we know we’re different. Not better, not worse. That’s kind of the curse of buying an American economy car that’s not really that American. We’re not accepted, and some people never get over it. But the ones that do, they’re the ones that become trailblazers and “legends”.

It seems to me that there are still plenty of people pushing the envelope and that have always tried to not just to the cookie-cutter style. I just wonder if the proportions are a little skewed because the Focus is a car that’s so common. I think it might be a matter of perception as much as anything. So many people follow the same paths, because those paths are so well-worn and obvious, it gets hard to see much else. And trailblazers seem to get drowned out because the number of “slap on a kit, call it a day” owners far outnumber them. I think one cause for this is the (decidedly dwindling) large aftermarket. Think about if there were no off-the-shelf parts available. Everyone would have to have things custom-made and therefore things would be far less homogenized. Call what we have in the US a “specific aftermarket”, maybe. It’s big, but really, there’s not a huge range of choices. Also, I think cost plays a part in who buys what. 10 years ago when I bought my first Focus, I bought what I could afford, and tried to get things as cheaply and with as little headache as I could. Now that I can afford some better quality, and have grown up, my tastes have grown accordingly. I compare it to jazz. Or wine. But that’s beside the point.

Anyway, my point is that the focus community doesn’t suck. And I know that’s not what you meant Mitch. I do feel there could certainly be more diversity in what people do to cars, sure, but that doesn’t make their passion any less important. It just means they need to see what else is out there and know it’s possible. And I guess that’s the point of this whole post to begin with.

[focaljet-1]

The thing is, Ford will do what it needs to do to MAKE MONEY. As much as we would like to see the RS here, even in low volumes, there has to be a business case for it.

I'm not saying there isn't a business case, but on those type of cars, it's difficult. Even in the best of times, which is certainly not now. We are not in the economic climate to support a "halo" compact car.

And the reason they make so many Mustang variants are… they sell. And the reason that the Ford Racing catalog has a million times more Mustang than Focus parts… they sell. And at significantly higher dollar amounts.

[ZX3autoxtasy]

Originally Posted by focaljet-1

The thing is, Ford will do what it needs to do to MAKE MONEY. As much as we would like to see the RS here, even in low volumes, there has to be a business case for it.

I'm not saying there isn't a business case, but on those type of cars, it's difficult. Even in the best of times, which is certainly not now. We are not in the economic climate to support a "halo" compact car.

And the reason they make so many Mustang variants are… they sell. And the reason that the Ford Racing catalog has a million times more Mustang than Focus parts… they sell. And at significantly higher dollar amounts.

I agree, and have harped what you're saying about the RS alot. It's a great car no doubt, but to the American public (and even myself) it may not be worth the price tag.

You're in rough territory once the price kicks up to $30k...

[o2_designs]

MN BOOST crew might have something in the works...

[blueovaldave]

Originally Posted by ZX3autoxtasy

but to the American public (and even myself) it may not be worth the price tag.

You're in rough territory once the price kicks up to $30k...

This is what is wrong with the Focus/Compact community as a whole.

It is too expensive, it cost too much, I don't want to spend that much.

Some of it has to do with our current economic climate right now but this was a problem even before the economy tanked.

As most of the tuners/shops that don't work on as many Focus as they used to can tell you they got out of the Focus business because everyone got so "cheap" with what they wanted to do. With most of the "go fast parts" being low volume parts it is more expensive to cultivate and build the Focus business. The other thing that killed us was Ford chaning power plants every 3 or 4 years. The Honda stuff stays around for some time and then gradually evolves.

[frdfocszx3]

Ford NA is to blame. I waited for a vehicle that I would love like I did the ZX3, but I just couldn't wait any longer. The 09 wrx finally did it for me. The fiesta is just too small for me. I see them both around here everyday. The MK 2 focus are just beautiful to look at. If I could trade in my wrx for an RS or even the ST, I would do it. It would be a big time hasle here in Norway. Here's a 2008 wrx, remember 08 was not the 09 monster. 1 dollar is about 6.1 kr.
http://www.finn.no/finn/car/object?finnkode=15631713
That's about $87,000! For a 2008. There's 25% tax on everything out here.

[blackbird]

Originally Posted by boostedzx3

Now that being said after all was said and done i've never got such a sour taste from all the *******s of the sport compact world. I've never been in a car where just driving down the road you get flicked off for no reason or the thumbs down. So much disrespect and arrogance and ignorance on that part.

That gave me a little chuckle. I know what you mean, but try driving a Neon of SRT-4 variety. Of all my cars and seeing what happens when riding in my friends Neon, it has became the loathed/liked import-type car in recent years. Loathed by everyone not driving one and liked by the former ricer crowd that has moved on from their first import to a second-hand SRT-4. But that's the subject of another thread. My SVTF is largely anonymous to all but the real auto enthusiast which is just the way I like it.


I think a lot of the feelings that have been expressed so far come down to one's perspective they develop over time after driving a car, not necessarily due to the car itself or even the owner base and community as a whole. What I mean by that is even when the Focus was new there wasn't a ton of aftermarket support compared to other compact front-drivers and people complained. The meets in some parts of the country may not have been as big and some people wanted them to be bigger. And so on and so on, which resulted in a perception developing in the back of a lot of people's minds that the car (Focus) wasn't as popular as other makes or those other groups were always doing something better, many times overlooking what good things we did have.

Small comments along those lines being constantly reiterating over time has led some people to start feeling that way. With regards to the '05 and '08 refresh, there's a lot of people who own those cars and like them, yet many first generation owners don't care as much for them. Do the new owners lack any enthusiasm that the older crowd had? Probably not, but it's that personal perception of what the Focus is, was, and what it has become.


Ford screwed up by pinching pennies and not supporting the car the best they could and there are lots of other reasons the Focus may not have turned out to be as "popular" in some crowds as other cars. Then again maybe it was smart of them as they're still in business and not needing government assistance, but in our eyes of some they let us (the enthusiasts) down. I could care less as I can't change the past and I'm hopeful for they have in the pipeline.

I still love driving my Focus just like a lot of the other cars I own, many of which would make people scratch there heads and wonder "why the heck would he be driving that..." I still like the group of people that this community has drawn together and I could care less if there weren't any giant video productions or super-sized meets with tons of people that stand around their imports in some parking lot, don't know each other, and can do nothing but talk trash. I'm not trying to generalize all imports and import owners being like that, but at many of those "big" type of events you seem to run into quite a few that aren't so much an enthusiast but instead just want to be part of the crowd.
As long as there remains a group of like-minded people who enjoy the Focus for what it is I'll stick around online forums like FJ and go to local meets. Even if they died out completely I'd still enjoy driving my SVTF. Recently I've even starting some small modifications that I want to do to make the car better for me.

By all means, if you've grown tired of the community, the car, or whatever, then maybe it is time to move on to another car or find another passion in life. People change and car communities change over time as well, but I have a feeling that a lot of the angst over the Focus community and where we're at now comes from the person in the mirror and less so from the community itself.

[ZX3TUNING]

I'm STOKED to see Ron chime in on this...

The focus community, as far is its interactions between members, the commitment it's members have to one another and even the number of people who remain part of the community after getting rid of the car is second to none in my mind! that was never something i was taking a shot at. i've heard some pretty awesome stories over the years of Focus owners going above and beyond to help another out... while i'm sure that happens all over it seems to get drowned out in the VW/Honda/etc worlds.

one thing that sort of never caught on here was the whole feature car articles that other communities have done. I know Ron is a busy guy and probably has a lot on his plate, but there are more than enough serious and highly regarded members and staff that it could work. back when Ron and I used to butt-heads and ClubFocus was still around i tried really hard to have a "Focus of the Month" article... Not a rigz user-voted posting but a written Article with a photoshoot. Granted there were sometimes many months between months but with the size of the community now, i don't see that as an issue any more. like most of the regulars, i haven't been to the front page in years, but it's what every new potential member and Visitor see's! Having a showcase like that, that can show trends and help document car that have been built by people/shops/mad-scientists that don't normally post or are not even members..... Slowpokes TTV8 Focus comes to mind! it's far more interesting to me and i'm sure many others than a popularity contest that is our current FOTM... not that we should get rid of that but a Feature car would be a fun idea to try out!

just an idea to bring some life back into our world.
i think a lot of people would be pretty stoked about hearing the story behind some projects rather than some pics and a list of mods.

[Rockefela]

Originally Posted by focaljet-1

I will be interested in seeing just how many people jump on the Fiesta when it arrives. People have been whining about the Euro Focus not making it to these shores. Well, the Fiesta should be about as close to a Euro Ford that has been sold here since the 2000 Focus.

Yet, when I post Fiesta stuff here, it doesn't garner much attention. We've launched a Fiesta site/forum, and while it is slowly picking up steam, most FJ'rs ignore it.

The Fiesta will only be offered here (initially) with a 1.6L engine. Providing the engine bay will accommodate it, then there is no reason we shouldn't see 2.0, 2.3 (and more) engine swaps being done. You know, just like the Hondas.

Sadly more and more news keeps coming out that Ford has basically had too much time to toy with the Fiesta for the US market and we won't be getting the same car. So if the Fiesta fails don't blame us, I guess we'll have to wait for the next gen Focus and hope it isn't fubar'd too since its supposedly being designed to be released simultaneously in US & EU...

Might be another case of them pulling the switcharoo on us and then saying "See, nobody wants euro cars..."

I'm praying I'm wrong, especially since the under $20k market right now is pretty sad for anything but pure transport...

[ZX3TUNING]

Originally Posted by blackbird

.....

Having been to a lot of HUGE VW meets, i can say that most of them are not like that and most people are super stoked to walk around talk to people about their cars, what they have done and bounce ideas back and forth between like minded enthusiasts. The Honda guys all seem to be quite confrontational with each other and more so with outsiders... the phrase "what you don't know?! that's a JDM turn signal lens!" or something equally snide seems to be common place in that world.

The fact that there are numerous HUGE meets annually and in some cases 10-20+ years running in the VW world is a testament to how strong of a community it is. even if it is just a game of "oneupsmanship" that fact that people continually show up in the hundreds and thousands in some cases to see it is pretty amazing there are still a TON of non VW cars that show up to these events, everything from BWMs and Mercs to the odd Focus or even crazy cars you'd never expect!

[TheBlueHornet]

The Focus scene gets no respect. Even the 'high end' US model (SVTF) is a dog. Sure, its got options and looks good, but is severely lacking in the power that Ford so generously donated to its brothers the Lightning and Cobra. In a time when the WRX's, STIs, EVOs, and SRT4s were just starting to emerge, it simply makes the car a joke. You cant compete. When I had my SVTF blown and modded, putting serious hurt down on local competition, it wouldnt matter who I could beat with it because it was still 'Just a Focus'.
Mention the RS and get laughed at, because your favorite car brand isnt bright enough to introduce competition into the tuner segment.
Argue business all you want. Ford is digging out of the ****ter not only due to a past lack of quality, but the reputation it has gained. Lets say Im an impressionable 16-25 year old and Im ready to take the plunge and buy a new car. All my friends who are into cars have their own opinions, and being the impressionable young adult that I am, their opinions will have an influence upon what I purchase. I cant afford the sport models, but my friends are going to rave about the high end performance four bangers they have or wish they had. But I say 'Well, I think the Focus looks nice' Thats when you get laughed out of the room, and buy a Lancer or GTI etc.
The entry level market is looking towards the performance vehicles like rock stars, actors/actresses, etc. Something famous, something to aspire to. Maybe youll mod your car to be more like that one. Maybe youll dream of saving your money and moving up a peg. These kids dont want Mustangs. They want to wear bitch pants, Luke Skywalker haircuts, and fitted caps with neon patterns that dont match their shoes. There is no shining beacon of 'Hip Ford Performance' to dream of. Just your Dads Mustang.

And that, my friends, is why the US Focus is dead, and I won't be purchasing a 5th.