Here ya go... update on the race car! 56k no way

[sleeperlove]

Originally Posted by Terrible1

2nd- I'm getting fast and aggressive enough to where the Hawk HP+ front pads are starting to show their limits. They held well for all 4 sessions but lacked the initial bite and torque necessary to keep my confidence in them. What pad do you all recommend upgrading to from the HP+

All the work you've done and you have been on HP+ pads
You should be at least on blues or whatever the one compound 1 temp range above that is.
Perhaps carbotech xp10s or 12s in the front.

I just finished running through a set of blues on the front and HP+ on the rear and it was great for my car, although I have probably ~140 whp less than you.

[BlkThunder]

How bad for your aero would it be if you used a svt foglight-ish opening for brake ducts?

[Terrible1]

Originally Posted by sleeperlove

All the work you've done and you have been on HP+ pads
You should be at least on blues or whatever the one compound 1 temp range above that is.
Perhaps carbotech xp10s or 12s in the front.

I just finished running through a set of blues on the front and HP+ on the rear and it was great for my car, although I have probably ~140 whp less than you.

Yeah I guess I've been lucky huh
They've held up remarkably well but I'm in need of a much more aggressive pad though.

[ZX3TUNING]

and bigger brakes!

check your PM shane!

[brads03zx3]

Yes, please get those HP+ pads off the car. They are fantastic for near stock power levels and street tires, but a power adder and rcomps definitely bumps you out of that range. Hawk Blues or Carbotech XP8 minimum up front

Now, about your quaife gearset rambling...you are not going to gain that much. Sure, in a perfect world you would regear the car for every track. I had 3.42 gears in my focus and thought it was terrible, until I actually drove the car. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. There was a decisive gear for every section of track, except a couple sections at SOW (which didn't really matter much to me). And I did 122 at Cali Speedway (I think I recall ~5800 revs in 4th...which was a bit before peak power) in my car with ~140 whp.

Power required for aero reasons is proportional to the cubic of velocity...yes, to the THIRD power!!! Gearing is not your problem, power is. Sure, you might be able to eek another 2 mph on the front straight, but you can achieve much more than that by following Mitch's suggestions. A flat bottom drastically reduces drag, and will probably give some downforce with less underbody turbulence if there is some rake, and especially if there is a well designed diffuser. Oh, and you will have to get the car lower, just like he said too. A shorter tire/wheel combo allows that with no sacrifice to suspension geometry (I know you gave up the 15" wheels for 16" wheels).

[ClintB1321]

More powa!!!!!

[brads03zx3]

I figured out another section of track I didn't like the 3.42 set. I would exit T9 at Big Willow at the rev limiter in 3rd (225/45/17), which is about 95 mph. I would grab 4th and only reach 112 by the end of the straight (I think like 5100 revs). It is slightly uphill and almost 3000 ft elevation, but the gearing wouldn't make a huge difference as torque is already starting to fall off at that point in the revs. With a 3.82 or 4.06 set, I would have held 4th through T9 and been much higher in the revs at the end of the straight.

Speaking of which, a 3.82 gearset may have helped your situation at Miller allowing you to stay in 4th instead of grabbing 5th.

[ClintB1321]

hey shane...wanna trade gear sets

[Terrible1]

Originally Posted by ClintB1321

hey shane...wanna trade gear sets

Hell no!!!!!
You have that super tall "green" gear from that new fangled motor that sits in the engine bay BACKWARDS!! Why would I want that junk??

[ClintB1321]

tall? i have the 3.82's, not the 3.41's

get it straight, YOUR motor is backwards

[chewbacca]

shane will you please invest in an HD PhotoHero cam and get us some damn video of your car on track? Better yet, truck it down to phoenix for the Thanksgiving Enduro at Phoenix International.

[Terrible1]

Originally Posted by chewbacca

shane will you please invest in an HD PhotoHero cam and get us some damn video of your car on track? Better yet, truck it down to phoenix for the Thanksgiving Enduro at Phoenix International.

I have a wide angle GoPro already
Unfortunately I lost the SD card with all the videos on it :

I'll get some good video next season for sure!

[Terrible1]

So what brake pads does everyone use??
Are the Hawk Blues sufficient enough... or should I go with the HT-10's

[Terrible1]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

Now, about your quaife gearset rambling...you are not going to gain that much. Sure, in a perfect world you would regear the car for every track. I had 3.42 gears in my focus and thought it was terrible, until I actually drove the car. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. There was a decisive gear for every section of track, except a couple sections at SOW (which didn't really matter much to me). And I did 122 at Cali Speedway (I think I recall ~5800 revs in 4th...which was a bit before peak power) in my car with ~140 whp.

I disagree...
The stock gear ratios are terrible in almost every aspect. 3rd gear is the only gear that is perfect if you ask me. 1st & 2nd don't even exist in my eyes. 4th drops the revs a little to much so it takes a little while for the rpm's to come back in. So essentially I'm relying on 1.5 gears for the entire track.... not optimal at all. Show me 1... just 1 purpose built Time Attack vehicle that uses such a "daily driver" or "fuel economy" gear set... besides mine of course
Most of the locals I race with are Honda guys as well as some VW guys. The majority of them have swapped gears around between different OEM gear options to achieve closer ratios as well as purchased full close ratio sets with amazing results.
I think what some keep forgetting is my level of determination with this project. Most everything that is stock that DOES NOT work well for a dedicated race car will NOT be used.... which is almost everything The stock gear set is one of those things since it is an absolutely terrible layout.
In all my years on this site I have yet to run into someone who has performed any tranny gearing modification other then the 4.06 FD.... so I think it's about time someone broke some new ground on FJ. I'm confident the results will speak for themselves

[Terrible1]

Looks like MFactory makes a 4.75 final drive for the MTX75 now... so that is another option for those wanting more then the 4.06 FD

[brads03zx3]

Fair enough. I will support your decision to do a back to back comparo of stock vs altered gearing at that same track, but you can't make any other modifications. I've done gear box optimization. There are gains to be had. But if you are just gonna slap the quaife gears in there, what track will that work best at? And I'll assume from your previous post if you were only picking up 6 mph in 5th, your max speed at the track was 124 mph (4th goes to 117). And I'm not positive where your numbers came from, so I'll use mine.

4.06 w/stock MTX
2nd - 55.4 mph
3rd - 81.8 mph
4th - 115.1 mph
5th - 154 mph

Quaife
1st - 45.24 mph
2nd - 65.55 mph
3rd - 85.40 mph
4th - 105.81 mph
5th - 124.28 mph

3.82 w/Stock MTX
2nd - 58.9
3rd - 86.9
4th - 122.4
5th - 163.7

So essentially, quaife vs stock 3.82. Gears aren't too terribly different except the quaife setup gets rid of the fuel efficient 5th gear, and puts it in between 3rd and 4th. You will be shifting more often, and shifting takes time. I'm a cheap ass and would rather not mess with 5th gear in favor of cheap OE parts. And since you would be on the limiter at the end of the straight, you could bump your limiter up to 7100.

3.82 w/Stock MTX & 7100 limiter
2nd - 61.5
3rd - 90.8
4th - 127.8

My main point is, we can play this all day. Using datalogging, we can see exactly the exit speed of every corner, and optimize gearing so full throttle comes on at peak torque. But that will change when you mod the car, when you go to a different track, etc. Will the quaife gears be faster at that particular configuration? I would be willing to say yes. How fast? I could tell you, but that would take me a couple hours I don't have. I would say on the back side of the track it would be a wash, trading acceleration for an extra 8 shifts. And you might pick up 1/4 second on the front straight.

[Terrible1]

You have some very good points. No wonder pro teams have several transmissions with different gearing in each one for different tracks.

[sleeperlove]

Only 125mph with the quaife gear set??? No bueno

[brads03zx3]

And his chosen final drive (I think 4.25)...he's got a list of them up top, so there is quite a range of top speeds. Like I said, I've been to 122 in my untuned bolt-on duratec. That powerworks beast would be at least 135 at cali speedway

[sleeperlove]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

And his chosen final drive (I think 4.25)...he's got a list of them up top, so there is quite a range of top speeds. Like I said, I've been to 122 in my untuned bolt-on duratec. That powerworks beast would be at least 135 at cali speedway

Indeed, my little zetec car is nicking 115 at the end of the back straight at Mid O. I was also nearing the limiter in 4th in 2 places at VIR. With 120+ more hp I can only imagine the speed!

[Terrible1]

With the proper final drive top speed won't be a problem.

With 7500rpm, a 4.25 FD and a 235-40-17 tire top speed = 133mph.
With 7500rpm, a 4.06 FD and a 235-40-17 tire top speed = 139mph.
With 7500rpm, a 3.82 FD and a 235-40-17 tire top speed = 148mph

[Terrible1]

Suggestions on brake pads???

[blueovaldave]

CarboTech XP10s. I have run them for a full season and a half. Around 8 - 10 time trial events and just now ordered a new set.
They stop great and I have no problems swapping them on driving to an event, driving home and back to work to swap back out.

[brads03zx3]

I'm pretty sure I already made brake pad suggestions. I've used Hawk Blue and Carbotech XP8 pads with success, with stock zx3 brakes. They should do fine, but if you want to bump up to XP10, they can handle a bit more heat and should offer just slightly more torque. We have ran XP10 and XP12 on the scion, but I really don't think you need the XP12.

[ZX3TUNING]

shane,
look at the quaife gear set later.
youre lack of speed on the straight is 100% a reflection of the front bumper design you are sporting.
go back to those pics i sent you of the Cupcar and look at the ducting in the front end. your coolers and brake ducts truly should be arranged like that.
put the oil cooler where we had it before, remove the factory PS cooler and replace it with a small fin-cooler on the driver side(leave room for a tranny cooler to be added later), duct both coolers from the fog light openings, enlarge them even!
duct the air out of the rad UP and out the hood(cut a hole if you need to) and the air our of the side mount coolers at the brakes. a 2x12" rectangular hole in the center opening of the splitter that actually dumps under the splitter and 2 large square holes on either side of the car that duct straight back to the inside bolt of the LCA. a 993 style brake scoop mounted to the LCA with the brake duct and the cooler exits dumping right at it to cool the brakes. all that with the flat bottom design i showed i would not be surprised if you picked up 10mph on the back straight with no other changes!!


seriously. do all of that before you start trying to fix the car with more money, power or gearing.

if you can get the gear sets for $500, then buy one, pic up a spair trans and LSD and build another tranny. like i said in the PM, once you do it a couple of times, you can have the tranny swap done in under 2 hours on your back at the track!

as for the brakes, go with what the guys suggest!