Power loss on a long turn...

[Blis]

Hello everyone.

I have posted on this topic before, but I would like to diagnose this as much as possible...

Well, simply said, when I take long, fast, right turns (like higway ramps), my engine looses power.

Now, if I am on the turn, and let go of the gas, the car will start slowing down (naturally). If I try to accelerate it though , a weird thing happens, the engine starts slowing the car even more! Like there is no gas in the engine at all, not even enough for idle.

When the engine is idleing, there is small amount of gas and small amount of air going into the engine. As you step on the gas, you are letting more air in which in turns triggers the ECU to let pump more gas.

Lets assume that the pump is not working at such turn. Wouldn't it cut off idle as well? Maybe it can not work efficiently in such condition (more lateral g forces due to the turn) and can only pump certain amount of gas?

Not sure. The problem is that this can be dangerous as well. If I step on the gas, I expect my car to accelerate. If the engine suddenly looses power, it will act as I pressed brakes, only to the front wheels though. Do you think it would be possible that front wheels start spinning at slower rate then they should causing the loss of traction? Also, since the engine is not getting enough gas, is it possible that it might stall or damage something?

Not sure if this is related to the broken fuel pump problem, since I have not discovered any leaks, nor fuel loss.

Thanks for the help...

[This message has been edited by Blis (edited 07-31-2001).]

[Blis]

Bump....

[blurr]

FWIW-I've seen this topic here before. Some were saying fuel pump, but I don't know for sure.

I have noticed something similar to what you're talking about but I haven't gotten it happen when I tried to make it happen. I think, perhaps, in my case, it's just the motor falling out of the power band. Maybe.

[Rallyfoci]

Blis, my car suffers from the exact same problem, but very infrequently. However, I also have a wonky fuel gauge, gearbox suffering from excess lash, and an engine stumble at 1700 to 2100 rm in 4th gear at partial throttle.

Going to the dealer tomorrow, will let you know what happens.

[Jared]

uh-oh... welcome to the club (see my sig...)

my fuel pump is faulty. i have the exact same problem as you, when i corner hard on entrance ramps, while accelerating, my engine will bog down, the car almost jerks to a stop as if i'm hitting the brakes... if i let off the gas, and gently apply the gas again, it usually subsides though, BUT...

...one time, i had very low gas (low fuel light was on but i still coulda went another 40 miles or so), this happened, and instead of recovering when i applied the gas again, the engine started dying on me, i couldnt give it enough gas to get me above 40 mph (this was on the highway), and i drove like that for about a mile before the engine completely stalled on me. then, it wouldnt start again.

so, i called Roadside Assistance, they towed my car to the dealer, where it sat for 4 days before they looked at it.

i then got a call from them, and they said, "uh, it started up just fine for us, we drove it for 20 miles without any problems, we can't see anything wrong with it." ...meaning, they couldnt find a problem, so they wouldnt replace the pump.

i'm thinking that when i took that hard turn, some air might have gotten in the fuel lines, which caused it to stall out, and then it settled enough that a few days later when they started it up it was fine again. but, i know nothing about fuel systems, so this is purely an uneducated guess.

in any event, try to take them on an entrance ramp to show them, because driving around down won't reproduce the problem. if they don't fix it like they didnt do with mine, either don't take turns as fast (heheh) or try to keep your fuel level high at all times. i hope they fix it for you though, i was thinking about going back and taking them to the highway ramps where it happens to me, then maybe they'll fix it for me.

------------------
Member of the Dying Fuel Pump Club

Jared /// 2000 Zinc Yellow ZX3
~Team Mid-Atlantic~
Performance mods: Vibrant cat-back, Esslinger UDP, B&M shifter, Ractive filter, Mobil1
Interior/exterior mods: Ford RS leather shift knob, Hella dual-tone airhorn, Permacap gas cap, Sylvania CoolBlue headlight bulbs, BATinc amber foglight bulbs
Tunes: Pioneer DEH-P7200 w/ 12 disc changer, Bazooka 10" sub

[This message has been edited by Jared (edited 08-01-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jared (edited 08-01-2001).]

[nilo]

I was just about going to post a topic on this and I saw this thread. I just got my KW sport kit installed and naturally, I had to go out to some on-off ramps and try some hard cornering. I had this happen to me twice on the same ramp in different days. Both days I had about 1/4 fuel left in the tank. Basically, in the middle of the turn my engine would lose power and my car would rapidly slow down. I was pulling some heavy G's and accelerating in 3rd gear. Now this is not a subtle power loss.. This is a heavy lunge forward and back. Both times I had to ease back on the throttle and accelerate back until I was in a straight line again.

[Blis]

Yep, that's the one...

It does happen more often when I am low on fule, but it also happens when I have more gas too...

I will take the car to the dealer in two weeks (vacation), and would definetely take them for a ride if they can't figure it out... There is a ramp where it happens 3 miles away from the dealership. Second, third, no discrimination...

Air in the fuel lines sounds like a possible cause... but it still bothers me why it would work on idle throttle, but not if I am accelerating... I am just afraid that if I start stopping suddenly that someone is going to rearend me or I will skid off the ramp.

This might not be related, but I got 2K zx3...

[blurr]

Blis said..."I am just afraid that if I start stopping suddenly that someone is going to rearend me or I will skid off the ramp."

Definately tell that to the service guy, that it's a safety issue! If they say it's not a problem- get it in writing from them. If they won't do that write something up yourself and ask the Service Manager to sign it.

[Rallyfoci]

Got my ZX3 back from the dealer today. Sure enough it was the fuel pump. I now have a new one-replaced under warranty. I also have new spark plugs-replaced under warranty. One of, or both these repairs have completely fixed the problems.
The dealer racked up 96km on my car and had 4 pages of diagnostics to show me. I think they just like driving it

[ZX3er]

I think they just like driving it
sure thing.

[quaverous]

that's what my car did exactly when my fuel pump went. although my fuel line broke when they changed out the pumped, therefore waiting 3 extra days for that to get fixed

------------------
Performance: Vibrant, FS Race Header, Diablo, UDP, EGR-less, Strut Bars, High Flow Cat
Sound: Alpine Deck, Kenwood Amp, RF Subs
Looks: Painted Trim (Int/Ext), 2nd Dome Light, Factory Cruise/Tilt, Euro Grills, Tint

2000 Ford Focus SE Infra-Red
Team Focaljet - Great Lakes - A thug of the Minnesota Mafia

[Amorgus]

If its worth anything, my car does this too. Long hard turns that i'm accelerating through the throttle cuts out completely.

[JimmyLee]

"Fuel Pump"...a historic problem with the 2000 models.

[Phiber]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>JimmyLee "Fuel Pump"...a historic problem with the 2000 models. <hr></blockquote>

Does Ford know? If they do, why don't they do anything about it? Perhaps... A recall? [img]graemlins/rant.gif[/img]

[shikatoi]

at least now it's confirmed for me.. ai'm going to the dealer to get the dang thing replaced already.. i almost got rear ended on the onramp last week.. ford will be aware of how i feel about the safetly of this.. grrrrrrr. lol

what warranty? @#$%@# i shoulda bought a new one instead of used.

[S2]

I should have done a search on this earlier. I have been having this problem for a few months now as well, exactly as you all have been describing it except it happens even on a full tank of gas. I am printing out this thread to show to my dealer who "Can't seem to find anything wrong with it on the computers." I almost gave up after several failed trips to the service department, but this gives me a renewed sense of hope!

[Kelric]

look in the problems/service/recalls section....

it is a well known and well documented problem (did you notice the date of the original thread? August of LAST year).

There are several TSB's out about it and the NTSB is doing an investigation into it as well (one of the six investigations involving the focus right now from the NTSB).

If you have to get it replaced not under warranty, keep your receipt as it is the only way you ever have a chance of recouping any money if they ever do a recall.

[drivefaster]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kelric:
look in the problems/service/recalls section....

it is a well known and well documented problem (did you notice the date of the original thread? August of LAST year).

There are several TSB's out about it and the NTSB is doing an investigation into it as well (one of the six investigations involving the focus right now from the NTSB).

If you have to get it replaced not under warranty, keep your receipt as it is the only way you ever have a chance of recouping any money if they ever do a recall.<hr></blockquote>


I had this problem and posted about it in May of last year. My second fuel pump is about to get the heave-ho for non-functioning very soon.

[S2]

well I printed out this thread and brought it in to the dealer. After some himing and hawing they replaced my fuel pump for me and voala! It worked. My problem is solved. I love the internet. [img]graemlins/party.gif[/img]

[fruitport_focus]

I just had this happen to me a couple of weeks ago. Entering a right hand on-ramp my 2001 ZX3 almost died. It stumbled so bad I could only nurse it up to about 60mph. The car finally quit about 3 miles up the road and I coasted to a stop. The car restarted and I was able to make it (coast)to the nearest gas station. My low fuel light was not on but I was low on fuel. Once I filled up the car ran great. For your information and my future reference. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[bluebyutoo]

Well add another one to the list!
I’ve been reading these post about “bad fuel pumps” thinking, poor bastards, glad I don’t have that problem, and tonight, what happens…
Going around a steep on ramp (and enjoying it) I feel the car sputter. When I give it gas its sputtering and almost stalling. While at a light, it was barely catching, but did keep running. Then all of a sudden it was back. Going to take it to the dealer ASAP.
Does the replacement pump solve the problem ore are there continued problems?

[schnack]

do you have a 2000 focus?

If you do, it's the sending unit, not the pump. I fixed my sending unit, here are some pics from my website...




FUEL SOLUTION PAGE

in addition we removed teh filter around the fuel pump itself, (we left the bottom one in) removed several 90 degree angles fromt he top of the pump to the connection outside of the canister. We replaced the shoty line with a heavy duty one that could be submerged in fuel. All this was completed with the stock fuel pump in tact. We eventually replaced the stock unit with one from VENOM, car runs great! Doesn't cut out unit 1/8 of tank or lower, and only on right turns. I have gutted my back end, making it much lighter, don't think it would cut out at full weight.

more questions: modamax_detroit@hotmail.com



this picture show the stock flex lines, we removed all of these, and replaced with a heavy fuel line

[mo_focus]

i had the same problem last year, take it to the dealer and they will replace the whole thing(fuel sending unit+fuel pump) free of charge for you, if your dealer says NO, tell them to look into their history logs( ford keeps a log of all problems) and they will find it for sure.

if you want to make the promlem show agian, go to the dealer with a little gas in your tank and when you test drive take the Ramp at WOT, it will happen for sure. cause it did happen to me all the time. hope this helps you all. lates Mo

[S. on Da 5]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by schnack:
do you have a 2000 focus?

If you do, it's the sending unit, not the pump. I fixed my sending unit, here are some pics from my website...




FUEL SOLUTION PAGE

in addition we removed teh filter around the fuel pump itself, (we left the bottom one in) removed several 90 degree angles fromt he top of the pump to the connection outside of the canister. We replaced the shoty line with a heavy duty one that could be submerged in fuel. All this was completed with the stock fuel pump in tact. We eventually replaced the stock unit with one from VENOM, car runs great! Doesn't cut out unit 1/8 of tank or lower, and only on right turns. I have gutted my back end, making it much lighter, don't think it would cut out at full weight.

more questions: modamax_detroit@hotmail.com



this picture show the stock flex lines, we removed all of these, and replaced with a heavy fuel line<hr></blockquote>


Cool hack. [img]graemlins/thumbup.gif[/img]

[bluebyutoo]

Called my dealer to make an appointment and the service guy stated that unless they can reproduce the problem then they will not fix the pump.
So should I take them for an onramp rided at WOT an scare the @#%* out of them so they can experience the problem?
I can just here them saying that under "normal" driving conditions that its not a problem, an I'm concerned that if I tell them I auto cross they will not do the repair under warranty