Tire Suggestion for HPDE?

[tra]

Getting ready to enter NASA's HPDE program (HPDE 1) and wondering what track tires I should consider. Participating in the Great Lakes region, so a single tire that is capable in both wet & dry conditions would be of interest.

I will be running 17" SVT Focus Euro wheels.

Thank you in advance for your input.

Regards.

[sleeperlove]

Do NOT buy R comps to start out on.

Go with Something like the
Dunlop Star specs
Falken rt 615s
Bridgestone Re01Rs
Any of those would be good starter tires me thinks. I run the Rt-615s and they are pretty good but if you abuse them and don't manage tires well they will grease up.

As far as suspension there are lots of options, you could leave it stock for a while then as you progress you could make some suspension decisions.

Will you be at Mid Ohio July 11-13?

[hksvt_03]

I just got a set of Dunlop star spec's, and I did my first track day on them last weekend. They worked out really well, even on a slightly damp track.

Any of the above mentioned tires would work out well though, I think.

Alex

[BadIdea]

I would buy the khumo mx in 215/45. $113 from tirerack. If you have a svt you need to flush your power steering fluid with redline. Also a few friends of mine will be at nelson ledges on the 18th for the funday.

[brads03zx3]

Originally Posted by BadIdea

I would buy the khumo mx in 215/45. $113 from tirerack. If you have a svt you need to flush your power steering fluid with redline. Also a few friends of mine will be at nelson ledges on the 18th for the funday.

Good info. I have talked with a couple of people at the track and the Star Specs/RE01R tires will grease up really bad if pushed too hard.

On the other hand, for regular HPDE stuff, I don't care what tire I am running. I have ran Falken ziex 512, Azenis 615 and 215, Nitto NT555, and sumitomo HTR H4. I had fun and learned a lot using each of those tires. So to be honest, I wouldn't purchase an uber-expensive high performance summer tire. Lap times do not matter. Learning the limit of the car and the tires adhesion is what matters. Some tires are noisier, break away slightly different, but I would go cheap. What tires do you have currently? They have already been purchased, so it doesn't get much cheaper than that.

[TheNinjaMDC]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

Good info. I have talked with a couple of people at the track and the Star Specs/RE01R tires will grease up really bad if pushed too hard.

On the other hand, for regular HPDE stuff, I don't care what tire I am running. I have ran Falken ziex 512, Azenis 615 and 215, Nitto NT555, and sumitomo HTR H4. I had fun and learned a lot using each of those tires. So to be honest, I wouldn't purchase an uber-expensive high performance summer tire. Lap times do not matter. Learning the limit of the car and the tires adhesion is what matters. Some tires are noisier, break away slightly different, but I would go cheap. What tires do you have currently? They have already been purchased, so it doesn't get much cheaper than that.

Brad,
I'm Tra's teammate. The car currently has old RA-1's on some stock 15" wheels, so they're no good for what we'd like to race with. We're probably going to get new wheels and tires, so that's why we're looking for suggestions on the tires for the 17"ers.

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions - the more opinions we get the better.

Also, how many sessions/weekends/outings do you guys get out of the tires you are running?

Thanks,
-Mike

[sleeperlove]

Don't start out on R comps. They will only help mask your mistakes.

[brads03zx3]

The r-comps I was using wasn't masking any mistakes 4 year old cracked and corded RA1 tires

TheNinjaMDC: your post worries me a bit. I'll stick to my original post. HPDE 1 is not for 'racing.' If you must get new wheels/tires, I'd also probably recommend the Falken Azenis 615. It won't be great in the wet, but it will do okay in the damp. I used some old Azenis 215 tires two weekends ago. I probably had 2/32 at the beginning of the weekend and they still have visible tread. It really depends on the track surface, driving style, horsepower and weight. A stock powered/braked focus should be able to track an entire season on a set of street tires.

Stay away from bfg g-force sports for the track. I have seen two cars that ran them and they chunk really bad.

[supersonicsvt]

The Falken Azenis are excellent, even better than the Kumho MX. They squeal nicely for that audible feedback that is so important for learning. I was very pleased - two DEs and the "Azenis" lettering on the center rib has just now gone away. You will need upgraded brake pads for the Azenis (because of the grip). Don't bother with Hawk HP+, they faded on me. Go right to the Carbotechs (XP8 or XP10) with new rotors.

I know someone will comment the Azenis get "greasey" when they get hot, but I did an HPDE at Road Atlanta in July (95° plus) and the people who couldn't keep up with me swore I had R comps. 30 minute sessions, four each day. When they were really hot, I had to very slightly change my driving style. But they were still faster than any other non-R comp tire.

[Johnny_P]

^ yep, they grease up. Mine started greasing over after run #3 at the last autocross, it felt like a different, sloppier car all around and was sliding a lot more than it had in the 1st and 2nd runs. RT-615s are good though, and I think they're pretty cheap... just don't use them in the rain, they suck when it gets wet

[supersonicsvt]

Autocross is a completely different animal than HPDE. They grease up worse for autocross, from what I understand. Even tho they grease up worse for autocross, they are still the top tire in STS, IIUC.

One of my instructors had Kumho MXs and switched to Azenis during a track day. He ditched his MXs. I think the Nittos and the Kooks are pretty good, but still not quite up to the Azenis, so why pay more?

And to clarify what I think Johnny P is saying above, the Azenis have really good wet grip for track duty street tire, but the hydroplaning resistance is poor. You shouldn't have hydroplaning issues on a decent track unless its a real downpour, and they likely won't run if it is raining that bad.

[OmniFocus]

It is a great tire, but it'll certainly grease up on track when you ask too much of it.

I was trying to extract the extra bit out of mine at Buttonwillow, and then suddenly I thought the car was broken. Steering feedback was dead, turn-in was numb, etc. I slowed down for a couple laps and it came right back. Sure enough, the tires had enough of me. Great tire, but not grease-proof. It is a great tire for running at 8/10ths, and the bag for the buck is hard to beat.

[supersonicsvt]

Guess it depends on the track, the brakes and the driver. I was pushing very hard at RA.

The original post says he is just starting out so it's likely he won't grease the Azenis even on the worst track. He also says he has Euro wheels, so he needs 215/45/17s, or 215/40/17s. 225s will rub, so I hear. I did my first DE on Sumitomos, sliding and skreeching around every turn. I got by just fine, but if I were buying tires knowing I'd be using them on the track, it wouldn't be the Sumis. He could basically use any tire to start.

So assuming you are on a track that makes the Azenis greasy to the point Omni describes, what non-R comp tire is better? I don't know of any......?

FWIW, my next tires will be R comps - Victoracers, 710s or NT01s. But the Azenis are quite a good deal as I am learning to drive.

[ladybug04]

also check out the dunlop direzzas, great tire. they are better then the azenis in STS this year, bridgestone better then that, i havent tracked them yet, so i cant tell you how they do on a track, but plenty of grip. and good turn-in, just alla around a sweet tire, except for the wet, stay away from standing water!

bryan

[OmniFocus]

My favorite thing about the Azenis is the price.

I can forgive any downside at $110 a pop for a 235/40-17.

[sleeperlove]

Originally Posted by OmniFocus

My favorite thing about the Azenis is the price.

I can forgive any downside at $110 a pop for a 235/40-17.

No kidding!

I have had the greasing as well. And like you said Omni, it goes away just as soon as you realize what it going on and stop trying to make them do things they may not be capable of.

Can't wait to use mine again next weekend. 3 days at mid ohio we shall see what happens to the tread depth after that

[MichaelXi]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

On the other hand, for regular HPDE stuff, I don't care what tire I am running. I have ran Falken ziex 512,...

You, Sir, ... Are INSANE!!!!

[Johnny_P]

ziex 512? they're the worst tires I've ever had! good lord. I swear, my General G4S had better road manners and traction than those POS Ziex...

[brads03zx3]

I agree...I have just thoroughly finished off my ziex 512 tires. I hated them

And to the poster that had no grease issues with azenis, but had serious fade with HP+ pads, maybe try replacing your 120k mile brake fluid. I learned to drive on the stock eagles. Those were the only tires worse than the ziex 512. It doesn't matter though, unless you are competing for lap times. Even crappy tires didn't prevent me from learning the limit of my car, and my lines and times always get better every day I'm on the track. I like the Azenis and if you insist on buying another set of tires, go with those.

[supersonicsvt]

^^^Not sure if you are talking about me, but I only use fresh ATE fluid every event. The HP+ pads not only faded, but got everything so hot it fried my piston dust boot. But no fluid boil and no glazing. I will admit I'm driving HARD (gotta pass those M3s).

I just finished another DE at Road Atlanta this weekend. I used Carbotech XP10s on the front and they were great. I also added the Porsche brake scoops to the lower A arms and I'm sure that made quite a difference as well. Very pleased with that combo.

The Azenis did great until the last session yesterday afternoon where I was trying to keep up with much better cars (combined run session). I was driving my car at about 100% for a couple laps (4 wheel drifts!), went into T3 hot, hit the brakes, got lots of ABS and slid two wheels over the T4 gator. Other than that the Azenis worked great all weekend and I'm signed off to go solo. They are very predictable - perfect for folks just beginning in HPDE, IMO - they will prolly only need the one set of tires until they get to the advanced groups where the driving skills require better brakes and better tires to go faster.

I do agree that for your first HPDE just use the tires you have . But if you have to buy new tires anyway, and you want to make the track a higher priority than driving on the street, the Azenis are perfect. But I would not recommend then for daily use in areas subject to monsoons (like here).