Winter Tire Information Thread.

[BJ@Tirerack.com]

With winter fast approaching I thought this would be a great topic to address with my first informational post.

How do winter tires work?

Here are a few pictures to illustrate the mechanics involved in winter traction.

If you look closely at a road surface, it's not as smooth as you might think. The road surface is represented by the model in this picture.


With the high grip rubber compound used in your summer performance tires, the contact area conforms to the irregular surface of the road.



That amount of contact can generate a tremendous amount of traction in the summer time but what if the road in snow covered?


That brings us to the question, what makes a tire a good winter tire? The answer is a three part puzzle and all three parts are vital to generating good traction

Tread design is the first piece to the puzzle.
This picture shows a winter tire tread design which utilizes a large number of sipes.



When the road is covered with snow, the tire is no longer able to conform to the surface.



The siping allows the tread elements to flex under stress and create aggressive "biting edges" when braking, cornering or accelerating.




Tread depth is the second piece to the puzzle.

While deep snow and ice-covered roads are two of the most challenging conditions North American drivers will face, tire developments during the last decade have noticeably advanced wintertime mobility. The technological revolution of dedicated winter tires for drivers in the snowbelt, and the continuing evolution of all-season tires for drivers living on its periphery, offer more grip in snow and on ice than ever before.

However, the basics of delivering traction and handling on snow and ice remain unchanged. Tires must combine three fundamental features to deliver good winter time performance, including an appropriate tread design, pliable tread compound and sufficient tread depth. If any one of these fundamental features is absent, the other two, regardless of their ability, cannot deliver the desired results! Since engineers can develop cutting-edge tread designs and chemists can develop advanced rubber compounds, it is often the remaining tread depth that is the variable in determining wintertime performance.
In most parts of the world, tires are considered to be legally worn out when they reach 2/32" (approximately 1.6mm) of remaining tread depth. U.S. law requires tires to have easy-to-see Tread Wear Indicator bars running between the tire's grooves to show when the tire's tread has worn down to the minimum legal limit of 2/32 inch.

However, in spite of the legal minimums, Tire Rack recommends that drivers expecting to experience wet conditions consider replacing their tires when they reach 4/32" of remaining tread depth. Tire Rack's tests have shown that shallow treads reduce wet braking traction and increase stopping distances

Tire Rack also recommends that drivers expecting to encounter snow covered roads consider replacing their tires when they reach approximately 6/32" of remaining tread depth to maintain good mobility. Tires need more tread depth in winter conditions to compress snow in their grooves and release it as they roll. If there isn't sufficient tread depth, the "bites" of snow that can be processed on each tire revolution will be reduced to "nibbles," and the vehicle's traction and mobility in snow will be reduced.



[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]The third and final part of the puzzle is the rubber compound used. Rubber compounds vary widely from manufacturer to manufacturer but, the task is the same so, you will see similarities between the products. They all typically use compounds which utilize materials designed to remain flexible at cold temps in addition to traction enhancements from silica and other materials which add more bite on ice.

Selecting the proper style of winter tire is also very important.

There are basically three different types of winter tires

#1.) Performance Winter

Performance winter tires are designed for customers willing to trade a little snow and ice traction for more stable, responsive handling in the dry conditions.

Meeting severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these low profile, H or V speed rated tires are designed to suit winter driving on European highways. They are available in many of the low profile sizes used on larger wheel diameters. Due to their unique designs, performance winter tires must be mounted on the vehicle as a set of four.

#2.) Studless Ice and Snow

Studless ice and snow tires are designed to offer the best available snow and ice traction, sacrificing some dry performance and treadlife. They meey severe snow service requirements and are branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol. These Q, R or T speed rated tires feature the latest in tread compound technology to provide winter traction without the inconvenience of tire studs. They trade a little handling for excellent ice and snow traction. Due to their unique tread compounds these tires must be installed in sets of four.

#3.)Studdable Winter


These meet severe snow service requirements and branded with the "Snowflake-on-the-Mountain" symbol, these tires feature traditional snow tire tread compounds and studdable tread designs for good snow and ice traction. Due to their unique designs, these tires must be used in sets of four. Use of studded tires is prohibited or restricted in certain states or provinces. Check with local authorities to confirm legality.
But Do I Really Need Winter Tires?

The primary concern that our customers express is that they don't want to get "stuck" in the snow (or in the ditch) during the winter.

Cities like Atlantic City, Nashville and Seattle are located at the extreme edges of the snow belt. For most drivers in an area like this, a good set of all-seasons will probably work for the winter months.

We all know that tires are a compromise. One tire can't be the fastest on the track, most controllable in the snow, and longest wearing. The Ultra High Performance tire that grips the track with tread temperatures of 200° is incompetent as its tread compound becomes like "hard plastic" at below 32°. Today's 80,000-mile tires require tread designs and compounds that maximize long, even wear... not winter traction. And while many of today's all-season tires (Original Equipment, touring and performance) address some of these issues, they still emphasize longer wear, a quiet ride or greater dry performance over winter traction.

Only winter tires are designed to excel in the colder temperatures, slush, snow and ice that many parts of the country experience for three or more months a year.

It's also important to note that the recent advancements in electronic driver aids, such as ABS and traction control, don't provide more traction. They only help prevent drivers from over braking or overpowering the available traction of their tires. The only thing the driver can do to increase traction is to install better tires.

With all of the different sizes, fitments and requirements for each car and driver, I can't list all the different models and options.

As in the past, there are 'general use' recommended packages for each model car to be found at http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=DG2&url=/winter/index.jsp.

If you would like to discuss other options for your specific needs please don't hesitate to give me a call at 800-428-8355 ext. 283 or drop me an BJ@tirerack.com.

You can also post in this thread for recommendations specific to your needs. This will allow other users to see the same recommendations and will make more useful information available to the group.

year:
make:
model:
location:
tires only or winter package:

I will respond directly to your post

[sicko]

I got some Blizzak Revo 1s from you guys last year. best snow driving experience I've ever had.

[GapBoyPCS]

Great thread!

I have two suggestions for topics to cover:

1. Steel rims versus aluminum rims
- I know there are pros and cons to both, and my friends always ask me which is which. Sometimes, there are no other options but aluminum rim, but most of the thinking has always been use steel rims (cheaper, and it serves its main purpose of holding your tires to your car).

2. When to change over
- People have their own suggestions. I know I look at outside temperatures and road conditions. Lately, marketers up here in my area are using a 7-degrees Celsius as the "benchmark" for switching. The concern out there is that by putting on winter tires too early, you'll essentially wear the tires out faster and make them less effective when it's really winter.

[BJ@Tirerack.com]

GapBoyPCS.

Thanks for the suggestions. When I get some time, I'll try to do a write-up addressing those questions.

[2K1ZX3S2]

2001 Focus ZX3 Massachusetts
I've used your 195/60R15 Blizzack REV01 tires for the past two winters. I'm on the highway before the plows get things cleaned up and I'm hoping you can tell me about a tire with more grip then the REV01's. Does a studdable tire like the Pirelli Winter Carving, without studs, have more grip then a studless tire like the Blizzack? I notice you show the Blizzack WS-60 now. What is the difference between that and the REV01 tire? I'm looking for the tire that will give me the most grip in snow and ice-not a performance winter tire. Would you recommend the 185/65R15 or the 195/60R15 for the most traction? Thanks for your help.

[BJ@Tirerack.com]

Originally Posted by 2K1ZX3S2

2001 Focus ZX3 Massachusetts
I've used your 195/60R15 Blizzack REV01 tires for the past two winters. I'm on the highway before the plows get things cleaned up and I'm hoping you can tell me about a tire with more grip then the REV01's. Does a studdable tire like the Pirelli Winter Carving, without studs, have more grip then a studless tire like the Blizzack? I notice you show the Blizzack WS-60 now. What is the difference between that and the REV01 tire? I'm looking for the tire that will give me the most grip in snow and ice-not a performance winter tire. Would you recommend the 185/65R15 or the 195/60R15 for the most traction? Thanks for your help.

Bridgestone has discontinued the Revo-1 tire. The Revo-1 was originally produced to provide the best ice traction on the market. This tire provided great grip on ice but lacked the ultimate snow traction found in other studless ice and snow tires. Bridgestone used the technology from the Revo-1 to produce the WS-60 which offers a better blend of ice and snow traction. In my opinion, the Blizzak WS-60 and Michelin X-Ice X12 will offer the best snow and ice traction of any tires that we carry. We've found that these tires actually get considerably better traction than studded snow tires.

Check out this test: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=94

As for the sizing, I recommend the 185/65R15 if winter traction is your main goal. The skinnier tire is preferred in winter time but you will sacrifice some more of your daily dry road handling.

[MachFive]

Great, informative post!

I've run Goodyear Ultra Grips on my stock 15's a few years back, and will probably be doing the same on 17's this winter. They were my first dedicated winter tires i've ever had, and the difference really was night and day compared to all-season/high-performance tires.

[hEaT]

Originally Posted by GapBoyPCS

Great thread!

2. When to change over
- People have their own suggestions. I know I look at outside temperatures and road conditions. Lately, marketers up here in my area are using a 7-degrees Celsius as the "benchmark" for switching. The concern out there is that by putting on winter tires too early, you'll essentially wear the tires out faster and make them less effective when it's really winter.

That works farther up north, but I don't think we've only had one week in early November that was that cold in the morning. We've had sleet and snow since then and it hasn't dipped into the low 20's (-4 or 5 tops) in some time.

It snowed Sunday with freezing rain and today it's 50*.

[BJ@Tirerack.com]

I used to change mine out over Thanksgiving break but this year we had quite a bit of snow prior to that. If you're using a true summer tire, you may need to put them on before the snow actually hits so that you don't get stuck in the snow with little to no traction at all. If you're using an all-season for the summer time, you can be a bit more flexible as those will work to get you home in light snow/ice.

The time to change really will depend on your actual location and forecast that year. The key is to play it safe when you use the summer compound tires. It's best to keep those out of the freezing temperatures as well. A day or two in the cold won't ruin the tire but you want to avoid any prolonged exposure whenever possible. (under 40F or so)

[appetite4gnr]

Just picked up a set of Firestone Firehawks. Gotta get some steelies now! Anyone had these/had problems with them?

[Dukman]

And odd question. I have a set of snow tires, but they are at 50% wear. I have a set of performance all seasons at 99% wear on the car.

Which is the better option?

I mean, besides buying another set of snow tires.

[bustonit]

I must say, Living in Minnesota I have never had winter or snow tires. I have always run all seasons and never had problems. Currently I do run 185/65/15's as my winter tire. This is the first year I will have that size on the car. Previously, it has been 195/60/15. I usually buy 60k tireware tires, put 40-45k on them, then switch out to new ones by/before the next winter.

All that being said, I am intrigued with the thought of a set of dedicated winter tires. I do believe the increased level of confidence/saftey are worth the cost. However the added cost as always been the prohibitive factor.

While it won't be this year, I am working a set of summer only tires into the rotation which will lenghten the life of my current 185s. So still, while it may not be for a few years, when the 185s kick the bucket, winters will be the tire of choice. Then I will see what difference there really is.

[Jared]

Originally Posted by Dukman

And odd question. I have a set of snow tires, but they are at 50% wear. I have a set of performance all seasons at 99% wear on the car.

Which is the better option?

I mean, besides buying another set of snow tires.

If the snows are on their own set of wheels I'd probably rock those and see if you can milk any more use out of em.

[Jared]

We are on our second season of Blizzak WS-60's on steel wheels from Tire Rack, on my girlfriends '07 Mazda3s.

Great tire! Plus I love ordering from Tire Rack, the tires showed up on brand new steel wheels (call sooner than later to make sure they still have what you need in stock, steel wheels can dry up quick depending on the car!), my friend order from another major tire store for a set for his Mazdaspeed3 and they sent him mismatched offset and ill-fitting used steel wheels for not a lot less than new ones at Tire Rack.

We have enough tread to do one more season of high-mileage driving I think. The ones that were on the fronts last year still have decent tread on them but only for back tire duty.

I wish Tire Rack would stock Nokians. Last year we put Nokian WR-G2's on my mom's Forester, they're the only all-season tire with a severe-service snowflake on the mountain rating, and the tread life is GREAT on them for an all-season tire, plus they are fantastic in the snow (although less ice traction than my Blizzaks).

For me the WR-G2's are too much of a compromise since I like spirited driving but for my girlfriend I think we might just put them on her car year round when her Blizzaks wear down.

For someone in massive snow-affected area it's not the best solution, but around here we mostly get slush and like 2-4 inch kinda snow so having the summer/snow hybrid WR-G2 works out well.

Oh, steel wheels versus snow tires: I like steel wheels. Around here only car enthusiasts rock snow tires in the winter it seems, and it's like an easy way to spot each other when you see steelies on a nice car lol.

[Dukman]

Originally Posted by Jared

If the snows are on their own set of wheels I'd probably rock those and see if you can milk any more use out of em.

Yeah, I've got the snows mounted on steelies.

[abel1337]

Wow man thanks for the diagrams in this thread! It gave me a visual perspective on how these snow tires actually work. I had no idea

[davegess]

I just purcahsed a 2004 Focus SVT with the Euro package; what a fun car!

Can I use standard steel Focus wheels on this for winter? I really blew the budget on the pruchase so buying a second set of alloy wheels is not real appealing at this point.

I would like to get 4 wheels from the boneyard and mount some good all seasons on them. I know the handling will suffer but come January I just want to get to work. I will likley pass on the winter tires, I haev had some trick Norwegian ones in the past and they are great, as I live and drive in the city and we have the some prettty much off the streets here in Milwaukee in less than a day. Unless you really hit the timing wrong the roads are never really that bad for very long and I can avoid any suburban highways if need be.

Will the standard wheels work?

Thanks
Dave

[GapBoyPCS]

Originally Posted by davegess

I just purcahsed a 2004 Focus SVT with the Euro package; what a fun car!

Can I use standard steel Focus wheels on this for winter? I really blew the budget on the pruchase so buying a second set of alloy wheels is not real appealing at this point.

I would like to get 4 wheels from the boneyard and mount some good all seasons on them. I know the handling will suffer but come January I just want to get to work. I will likley pass on the winter tires, I haev had some trick Norwegian ones in the past and they are great, as I live and drive in the city and we have the some prettty much off the streets here in Milwaukee in less than a day. Unless you really hit the timing wrong the roads are never really that bad for very long and I can avoid any suburban highways if need be.

Will the standard wheels work?

Thanks
Dave

Unfortunately, the standard Focus steel wheels will not clear the brakes on the SVT. The standard Focus steel wheels range are either 14-inch or 15-inch, depending on your year. Ford's SVT Supplement Manual also lists its approved wheel sizing, which includes the use of minimum 16-inch wheels.

Since the introduction of the SVTF, I have yet to hear of any steel 16-inch wheels that can fit the Focus.

What you may want to do is find yourself some either used Focus 16-inch wheels or aftermarket alloys from the boneyard or maybe the classifieds section here or on other websites. Ford Racing also carries some rims as well, and they are competitively priced.

[Hemisfear]

I own a SVT and have been running Continental ExtremeContacts for four years, surviving 2 Winnipeg and now 2 Vancouver winters without any problems whatsoever. My last Conti's are just about done and I have recently purchased a set of 16" Focus mags to mount dedicated winter tires on them. Does anyone have any tire suggestions for me?

[GapBoyPCS]

Originally Posted by Hemisfear

I own a SVT and have been running Continental ExtremeContacts for four years, surviving 2 Winnipeg and now 2 Vancouver winters without any problems whatsoever. My last Conti's are just about done and I have recently purchased a set of 16" Focus mags to mount dedicated winter tires on them. Does anyone have any tire suggestions for me?

What size are you planning to go with the 16's? The reason I ask is that my memory recalls finding 205/50R16s can be tricky (OEM size for 16's). However, the SVT supplement suggests a 205/55R16. So, part of what people recommend might not apply because a particular tire may not be offered in the size(s) you're looking at.

Based on what people have posted in the years, you really can't go wrong with any of the major brands posted here and those available from Tire Rack. I have run Nokian and Gislaved brands with no problems. People in my family and friends have run Michelins and Bridgestones without any problems as well.

[brads03zx3]

Is it necessary to run the Blizzak WS60 in dry conditions before snow to knock off any mold release?

[BJ@Tirerack.com]

The 205/50R16 isn't that bad for snow tire selection.

Here are the ones available from Tire Rack:

Bridgestone Blizzak WS-60
Dunlop Graspic DS-3
Goodyear Ultra Grip GW3
Michelin Primacy Alpine PA3
Michelin X-Ice Xi2

The Dunlops are the value tire at $77/each.

[BJ@Tirerack.com]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

Is it necessary to run the Blizzak WS60 in dry conditions before snow to knock off any mold release?

I would recommend doing that but I don't think it's something to you HAVE to do. The mold release will wear away in the winter but it may take a bit longer. The snow traction will still be quite good but the ice traction will suffer if the mold release isn't worn away yet.

Just put them on before you expect the snow to hit and it won't take long to get them suited up for the ice.

[brads03zx3]

Thanks. I'm new to the area (and to snow). We got our first snow last week, but the locals say we don't typically get that type of storm until December. And I understand the Blizzaks don't last long with constant dry driving and I'd like to see several seasons with them. I'm running the Avid H4S right now and want to run these as long as I can.

[amac]

Last year purchased four Michelin Xice xi2 winter tires for my 02 wagon. As a winter tire they sucked and I would never recommend them for a small vehicle. I know Consumer Reports rated them #1 this year but they tested on a much larger tire (215/60/16) and obviously on a heavier vehicle.

My experience in Canada's capital is they lack bite. The tread isn't deep enough and they can't eject snow (especially the wet stuff). In our snow/salt/sand combination of conditions, if felt like I was driving in oil.

On the plus side, they were fine in very cold weather, tooks bumps better than my Michelin Harmony all-season and were very comfortable and extremely quiet.