EBC Rotors: Replace or Resurface??

[smokethebear]

I usually replace my rotors when I replace my pads on my 2004 ZX3; the Ford rotors are softer than my stomach and my OEMs warped within 8k miles of having them turned once after my first brake job.

The last few sets of front brakes I've had were Hawk HPS pads, grinding down whatever cheap 2-year warranty Autozone rotors I could get my hands on. The idea was to totally eat up the cheap rotors with some hardcore pads, and get a new set of rotors at no charge when the pads wore thin.

But I went to Bat-inc. for their (really good) deal of EBC rotors with Mintex pads this last time. My vibrating pedal tells me it's time again, but I wonder:

Can I safely turn the EBC rotors, or will they, like the OEM rotors, just be too thin for the application after shaving?? I enjoy being able to go more than 10k miles on a set of front brakes...

[TolusD]

I don't want to distract from your post, but which EBC rotors did you get and how did you like them? I'm buying new rotors and pads as soon as I can figure out which ones to get and I was leaning very heavily towards a set from BAT. Your input as an experienced buyer would be greatly appreciated.

[smokethebear]

The set from BAT were/are great; not as grabby as the Hawk pads, but also considerably less abrasive on the rotors. Both packages, in my experience, cost about the same.

I don't want to make any recommendations quite yet though, as I'm still waiting for one of the many people on this site that have bought the BAT set to say something about their experience with turning those EBC rotors...

[BOWERSdaAZIAN]

Something doesnt sound right if you are not getting over 10k with your rotors. I had my stock rotors and pads for 40k to include 2 HPDE events and a slew of twisty days and spirited driving.

[smokethebear]

My car is used for delivery purposes over 30hrs. weekly; I'd wager my brakes see a lot more abuse than many of the cars that actually do events on here.

Besides, the 10k was only with the rotors that came with my car; never went back to Ford stock, and have had good brake life ever since.

Would you happen to have any experience with EBC rotors by any chance??

[blueovaldave]

I don't have any experience with the EBC rotors but I can tell you that in 20 years of the car business most of the aftermarket rotors do not take well to being
machined.

They are so hard that they don't react well to being machined. Unless you are getting a vibration when braking I would pad slap it.

I run stock SVT rotors on my car and use them on the track and street and just swap the a set of CarboTech pads back and forth with no problems or concerns.

[Z63R]

It's not that rotor material quality has greatly diminished, but that pad friction material has become more abrasive in the absence of asbestos.

Your claim that your delivery driving abuses your rotors more than a HPDE/open track sessions might says much for your driving style. You're over-driving the car, and abusing it in the process. Calm down, brake a little earlier and smooth your inputs; your brakes will last quite a bit longer. I also drive for a living (heavy trucks), so any excuses you might want to make won't fly here.


As for EBC rotors, those are generally held to be an excellent aftermarket rotor for the Focus. Their Greenstuff pads, not so much.

No need, really, to machine the rotors. If they are worn less than the minimum thickness (but no more than 75%), just swap new pads into the calipers and bleed the entire system of old fluid with new.

[zlarson]

I have been running EBC sport rotors on my 03 zx3 with Hawk HP+ pads and the stopping power is great. I have noticed very minimal wear on the rotors over the last 6K miles.

[MichaelXi]

I love the ebc rotors, but I feel that there's no point to turning them.
Unless you've driven them with the backing plates gouging into the rotors instead of pad material, you should be able to just swap pads and do an aggressive bedding process and be good to go.
Most brand new modern rotors on passenger cars are too thin to "turn" after a relatively short time on the road.

[ladybug04]

personally, your rotors arent warped. throw a fresh set of pads, and find a good straight stretch of road that isnt heavily used, and do a bed-in this should take care of any "vibration" you are experiencing.

heres the procedure...

get up to 60 MPH, then brake at about 90% braking force(do not lock up the wheels) to about 10 MPH, then jump on the gas again, back up to 60, repeat 10x. let the brakes cool completely, and do not come to a full stop with the brakes. then repeat the process again. when you are done rotors will have a blueish look to them. this is good. you have successfully transferred pad material to the rotors.

if you ever tart getting a vibration do this process, and itll help. oh and dont forget to bleed the brake system when done, that fluid usually will boil, or come close to it, and youll want fresh fluid in the lines

bryan

[brads03zx3]

Yeah, can't say your driving is harder than my own. I really have no idea how old my rotors are. They were on the car when I bought it 14,000 miles ago. I know they've gone through 2 sets of Hawk HP+ pads and nearly and entire set of Hawk Blue pads. I've completed about 10 autocross events and half a dozen track days. My rotors are still not 'warped.' I've used OEM, brembo, EBC, and BAT european rotors with great success. I avoid autozone specials like the plague.

To answer your question, I would not resurface your rotors. If they are in fact warped, just get new ones. I've gone the cheap route on other peoples' cars (at their will) and the brakes were vibrating within 5,000 miles. I would suggest a more progressive bedding procedure than was suggested above. Starting at about 35 mph, I increase my speeds by 10 mph and progressively increase my braking pressures. For example, normal stop (not your crazy, I-have-to-be-in-and-out-in-25-seconds stop) from 35-10 (don't come to a stop), then accelerate normally to 45-10 mph with slightly more pressure, 55-10 etc. My last stop is on a long private driveway from 80 mph at threshold braking. If you aren't smelling brakes you are doing it wrong. They are typically smoking before this and braking torque is significantly improved. I then drive around for another 5-10 minutes touching the brakes as little as possible and never coming to a complete stop. Eventually park the car at the house and let it cool completely. The bedding procedure is complete.

[MichaelXi]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

and progressively increase my braking pressures. For example, normal stop (not your crazy, I-have-to-be-in-and-out-in-25-seconds stop) from 35-10 (don't come to a stop), then accelerate normally to 45-10 mph with slightly more pressure, 55-10 etc. My last stop is on a long private driveway from 80 mph at threshold braking. If you aren't smelling brakes you are doing it wrong. They are typically smoking before this and braking torque is significantly improved. I then drive around for another 5-10 minutes touching the brakes as little as possible and never coming to a complete stop. Eventually park the car at the house and let it cool completely. The bedding procedure is complete.

I bolded the Biggie that Ladybug Left Out, but Brad's additions are Excellent.
If you keep the bedding up until you have "Fade", you're Done. You'll Probably get to the "Stink" First, depending on your pads, but you need to get to at least one of the two before you begin the "Cooldown Procedure".
Brad's Write-Up is GREAT.
Just remember to leave plenty of room in case that Fade surprises you.

[smokethebear]

Thanks a bunch guys.

As I mentioned, I usually just replace my rotors when I do the pads anyway. I haven't had any bad experience with Autozone rotors; it's their pads that I won't touch. (SUPER scary experience with a set of Duralast Gold pads, and they weren't even that cheap.)

I'm pretty sure that the EBC rotors have lasted longer than the Autozones though. That could just be because the Mintex pads the EBCs came with had less bite and were easier on the rotors.

The rotors on the Focus are so small, I know that they just aren't prone to long life simply by their tiny design. Too much heat for not enough metal, vented or not. I know that the car's weight makes for not a lot of braking requirements, but the Focus was not made for lazy driving, and should have came with more brake.

I'm just gonna go with the cheaper of the two options. Time to make some calls...

[TolusD]

I did my last bed-in on on the I 80 toll road through Cleveland. I work in Akron so I drive 40 miles each way every day. I also work nights so when my shift ends at 1 AM I pretty much have the road to myself. I just turn on my emergency flashers and get in the slow lane. Once I finish I have a good 20 minute cool down before I get home. It works well... that is unless you have the aforementioned Duralast Gold pads like I currently do. Then your bed-in is shot to hell after 3 or 4 days of regular driving and your rotors have more glaze than a Krispy Kreme tanker truck. I'll never put another set of those pads on anything ever again.

I just got myself a complete set of BAT's EBC rotors + Mintex pads for the ST. I'm hoping to see a vast improvement once I get them installed. I can't wait to bed them in though. The first time I touch the brakes after a bed in is at the off 80 off ramp to my exit. Call me whatever you like but the suspense is something I enjoy.

[Johnny_P]

you'd have to measure thickness with a caliper to determine if you need new rotors... then you compare that measurement to the retirement thickness

[brads03zx3]

Originally Posted by MichaelXi

If you keep the bedding up until you have "Fade", you're Done.

Good info Michael. I didn't include the 'Fade' info because I have ever only experienced fade with the HP+ pads a single time, and that was fluid fade, not pad fade. Maybe I should have flushed the fluid before the 8th autocross

[jorge.bueras]

I tried EBC rotors and the Green Stuff pads and would never go back. They, like yourself, needed to be replaced after only 10,xxx miles of use. I mainly did freeway driving and would never stop on the dime on the rotors. The rotors and pads for some reason just didn't like my car.

I switched to Powerslot rotors and Hawk Pads, and by far its way better than stock and definitely better that EBC brakes.

Hope this helps.

[brads03zx3]

Green stuff pads are aweful. Their rotors are not bad.

[SecretAgentMan2k]

Well, I have the BAT Mintex pads and EBC rotors. They worked dutifully for about 70k. I can't say they performed that much better than stock other then the longevity.

It's now time to get a brake job. I really don't have the time to do it myself, so I'm having a dealership do it for $180 with turning the rotors. Sounds like a fair price.

Not resurfacing seems pretty contrary to everything I've heard before. In my case, I think I have to because there's a nice channel around the rotor from the pad. I'd replace the rotors if I could get something reasonably priced by tomorrow, but that's not going to happen. Hopefully all will be ok with the resurfaced EBC rotors since this is now just a commuter vehicle.

[TolusD]

Originally Posted by SecretAgentMan2k

I'd replace the rotors if I could get something reasonably priced by tomorrow, but that's not going to happen. Hopefully all will be ok with the resurfaced EBC rotors since this is now just a commuter vehicle.

I gots a set for you for cheap if you're still interested.

http://forums.focaljet.com/handling/...s-00-04-a.html

[the gob]

Originally Posted by smokethebear

My car is used for delivery purposes over 30hrs. weekly; I'd wager my brakes see a lot more abuse than many of the cars that actually do events on here.

Besides, the 10k was only with the rotors that came with my car; never went back to Ford stock, and have had good brake life ever since.

Would you happen to have any experience with EBC rotors by any chance??

BUMP!!! been there dont that brotha! i was eatin more brakes than i was pizza

[xFOCIx]

Originally Posted by smokethebear

I usually replace my rotors when I replace my pads on my 2004 ZX3; the Ford rotors are softer than my stomach and my OEMs warped within 8k miles of having them turned once after my first brake job.

But you're using it as a delivery vehicle, which isn't a normal use. The life you're getting isn't bad when you're actually using the brake just as much as 50,000 miles of NORMAL driving.

Maybe change your driving habits. When coming up to a light, coast. After you do a significant stop, let off the brakes and let it roll to help it cool evenly and downshift to hold the speed while going down a hill.

[age]

Originally Posted by xFOCIx

downshift to hold the speed while going down a hill.

i used to think that was a good idea. but then you have to consider, brakes are cheap and easy to replace, engines are not. so i'd much rather punish the brakes.

[04silverzx3]

theres nothing wrong with using your engine compression for braking while going down a hill. downshifting without rev matching will wear your clutch disc more because of the abrupt change in speeds from the engine and the tranny, but there is no more strain on the driveline from using engine compression to brake, not only that but in that situation the injectors are turned off so you arent using any fuel. not only that but if you go down a hill riding your brakes they heat up quite a bit, both the pad and the rotor. and once you come to a stop your pads clamp down onto the rotors which actually leads to warping them so in fact by using engine braking you are saving your brakes and also saving fuel.

[xFOCIx]

Originally Posted by age

i used to think that was a good idea. but then you have to consider, brakes are cheap and easy to replace, engines are not. so i'd much rather punish the brakes.

It's one thing to downshift to come to a stop. I agree this should be avoided, unless you're approaching a red light. Only reason to do it is if you're coming to a red, but you predict it will turn green by the time you get to it and you want to be ready to accelerate away.

Using the brakes to coast down a hill is a completely different thing. The thermal capacity of brakes are quite limited and they will heat up faster than they can cool down when you ride the brakes down a long hill. This is in addition to wear. If the brakes get hot enough, they will fade and you might crash.

The absorbed energy from engine braking goes out the tail pipe and the radiator, so the thermal capacity is practically unlimited.