Rear Drums Drag, help plz

[mikebrown]

Just did a complete brake overhaul. Got new calipers pads and rotors for the front and all went smooth sailing, 10 minute install and they work great.

Rear drums where a pain in my rear but i replaced the shoes (same shoes to the same side) I matched up each shoe and they are exactly the right ones and in the right spot. I did not mess that up. I also changed all hardware springs etc. Also all in the right place looked exactly like stock.

The drums came with wheel bearing already in them (am I supposed to grease them?) i know normally you pack the wheel bearings with grease and their is a tool for it but if yuou dont have a tool you can use the palm full of grease method and pack it by hand but the bearing where already shipped installed in the drum. Do i need to pack them or are they good already when they come like this?

So anywho, i put the drums on after all else was done. I had the star wheel adjusted to the lowest (smallest) setting i could get them to, but the brakes still seem a little too wide apart as my drum barely slid onto it and is kinda difficult to turn by hand. They rub. On the test drive it seems to be fine and you can barely notice the drag. However the drums where overheating and i didnt want to glaze the brand new shoes.
The star wheel is asjusted to the smallest, all parts are brand new and installed right. What am i missing here? Also the e-brake doesnt seem to work. when you rip the e-brake up. It makes the brakes drag MORE, but not enough to hold the vehicle in place even on a slight incline. Also i notcied when pulling the ebrake, the mechanism under the drum does go to the end of its travel, yet it is not enough. I tried driving in reverse while breaking but it didnt seem to make anything better.

Another thing i noted was that when i compressed the wheel cylinder pistons in the back with my fingers, they automatically opened back up.

Is that normal operation? I know when you hit the brakes the pistons expand out and when you release they recoil back in. And mine still do, do that. When you press breaks they expand when you let go they go back but not completely, then if you force them back the rest of the way they recoil back OUT to what kinda seems like a default position but maybe not. The only things i didnt swap was the rear wheel cylinders and the auto adjuster / star wheel assembly as i cannot find new ones to purchase. (cylinders i can they only $12 each, I meant the star wheel adjuster assembly)

Soooo to sum it up
Drums dont fit whell and are tight causing Shoes to drag on drums
E-brake increase drag but wont stop car, even though the mechanism (metal bracket on shoe) goes to its max travel
Wheel cylinders automatically push out when compressed in.

Any help or ideas? i was thinking about machining the brand new drums on a lathe or taking a dremel to the hooks of the shoes that the wheel cylnders act against but i would rather fix it the right way if I can first.

Oh yea and i bled the brakes correctly their is no air in lines and it is not an issue, break is very firm and stops good when asked to.

[fruitport_focus]

There is a small internal spring in the wheel cyl that causes the pistons to expand (move outward). The brake shoe return springs are more than strong enough to over come these internal springs. There was no star wheel on my rear brakes, only a rachet type adjuster. The cam should be rotated to shorten the adjuster link. The E-Brake must be backed off completely and the self adjuster backed off all the way. The drums should slide right on. Assemble, pump the brakes several times and then adjust the e-brake.

[mikebrown]

Originally Posted by fruitport_focus

There is a small internal spring in the wheel cyl that causes the pistons to expand (move outward). The brake shoe return springs are more than strong enough to over come these internal springs. There was no star wheel on my rear brakes, only a rachet type adjuster. The cam should be rotated to shorten the adjuster link. The E-Brake must be backed off completely and the self adjuster backed off all the way. The drums should slide right on. Assemble, pump the brakes several times and then adjust the e-brake.

What do you mean by the cam should be rotated to shorten the adjuster link. yea it wasn't a starwheel per say but it had a round pole like shaft with ridges all around and theirs a tiny spring their too, I kinda wedged a flathead screw drive between that post and the teeth of the quarter circle shaped piece that moves in and out and pride lightly to adjust it short or long. Is that the cam you speak of? I did adjust this thing to its shortest travel. I didnt back off the ebrake cable cuz i didnt think it would be a problem. Also if the ebrake is tighter to start with how come it doesnt work at all when i pull it? it increases drag but wont work. Car is driveable but will overheat rear brakes

[mikebrown]

bump

[brads03zx3]

Sounds like your e-brake handle adjustment needs to be backed off if you already adjusted it at the rear brake. And it isn't uncommon for the ebrake to work poorly at first, until the shoes are bedded in. Did you spray your brake drums with brake cleaner before installing them? They are usually shipped with an oil coating so they don't rust, and that is terrible for your brake shoes.

[mikebrown]

Originally Posted by brads03zx3

Sounds like your e-brake handle adjustment needs to be backed off if you already adjusted it at the rear brake. And it isn't uncommon for the ebrake to work poorly at first, until the shoes are bedded in. Did you spray your brake drums with brake cleaner before installing them? They are usually shipped with an oil coating so they don't rust, and that is terrible for your brake shoes.

Yup did the ol brake clean on the mating surfaces of rotors and drums. I am gonna look into the ebrake I guess.
The only 3 places i can think of that are causing the issue is the ebrake handle, the auto adjuster assembly, or the wheel cylinder if the pistons are not suppose to expand by themselves when compressed all the way. Because thats what they do, and im not sure if thats normal cuz i never really noticed or tried oberseving that on other vehicles, i just do the job and they normally work fine.

If neither of those things work i was gonna grind down the tabs of where the wheel cylinder acts on the shoes, and/ or a combination of that and machining the drums on a lathe.

Do you think those solutions would be ok?

[brads03zx3]

No, don't do any grinding (unless you find the new parts to be out of tolerance). Figure out the actual problem.

[stephens]

I think you should start from scratch. Bleed off all the pressure at the wheel cylinders so the pistons of the wheel cylinders are relaxed in. Then make sure you have all the appropriate springs and whatnot on the shoes and the adjusters should be backed off so that the shoes are not in contact with the drum at all when you slide the drums back on. Then bleed the brakes and set your parking brake up.

Brakes are kinda important so if you're not 100% sure you've got it right, go to a shop.