There is hope for N/A Zetec's

[OmniFocus]

...just be aware that you won't be doing this on a "streetable" car.

That "firewall" mod isn't actually a firewall. It is a plastic housing for the ductwork and the wipers... so if you don't need wipers, you've got PLENTY of room.

That's more or less what I've been suggesting to do for years now.

[slverfocus13]

im still debating whether to go to N/A with ITBs or just wait till F2 comes out with their turbo kit for the Zetec...i want to go N/A just because no one else has really done a fully N/A Zetec build

[silveib]

^ there might be a reason for that.
not to say that you cant get good performance out of an NA zetec, you can just get better performance out of an FI zetec.
for example my friend bought a 240SX. for 1500 bucks he did a complete SR20 swap and now runs 14.5.
he could of used that money to build a decent 2.4L..... but why? it will be slower for the same money....

[slverfocus13]

^^^ok thats true but how many fully built with ITBs N/A Zetecs do you ever see? one out of 2000 maybe thats why i want to do it plus N/A you have the power there the whole time, every time with waiting for boost but to each his own

i also have a 240sx that im going to swap in a SR20 into it

[sleeperlove]

Originally Posted by slverfocus13

^^^ok thats true but how many fully built with ITBs N/A Zetecs do you ever see? one out of 2000 maybe thats why i want to do it plus N/A you have the power there the whole time, every time with waiting for boost but to each his own

i also have a 240sx that im going to swap in a SR20 into it

NA power isn't just there. That 200hp you might make will be at for maybe a few hundred RPM. You won't have 200hp or even 175 below 5000rpm most likely. Where as a turbo car can have full boost and probably 250ft/lbs and 250 hp at 5000. If you look at some of the d23 NA dynos, they are not all that different power wise from the stock graph until the revs start getting up there. NA is certainly not instant power.


Despite the extreme cool factor that these have what is the real cost.

10k+ to get the engine built and get these working? for 200hp. Is it really worth it for the "cool" factor?

[slverfocus13]

ok but it doesnt matter because im going to probably sell my focus (just decided last night) and get a Kawasaki Ninja zx-6r or a Yamaha yzf-r6

[COSitsWORTHit]

That company has been around for awhile. I already emailed them about the itb kit and every thing and by the time your done with shipping your looking at about 5k for the kit and everything you need to install.....

But you'll also need...tuning etc.

[silveib]

itb's are cool, but you know whats not cool, getting smoked by a dude with a 3000$ turbo setup when you spent 6000 going with a full NA setup......
and if you want instant power go with a roots style supercharger al-la JRSC or PWSC

[Random]

Originally Posted by silveib

itb's are cool, but you know whats not cool, getting smoked by a dude with a 3000$ turbo setup when you spent 6000 going with a full NA setup......
and if you want instant power go with a roots style supercharger al-la JRSC or PWSC

Wrong mate... about the last part. There is virtually no lag in some turbo's. You can have power on tap and not be limited by the supercharger.

Kyle

[G-forces]

Originally Posted by silveib

itb's are cool, but you know whats not cool, getting smoked by a dude with a 3000$ turbo setup when you spent 6000 going with a full NA setup......
and if you want instant power go with a roots style supercharger al-la JRSC or PWSC

I get your point, sort of. It takes more money to make the same power with NA than it takes with FI, but that's far from the whole story.

If you arrive at the same power then nobody smokes anybody. However, it's easier to get power from FI, but you had better spend allot more money on FI than just the price of a turbo kit and a tune. If not, the NA car will smoke the FI car while it sits dead-still on the side of the road. You should have said... 'spending the same $6000 on a turbo will let you smoke a $6000 NA set-up.' Cheap power gives short-lived results, in your example I'd rather have the NA car.

[silveib]

you are absolutely right, good reliable power isn't cheap.
But you also have to look at the streatability of an all NA zetec. As it has been said before if you are going to make high HP without FI you are both going to loose streetability and the power is going to be all up top.
a turbo zetec with 250 whp will easily make 250 wtq
a NA zetec with 250 whp MIGHT make 200wtq (not that ive ever even seen that, because i dont realistically think its possible)
there is a difference there......
i dont want to bash NA zetecs because i currently have one myself, i am just saying if you are going to go balls-to-the-wall then go FI
mild to moderate NA builds make sense... but thats about it

[Random]

Originally Posted by silveib

you are absolutely right, good reliable power isn't cheap.
But you also have to look at the streatability of an all NA zetec. As it has been said before if you are going to make high HP without FI you are both going to loose streetability and the power is going to be all up top.
a turbo zetec with 250 whp will easily make 250 wtq
a NA zetec with 250 whp MIGHT make 200wtq (not that ive ever even seen that, because i dont realistically think its possible)
there is a difference there......
i dont want to bash NA zetecs because i currently have one myself, i am just saying if you are going to go balls-to-the-wall then go FI
mild to moderate NA builds make sense... but thats about it

True to some extent, but in the wide picture anything over 300ish is useless in our cars. Our cars are not meant for high high horse power and def not for drag racing.

Kyle

[Random]

Originally Posted by G-forces

.......

If you arrive at the same power then nobody smokes anybody. .

If you arrive at the same power then nobody smokes anybody. However, it's easier to get power from FI, but you had better spend allot more money on FI than just the price of a turbo kit and a tune. If not, the NA car will smoke the FI car while it sits dead-still on the side of the road. You should have said... 'spending the same $6000 on a turbo will let you smoke a $6000 NA set-up.' ....

Not true, its all about where the power is made. If both cars make 700hp, but one car makes it at 5k and another makes it at 7k... We all know whats going to happen.

A N/A build on a 4 banger will lose to a turbo 4 banger in theory of straight line power (in the focus)

Also, with the right tune and set up a FI focus would not be breaking down on the side of road and still beat the N/A

[G-forces]

Originally Posted by Random

Not true, its all about where the power is made. If both cars make 700hp, but one car makes it at 5k and another makes it at 7k... We all know whats going to happen.

A N/A build on a 4 banger will lose to a turbo 4 banger in theory of straight line power (in the focus)

Also, with the right tune and set up a FI focus would not be breaking down on the side of road and still beat the N/A

I thought someone would say that. That's mostly true (about the torque to hp ratio and all and the extent of the power curves), but it's not just about where the power is made, but also how you apply it. Close ratios with the right total gearing can let you stay in a peaky power band and use it just fine. Of course you have the frequent-shift dead time, but if you're good...

Your last statement makes my point, "...the right... set-up", which is quite expensive if you don't want to burn it or blow it up. Just putting on a turbo and getting a great tune won't allow your car to last very long. Maybe not in the first several races, but at some time the NA will pass the turbo... when it's stopped ... if you don't take care of the internals too.

[Random]

Internals? What are those?

jk, ya man I agree

Kyle

[sleeperlove]

The only difference between the 2 cost wise is that you pay 4-5k for a turbo or 5k for the ITBs.

With both (especially the ITBs) you need internals, and with the NA build head work and cams are a MUST. Then if you add that close ratio transmission figure another what, 5k+?

With winning a race, if the cars both make 250hp then the top speed would be near the same but the turbo car would get there much faster having tons of available torque.

[RideRed0331]

Is there any chance someone in europe makes a 90* ITB setup, or even a one-off. I'd say that fixes all the firewall/engine tilt issues, but now the issue is making one, lol.

[G-forces]

Originally Posted by sleeperlove

The only difference between the 2 cost wise is that you pay 4-5k for a turbo or 5k for the ITBs.

With both (especially the ITBs) you need internals, and with the NA build head work and cams are a MUST. Then if you add that close ratio transmission figure another what, 5k+?

With winning a race, if the cars both make 250hp then the top speed would be near the same but the turbo car would get there much faster having tons of available torque.

Finally got back to my pute with the link... Check this out:

http://nwseven.info/adapting_suzuki_...le_bodies_.htm

You could do that for way under $2K, even with the machining cost and adapting velocity stacks. And there are some other complete kits (links posted in a different thread) that come in between $1500 and 2500.

Can't argue with the rest. The choice is a matter of taste. I've seen both NA and turbo engines blow up before, but turbos burn-up more often.

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Hi guys new to the site here but i came across this page in a google search and thought i would post a few pictures of my project








It should do 260+@ the flywheel

[G-forces]

Very nice! Super clean firewall. This would have fit nicely with another thread a while ago. I haven't seen a set-up quite like this. And can't see the internals, lol.

What compression? What are you pumping into the second fuel rail? Phew, lots of questions, lol.

[K STYLEZ]

Cool! Thats the Piper airbox. Fits wonderfully!

What is the chassis? Escort of some kind, right?

[hEaT]

Amazing motor. Any picture of the header? Does it have a collector right at the head or down farther like a "long tube"?

[ZetecEuropa]

Looks like top feed injectors...very cool.

I see lots of inflated costs for N/A ITBs in this thread. There are ways of getting off cheaper if you're willing to do some work:

Jenvey ITBs: $1,200
Zetec DCOE manifold: $300
Airbox: $200
Megasquirt Engine Management with harness: $400

I did it for around $2,000. Nowhere close to $5,000.
You could go even cheaper with GSXR ITBs and a cut down SVT intake manifold.

I like the instant throttle response with the ITBs. But I think if I had a Focus, I'd go with boost. There's more potential. It's just not practical in my application though...for one thing, plumbing an intercooler to the front of a mid engine car is complicated.

[theindustrialist]

I trust a few people may have already seen this...

Pics borrowed from FF. I can always de-link if someone has a problem with it.

In US figures : 227WHP@7500 and 192.5lb/ft@6125


2.0 early Zetec engine block (silvertop)
86mm(1,5mm oversize) wiseco 12.5:1 comp ratio 2050cc
Eagle rods
lightened and balanced standard crankshaft
Focus ST170/SVT Head
ported
thre angle valve job (factory valves 33,5mm and 28mm)
CatCams 293/285 degres with 12.75/12.25mm lift with VCT delete
Exhaust
factory Focus ST170/SVT header heat wraped
3" exhaust
intake/injection
hayabusa individuall throttle bodies enlarged by 2mm
Megasquirt ECU
440cc injectors
cooling
Davies Craig electric water pump with controller



"I'm aiming for 250WHP on the same setup with some more tweaking"

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/s...d.php?t=188846

[Andrew@A.L.D]

Originally Posted by G-forces

Very nice! Super clean firewall. This would have fit nicely with another thread a while ago. I haven't seen a set-up quite like this. And can't see the internals, lol.

What compression? What are you pumping into the second fuel rail? Phew, lots of questions, lol.

13:1

330cc injectors for the 2nd bank and 200cc for the first bank