Short block - forged or cast? - The Ford Focus Forum

**dhardison** · 10-22-2009, 01:17 PM

I'm looking to purchase the Zetec short block shown in the pics below. This guys doesn't have a lot of info about the short block except it was built for a turbo application (8.0:1 dish pistons) and supposedly able to withstand 500hp. He also says the rods are forged "Eagle" and pistons are forged "JE".

I know it's a long-shot but from the pics below can anyone verify that info (i.e. Eagle rods and JE pistons). Also if you see anything else suspicious please speak up.

http://www.danhardison.com/misc/motor1.jpg
http://www.danhardison.com/misc/motor2.jpg

Thanks,
Dan

**WRCwannabe** · 10-22-2009, 01:29 PM

zetec and svt blocks are all cast iron

**dhardison** · 10-22-2009, 01:34 PM

^^no, not the block itself, but the rods and pistons.

**Ja-Red** · 10-22-2009, 02:25 PM

Those are not eagle h beam rods. Not sure about the pistons.

It also does not have arp main studs which should be a red flag. I highly doubt the stock bolts will hold 500 hp

**dhardison** · 10-22-2009, 02:33 PM

Thanks Ja-Red. Good catch on the main bolts. Doesn't Eagle make forged i-beam rods for the Zetec as well?

**Ja-Red** · 10-22-2009, 02:43 PM

Not that I have ever seen for a zetec. I guess they could be, but unless this is just a helofa deal I dont know that I would want to risk it. How much power are you trying to push?

**dhardison** · 10-22-2009, 02:53 PM

^^350-400whp

**pzev04boy** · 10-22-2009, 03:33 PM

Its possible they are a custom rod. Oliver uses a similar cap design.

Those can't be JE pistons unless they were a custom order.

Those could be oem RS focus pistons & rods. That motor was 8.0:1 CR IIRC.

Plus that compression is way too low for a roots blower. Unless you are planning switching to turbo.

**pzev04boy** · 10-22-2009, 04:09 PM

Just made a phone call Oliver does make rods for the zetec!!!!

Those are definetly oliver rods based on the cap design. $800 A set!!!

Part number F5482ZTEC

The pistons are still unknown but they must be forged if they are being used with a full floating rod.

Also someone must have spent a lot on this shortblock.

It may be worth it to buy. Although you would need to dissassemble and send the block to the machine shop with arp main studs to be Line honed with the studs.

**dhardison** · 10-22-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzev04boy

Its possible they are a custom rod. Oliver uses a similar cap design.

Those can't be JE pistons unless they were a custom order.

Those could be oem RS focus pistons & rods. That motor was 8.0:1 CR IIRC.

Plus that compression is way too low for a roots blower. Unless you are planning switching to turbo.

Turbo is the plan.

**dhardison** · 10-22-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzev04boy

Just made a phone call Oliver does make rods for the zetec!!!!

Those are definetly oliver rods based on the cap design. $800 A set!!!

Part number F5482ZTEC

The pistons are still unknown but they must be forged if they are being used with a full floating rod.

Also someone must have spent a lot on this shortblock.

It may be worth it to buy. Although you would need to dissassemble and send the block to the machine shop with arp main studs to be Line honed with the studs.

Sweet! Thanks for the confirmation! This block was assembled by the now defunct VT Competition Engine Development in Lansing, MI. Ever heard of them or know anything about their work??

Thanks,
Dan

**Ja-Red** · 10-22-2009, 05:17 PM

Good to see someone had the info you were looking for.

**starfuryt550** · 10-23-2009, 12:32 AM

Those pistons do look like they could be Probe pistons...i have similar ones, but its kinda hard to tell from the blurry pics.

you can, though, rule off Supertech and wiseco pistons, they don't look like that.

**pzev04boy** · 10-23-2009, 12:56 AM

They do look like Je pistons but JE doesn't make a super low compression off the shelf.

**dhardison** · 10-23-2009, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzev04boy

It may be worth it to buy. Although you would need to dissassemble and send the block to the machine shop with arp main studs to be Line honed with the studs.

Tell me more about this please. In the past (on SB/BB Chevys) I've installed main studs on factory caps without line honing the main journals. Is this 100% necessary with the Zetec?

Thanks,
Dan

**dhardison** · 10-23-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pzev04boy

They do look like Je pistons but JE doesn't make a super low compression off the shelf.

My bad. The seller stated they are "CP" brand pistons, NOT "JE" brand. However I looked at the CP catalog and didn't find any Zetec pistons being offered. They do physically look a lot like JE pistons though.

Looks like the block has decent internals, but I'd feel better if they seller actually knew what he had instead of trying to determine by the physical looks....

**blackbird** · 10-23-2009, 09:24 AM

If they are custom CP pistons you shouldn't have any issue with them. They make nice pistons that are right up there with most of the other aftermarket forged slugs from reputable companies. I'd say if that is what the piston/rod combo is and you could get a good enough deal you'd have a nice start to bottom end for those power levels. Though if the seller isn't sure what they have I'd think that would dictate the price somewhat since you're not 100% sure what you're getting and what may need to be done to bring it up to spec for a high output Focus.

**topspeedfab** · 10-23-2009, 09:25 AM

If he had custom rods made the pistons are probably custom too.

**pzev04boy** · 10-23-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by topspeedfab

If he had custom rods made the pistons are probably custom too.

They could be cp pistons. But it's funny that the seller doesn't know what he has.

Btw The rods are not custom. According to Oliver they are a production piece and they sell a lot in europe.

**Lancer211** · 10-23-2009, 11:45 AM

That's quite a short block...

**dhardison** · 10-23-2009, 12:09 PM

What about having to line hone the main journals if I go with ARP main studs (see post #15 above). Tell me more about this please. In the past (on SB/BB Chevys) I've installed main studs on factory caps without line honing the main journals. Is this 100% necessary with the Zetec?

**pzev04boy** · 10-23-2009, 12:36 PM

When you use studs you put a higher load on the caps. When you do this it requires a line hone to ensure everything is happy and won't cause any premature bearing failure. Given that the zetec is a modern engine(when compared to a sbc) with tighter oil clearances and tolerances, you may have gotten away with it on a small block but you really shouldn't risk it on this motor. Especially since it will probably rev about 1500-1800 rpm higher than a small block.

The good news about the block you are looking at is that it appears balanced.

I've seen a few engines spin main bearings from not being line honed when switching to studs.

**dhardison** · 10-23-2009, 12:47 PM

^^

Thanks for the clarification/info. After it's been line honed, can I just reuse the existing main bearings?

**pzev04boy** · 10-23-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhardison

^^

Thanks for the clarification/info. After it's been line honed, can I just reuse the existing main bearings?

Yes, if they are new.

**dhardison** · 10-25-2009, 08:59 PM

Well, I worked out a "SMOKIN' HOT" deal with the seller and drove to MI today to get the short block. It appears to be a very well assembled, balanced assembly with high-quality forged rods & pistons. I'm going to look in to swapping out the factory main bolts for ARP studs, but other than that it's good to go. I measured the bore and it's .007" over (85mm).

Here are some pics:
http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04260_sm.JPG
http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04261_sm.JPG
http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04262_sm.JPG
http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04263_sm.JPG
http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04264_sm.JPG
http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04265_sm.JPG

I can't wait to get this installed and a turbo pushing boost through it!

Dan

10-22-2009, 01:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Short block - forged or cast? I'm looking to purchase the Zetec short block shown in the pics below. This guys doesn't have a lot of info about the short block except it was built for a turbo application (8.0:1 dish pistons) and supposedly able to withstand 500hp. He also says the rods are forged "Eagle" and pistons are forged "JE". I know it's a long-shot but from the pics below can anyone verify that info (i.e. Eagle rods and JE pistons). Also if you see anything else suspicious please speak up. http://www.danhardison.com/misc/motor1.jpg http://www.danhardison.com/misc/motor2.jpg Thanks, Dan __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd) Last edited by dhardison; 10-22-2009 at 01:34 PM.

10-22-2009, 01:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
WRCwannabe TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 921	Re: Short block - forged or cast? zetec and svt blocks are all cast iron __________________ Wings & Teeth ™ ("I'm U.S. with a little bit of U.K. swagger" ™ )

10-22-2009, 01:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Re: Short block - forged or cast? ^^no, not the block itself, but the rods and pistons. __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd)

10-22-2009, 02:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Re: Short block - forged or cast? Thanks Ja-Red. Good catch on the main bolts. Doesn't Eagle make forged i-beam rods for the Zetec as well? __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd)

10-22-2009, 02:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Re: Short block - forged or cast? ^^350-400whp __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd)

10-22-2009, 03:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
pzev04boy Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Round Lake, IL Posts: 3,191	Re: Short block - forged or cast? Its possible they are a custom rod. Oliver uses a similar cap design. Those can't be JE pistons unless they were a custom order. Those could be oem RS focus pistons & rods. That motor was 8.0:1 CR IIRC. Plus that compression is way too low for a roots blower. Unless you are planning switching to turbo. __________________ 03 Zetec ATX E&S TURBO SYSTEMS powered sedan 00 Mustang Gt - Built motor - Soon to be Single turbo 07 Ninja 500R Building 640cc race motor. Last edited by pzev04boy; 10-22-2009 at 04:04 PM.

10-22-2009, 04:09 PM	#9 (permalink)
pzev04boy Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Round Lake, IL Posts: 3,191	Re: Short block - forged or cast? Just made a phone call Oliver does make rods for the zetec!!!! Those are definetly oliver rods based on the cap design. $800 A set!!! Part number F5482ZTEC The pistons are still unknown but they must be forged if they are being used with a full floating rod. Also someone must have spent a lot on this shortblock. It may be worth it to buy. Although you would need to dissassemble and send the block to the machine shop with arp main studs to be Line honed with the studs. __________________ 03 Zetec ATX E&S TURBO SYSTEMS powered sedan 00 Mustang Gt - Built motor - Soon to be Single turbo 07 Ninja 500R Building 640cc race motor. Last edited by pzev04boy; 10-22-2009 at 04:18 PM.

10-23-2009, 12:32 AM	#13 (permalink)
starfuryt550 TEAM Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Michigan Posts: 600	Re: Short block - forged or cast? Those pistons do look like they could be Probe pistons...i have similar ones, but its kinda hard to tell from the blurry pics. you can, though, rule off Supertech and wiseco pistons, they don't look like that.

10-23-2009, 12:56 AM	#14 (permalink)
pzev04boy Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Round Lake, IL Posts: 3,191	Re: Short block - forged or cast? They do look like Je pistons but JE doesn't make a super low compression off the shelf. __________________ 03 Zetec ATX E&S TURBO SYSTEMS powered sedan 00 Mustang Gt - Built motor - Soon to be Single turbo 07 Ninja 500R Building 640cc race motor.

10-23-2009, 09:24 AM	#17 (permalink)
blackbird Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SoCal (High Desert) Posts: 1,349	Re: Short block - forged or cast? If they are custom CP pistons you shouldn't have any issue with them. They make nice pistons that are right up there with most of the other aftermarket forged slugs from reputable companies. I'd say if that is what the piston/rod combo is and you could get a good enough deal you'd have a nice start to bottom end for those power levels. Though if the seller isn't sure what they have I'd think that would dictate the price somewhat since you're not 100% sure what you're getting and what may need to be done to bring it up to spec for a high output Focus. __________________ Eric H. '04 SVTF (Screaming Yellow/EAP ZX3) - '02 SVTF (CD Silver - Vortech-equipped) '92 Dodge Daytona IROC R/T - '81 & '85 Chevy Citation X-11 - '93 Olds Achieva SCX W41 (x2) plus a Cobalt, a Neon, and a bunch of other stuff...

10-23-2009, 09:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
topspeedfab Premier Sponsor Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 297	Re: Short block - forged or cast? If he had custom rods made the pistons are probably custom too. __________________ Bryan Emanuel @ Top Speed (252) 321-6356 Top Speed, INC \| Our eBay Store \| Top Speed Online Store \| Blog \| Contact Us Be sure to check out our daily blog updates! Top Speed Turbo Kit makes 325whp on stock ZETEC!

10-23-2009, 11:45 AM	#20 (permalink)
Lancer211 Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,330	Re: Short block - forged or cast? That's quite a short block... __________________ For sale: Eibach Pro-Kit springs, sedan taillight, lower grille, DPFE, EVR, MAFS, side markers, trunk handle, fuel door, gas pedal, headlight switch, AC/vent/defrost button, hazard switch, ashtray, silver console bezel, HVAC controls. 2004 infrared Focus SE Zetec ATX sedan "Ruby" CarDomain Page

10-23-2009, 12:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Re: Short block - forged or cast? What about having to line hone the main journals if I go with ARP main studs (see post #15 above). Tell me more about this please. In the past (on SB/BB Chevys) I've installed main studs on factory caps without line honing the main journals. Is this 100% necessary with the Zetec? __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd)

10-23-2009, 12:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
pzev04boy Senior TEAM Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Round Lake, IL Posts: 3,191	Re: Short block - forged or cast? When you use studs you put a higher load on the caps. When you do this it requires a line hone to ensure everything is happy and won't cause any premature bearing failure. Given that the zetec is a modern engine(when compared to a sbc) with tighter oil clearances and tolerances, you may have gotten away with it on a small block but you really shouldn't risk it on this motor. Especially since it will probably rev about 1500-1800 rpm higher than a small block. The good news about the block you are looking at is that it appears balanced. I've seen a few engines spin main bearings from not being line honed when switching to studs. __________________ 03 Zetec ATX E&S TURBO SYSTEMS powered sedan 00 Mustang Gt - Built motor - Soon to be Single turbo 07 Ninja 500R Building 640cc race motor.

10-23-2009, 12:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Re: Short block - forged or cast? ^^ Thanks for the clarification/info. After it's been line honed, can I just reuse the existing main bearings? __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd)

10-25-2009, 08:59 PM	#25 (permalink)
dhardison TEAM Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Delaware, OH Posts: 569	Re: Short block - forged or cast? Well, I worked out a "SMOKIN' HOT" deal with the seller and drove to MI today to get the short block. It appears to be a very well assembled, balanced assembly with high-quality forged rods & pistons. I'm going to look in to swapping out the factory main bolts for ARP studs, but other than that it's good to go. I measured the bore and it's .007" over (85mm). Here are some pics: http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04260_sm.JPG http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04261_sm.JPG http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04262_sm.JPG http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04263_sm.JPG http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04264_sm.JPG http://www.danhardison.com/focus/sho...SC04265_sm.JPG I can't wait to get this installed and a turbo pushing boost through it! Dan __________________ '00 ZX3 ITE/STU SCCA race car (PWSC'd)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode